O/A outfits

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OK I've been reading a lot of old posts and the majority of you say its best to learn O/A welding to fully grasp all aspects of the art, Correct?I have used O/A before but strictly for cutting, I had planed on getting a setup down the road. After reading different threads in here I think I will try and acquire one sooner then later!Now from what I gather most go with  Victor  for the ease of part availability, but the Harris and Smith work well also.Since I am just starting out and will do the work that I have before me with the MiG I am getting, should I go all out and by the higher priced sets or is something along the lines of a victor advantage II or a Super Ranger II Van Guard OK?I guess what I'm asking is will a set like that be a good foundation, slowly acquiring more as I go?I want to get into more decorative welding in the long run and I can totally see a O/A setup(and being able to use it properly) being not just an advantage but a necessity.ThanksLast edited by stumpster; 04-03-2006 at 12:55 AM.
Reply:I'm not going to sit here and agree with the idea that you need to start out with O/A to learn welding.    I simply don't buy the arguements presented.    Invest in an OxY outfit when you think you will need it, if it doesn't fit into your projeced usage then the investment is a waste of money.    You say you have already made that determination so this whole paragraph might be considered a waste.    Now if you really do decide ythat you need an Oxy outfit then go to your local supplier of welding equipment and see what they have to offer.    To me it is a bit foolish to try to support an activity like welding with stuff purchased on line or 100's of miles from your location.   Get a good relationship going with the local weld shop, if it is a good shop there will be atleast one good torch system to choose from.If you are going to be doing a lot of decorative or art type work I'd also have to suggest that looking at the cost of O/A verses other heating systems may be in order.    In other words consider gas fired (propane, natural or whatever) forges for heating of metal prior to forming.   This is where I see you needing a torch system the most, that is heating of metal for forming. bending and whacking with a hammer.   Heck even a coal fired forge might be in order.   The idea of course is to find the low cost approach that will work with your expected projects.   There is also the reality that new technology might be a better fit, here we might talk about a plasma cutting system.So I'd say reflect a bit before jumping in.   You may find you don't need the O/A system at all or that a cutting torch is all you need.ThanksDave
Reply:personally,  id go with the set.  However, mind you the journeyman, for example is a large torch designed for large work.  Mostly indusrial work.  You can judge the size  you need based on what they are readily set to cut and weld with tips included.  Then you can also add tips.  of larger size.  The torch should spell out what the thickest you can cut and weld is with additonal tips.  Additonal tips are cheaper than to move to the next size bigger toch.  Also, the smaller torch maybe better suited for doing artistic work.   Funny how a brazed joint can be done so easily with a small torch, but to use a big torch can be a challenge.  The larger torches are geared around thicker materials.  Mostly I guess for the cutting purposes.  BUt then I don tknow.  You dont want your hand up close to where youre cutting when youre cutting say 1 inch plate.  But if youre brazing wings on a fairy the size of your stretched out hand,  well your hand will be too far away from your tip to be capable of good control.  Anyway, my opinion is the set is good if you want the capability of brazing, which much art work is.  HEating can be done in a forge, but so can useing a cut torch as long as you dont bump that oxygen lever.  Good luck, let us know what you deciede onIF it Catches...Let it Burn
Reply:First off thanks for the replies and you both have very good points.if it is a good shop there will be atleast one good torch system to choose from.
Reply:I don't know how "good" this comment is ,but, i have 2 Victor  journeyman Combination torches , some rosebuds for them ,a full set of tips( Cutting) for them , and a super range set -Combo; & a super range cutting (only) torch . The super range cutting torch is the only one I use. The rest only sit in reserve ,in case my favorite breaks & has to be sent out for repair . (happened once in 25 years . ) The super range & copies can use 000-# 2 tips. The tips i use most are #00,0, & 1; all cutting tips.Oh, i also have some welding tips(and a small rosebud)  for the super range combo torch, only time i use them is for brasing (only occasionly ).I guess i am saying the super range is nice (&NOT huge)
Reply:Originally Posted by stumpsterFirst off thanks for the replies and you both have very good points. That is one of my biggest problems, use to be farm & ranch country but now has become all tourist based. The only place left around me that has anything gouges the crap out of ya and they usually have every thing you don't need( I,m left with HD& Lowes). I am all for the little guy but when the little guy isn't for me then.
Reply:Don't forget you will also need a set of bottles.  Check on them when pricing your torch.  As a general rule buying will be cheaper than renting or leasing. I recommend you get the largest bottle you can rent ( or manage to xport ). The fills on the larger bottles are only a small amount over the fills on small bottles.  If you need to hold bottle cost down you should be able to buy a smaller bottle now and then trade up when you need a fill. The trade in should be at full value.DennisThermal Arc 185-TSWMillermatic Challenger 172VictorO/AAtlas Craftsman 12 by 24 LatheEsab PCM-875Wholesalem Tool Mill-Drill
Reply:Well I thank you guys for the help!  I have been kicking it around quite a bit and have decided to hold off on the setup for a little while(those darn priorities). I have however decided to go with the Super Ranger II when I get one and try to pick up a used J28 for fine work(just missed one on ebay).I have found a lot of info on home built forges, and I can still get coal near by so I think I will start there. I have been trying to find info on building a used oil fired forge, but not as much info on it as I would think.Anyways thanks again"Lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine"However "lack of planning on my part may constitute an emergency on yours"
Reply:StumpsterSeems like you are trying to be a traditionalist.  I like to o/a weld, though with Mig I do not think one should limit themselves o/a.  It is a time consuming process and I use Mig to tack things prior to using o/a anyway.  Also o/a is expensive to use for everything-cutting,bending,welding,heating.  Get large tanks, larger than 80cf oxygen or 75cf acetylene.   I use an O/A torch quite a bit.  I use it primarily for welding.  I use oxy/propane for cutting, if things are not too thick or can be rough.  Porpane is a lot cheaper than acetylene.    I use a homemade propane forge with a homemade burner for  light forging.  The burner cost about $15 plus fire bricks.  I arrange the brick to fit the shape of the item.  It is not near maximimum efficiency, however I have used it for 4 years and it has done well.  I have made a brake drum forge worked well, though getting the "proper" coal is difficult around here. There are plenty of sites that deal with making charcoal.Google: Porpane forge, Reilforge, brake drum forge, making charcoal, www.anvilfire.com...    Good luck
Reply:Well I guess I was meant to have a o/a outfit! I was talking to my neighbor today and he said He has extra tanks and some older gauges, torch, all I would need is hose, I can use as long as I want!  I am still going to setup a forge, not sure what type. I like the the gas ones, but I think I want to keep it simple and low cost to start, then when I get more efficient and focused  I can go from there. Anvilfire is a great siteThanks againLast edited by stumpster; 04-09-2006 at 02:38 AM."Lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine"However "lack of planning on my part may constitute an emergency on yours"
Reply:Stump,just curious,  why the super range II.I am looking at getting a good torch set of my own.  Ive had torches in the past, some cheap-0.  I dint like it.   Used the torch from the shop instead.  Used my bro-laws propane rig a bit too, much cheaper than acetylene.  However, I am finally gonna get a good victor set up.  Lookin at the super range, super range II, contractor, journeyman.  I did like the super range and super range II.  Wht was the selling point for you?  I know you ended up getting this other rig so point moot but...for my own knowledge.ThanksIF it Catches...Let it Burn
Reply:Stump,just curious, why the super range II
Reply:thanks stumpsterIF it Catches...Let it Burn