Welding Steel to Cast Iron - Beginner

admin

HelpI'm working on my car and have to weld a steel axle tube to an iron center housing.  what is the correct procedure to do this.  Can I do it myself.  This is not a professional drag racing car.  Just a saturday night cruiser.I have a 120 amp MIG welder with steel wire in it now.  I was told to change to a Nickel wire.  Do you agree.Your suggestions please.thanks.lee
Reply:what grade steel is the axle? A36? that would matter too.I've had luck using inconel (has nickle in it) rod welding cracked cast iron... preheating is part of the key but so is the cool down rate... need to have a slow cool down rate with cast...certainly not something I would let a beginner welder try to tackle... I'll talk to the QC manager (welding guru) at work and see what he has to sayTennessee Squire Association
Reply:You are pushing the axle tube into the iron housing right?  And "plug welding" it through the holes in the iron housing to the steel right?  If so I think that is a decidedly low-tech welding process, just stick a rod in the hole and melt the whole mess together, at least that is how it was explained to me.  The close fit of the tube inside the housing is what holds the thing together and the welds just keep it from working loose.  I could be wrong on that though.Birken
Reply:I've personaly welded steel to cast and the best is using nickle rod with no pre heat and peenining your passes so they expand while cooling, keep passes small so heat does not build up.If you have any questions see your weld supply distributor He should have a book for the rod he carries and it aint cheap!
Reply:I'm no car mechanic, but it would seem to me that if the weld is structural enough to where the nickel wire makes a difference, than that machine is probably too weak to get enough penetration anyway.I'm hoping the Birken Vogt is right about the welds just being for holding a slipped fit together, in which case, I would still recommend .035" flux-cored wire for the best penetration and contaminant tolerance.Hiring someone to do the work with the proper equipment and experience is probably not much more expensive than buying nickel wire.
Reply:I take it you are welding to the differential housing.  I welded on one of those with my tig machine.  I don't remember what the make was, (it was on a trailer) but it welded nicely.  I think it was cast steel.  I think it is possible most of these housings are cast steel.  I bet somebody knows for sure.
Reply:Originally Posted by MAC702I'm no car mechanic, but it would seem to me that if the weld is structural enough to where the nickel wire makes a difference, than that machine is probably too weak to get enough penetration anyway.I'm hoping the Birken Vogt is right about the welds just being for holding a slipped fit together, in which case, I would still recommend .035" flux-cored wire for the best penetration and contaminant tolerance.Hiring someone to do the work with the proper equipment and experience is probably not much more expensive than buying nickel wire.
Reply:guysthanks to all of your for your prompt and detailed responses.  I will consider each and every one of them before moving forward.Lee
Reply:Brazing would certainly work well.  Pick an alloy with good capillary action.  It would be stronger than welding.  However, welding should also be acceptable, isn't that how the factory did it?  Brazing will create a more even heat input and lessen the cance of warping the tube and center section.
Reply:What rear end is it? I believe most of these are cast steel. I'm familiar with doing the 8.8 Ford as used in the Mustang. Most guys just MIG these. The factory plug welds are weak and will allow the tube to spin in the housing if the horse power gets high enough. The technique they use is to weld 1" or less at a time. Immediately after the first weld they go to the opposite side and set up the next weld so it ends 180 degrees opposite of the end of the previous weld. The last portion of the weld shrinks the most. Ending the welds opposite creates a situation where the stress is equal and there is no warping. Then allow it to cool for a while before repeating the process until the joint is welded complete. Here are some links I just found.http://www.4x4wire.com/jeep/tech/axle/ford8_8/http://www.modulardepot.com/?show=articlesdet&aid=14
Reply:stick it with some 7024.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterstick it with some 7024.....zap!
Reply:it can be done my friend...slowley....but it can be done  and they tell me 7018 cant be done sideways either ...zap!Last edited by zapster; 10-11-2006 at 05:17 PM.I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Zapster ! ! ! WHo says a 7018 won't weld side ways ? ? ?  ROFLMAO now i have heard it all.... key word (1) all position rod.... LOL.... OOOO KKKKMikeHH210Hobart Champ 10KLincoln Buzz BoxCampbell Hausfeld 115Victor JourneymanMilwaukee 14" Chop Saw7" Chop Saw4/12" horz band sawmetal benderother toys forthcoming.
Reply:Can someone translate what the heck crenshawjm said above "ROFLMAO" what is that...Instant Messaging language?
Reply:Originally Posted by 383bigblockCan someone translate what the heck crenshawjm said above "ROFLMAO" what is that...Instant Messaging language?
Reply:I've heard it all now! If it is cast steel weld with 7018 done it before with no problems. And Zap have you tried knocking the flux off of nickle rod and cleaning with an abrasive pad then tigging the cast? I've never done it but I hear it works really well.
