Best way to start welding?

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hi, i am new here.  i am looking to get into a little car restoration, and i was wondering how i could start welding.  this is something i have always wanted to learn, i would be commited to this 100%, and i am very eager to start.  can anybody point me in the right direction?
Reply:well, the way I learned before I took some classes in school...: have any friends that weld..?  family members..??In school learned stick, mig... learning TIG on my own.
Reply:i go to a small private school, and we dont have any type of shop classes   i do not have any family members that do it.  i dont really know anybody in the industry either.  i didnt really get a chance to read around this forum. are there any pages or threads worth looking at?
Reply:Read up on the particular type of welding you'd like to learn. Both Miller and Lincoln have great educational resources. This should get you started: www.millerwelds.com/educationOnce you read that, go ahead and start pricing a unit that is within your budget. Buy it, get it set up, get some consumables and fire away. The nice thing with metal is you can't mess it up. If you think your weld is bad, grind it down, do it again!John -  fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!-  bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:For what it's worth, in my opinion one of the best ways to start is with an oxy/acyt torch & a welding tip. It's a cheap, easy way to learn about creating & manipulating a "puddle". Once you've mastered creating a puddle & mocing it across a sheet of steel (14 ga. is a good starting point), you can move onto fusion, and butt welding. Learn the basics of puddle control, and penetration and you'll be way ahead of the game on every other type of process you learn. Good Luck. & have fun, Adam
Reply:i already looked at the one on the miller site, but thank you.  i was actually thinking of getting oxy/acet torch.  how much do the cylinders cost?  price is also a factor, i dont have a whole lot of money.  i was also thinking of getting a cheap MIG welder from Harbor Freight and just messing around with it.
Reply:Cheap MIG from HF is your best bet. An O/A setup can get expensive, even buying the cheap torch and gauges. The O/A bottle and Acetalyne are pricey.John -  fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!-  bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:that was exactly what i was trying to say haha.  i priced it out just now and i figure i can do it all for around $200.  i was also going to invest in a high-quality angle grinder, so the total cost would be around $350.
Reply:You could lease the bottles (or have your parents do so) and find a good used torch set on craigslist maybe?I started with O/A, a lot of us did. You can always sell your O/A torches without much loss if you don't like/need it and want to try something else.OTOH, a