Reply:Weld a little at a time and peck it with a hammer after each pass.  Supposed to relieve stess in the cast if I remember correctly.DewayneDixieland WeldingMM350PLincoln 100Some torchesOther misc. tools
Reply:Originally Posted by crenshawjmZapster ! ! ! WHo says a 7018 won't weld side ways ? ? ?  ROFLMAO now i have heard it all.... key word (1) all position rod.... LOL.... OOOO KKKK
Reply:Hi,I think you will find the "Cast" section is cast steel not cast iron. You can test material by sparking (grinding) to determine the material. I've done many of these jobs and as some of the others have recommended I've used 7018. Since the tubes are pressed into the cast steel you are simply pinning the tubes in position by welding in the relief holes in the housing. Follow the suggestion given  by a previous respondent that said to work (weld) in one spot and then 180 opposite to counteract the pulling that will occur.Most of these jobs are performed on the floor or bench so the positioning can be adjusted to suit the operator. If you are doing this in the vehicle still follow the stagger recommendation and watch the heat so you don't ruin the lube or seals from to much heat build up. It's a smelly job but someone has to weld rear ends.  ric
Reply:Sorry Zap, but 7024 ???Out of all the choices of stick rod, why 7024?Have you actually used this vertical up or down, or overhead? And why would you even try?Gus_Mahn is absolutely correct, 7024 is designed for flat and horizontal position, that's what the 2 stands for.http://www.esabna.com/EUWeb/AWTC/Lesson3_10.htmI guess there is nothing wrong with suggesting 7024 for out-of-position welding, except that it is much too fluid to actually function well in this capacity, and there a several other better choices.  No problem, except I feel sorry for the frustrated newbie with 7024 dripping down his sleeve.I'm not trying to shut down any creative ideas here, you know maybe you could use 7024 as a TIG filler, but Leejoy started this post with a valid and serious question.
Reply:When welding an axle, it is most likely to be rolling around on the shop floor, therefore it can be welded in flat position.Birken
Reply:Birkin,OK, it makes perfect sense to weld the axle in the flat position, I'm just ranting on about this statement regarding out-of-position welding with 7024....[QUOTE=zapster]it can be done my friend...slowley....but it can be done
Reply:your better off making a strap or something that can be bolted
Reply:Originally Posted by Birken VogtWhen welding an axle, it is most likely to be rolling around on the shop floor, therefore it can be welded in flat position.BirkenI have played axle builder when I was young and foolish (I still am, but not as bad) and 8018, or 11018 was my rod of choice for tube to housing while preheating the housing. Now I would probally TIG the tube to the housing with 309L wire and pre heat the housing to 250-300(maiking sure that there were no bearings or seals present) using a tempstick as a guide. I don't want to sound like a hack, but shortening, widening, or offsetting an axle is not rocket science like some people make it out to be(They just want your money, by scaring you in to sending it out to them). Patientce is key as well as measure, measure, measure. I havent built a Dana 60 in some time but I have one under the bench for my Jeep just calling my name. Don't be scared and just do it. Thats my 2 cents.Last edited by TozziWelding; 10-17-2006 at 09:16 PM.Disclaimer; "I am just an a$$hole welder, don't take it personally ."
Reply:Originally Posted by TozziWeldingI have played axle builder when I was young and foolish (I still am, but not as bad) and 8018, or 11018 was my rod of choice for tube to housing while preheating the housing. Now I would probally TIG the tube to the housing with 309L wire and pre heat the housing to 250-300(maiking sure that there were no bearings or seals present) using a tempstick as a guide. I don't want to sound like a hack, but shortening, widening, or offsetting an axle is not rocket science like some people make it out to be(They just want your money, by scaring you in to sending it out to them). Patientce is key as well as measure, measure, measure. I havent built a Dana 60 in some time but I have one under the bench for my Jeep just calling my name. Don't be scared and just do it. Thats my 2 cents.
Reply:8018? 11018? come on tozzi is the parent metal that high in tensile strength? I doubt that it is. A good welder knows you don't go over the tensile strength of th parent metal! It can be the same or less in tensile strength as, for 309L why? Stainless rod is ok for unknown materials but if you know what it is there is no need. As many have posted before if it is cast steel weld with 7018 or mig with a 70 series wire.
Reply:I said thats what I used to use back in high school, because the teacher said it worked better than 6011, and wouldnt crack. I would use 309 now because of unknown materials, and it is stronger than silicone bronze.Disclaimer; "I am just an a$$hole welder, don't take it personally ."
Reply:Not being a welding expert but having seen a couple of these done. Mig it and phaghettaboutit.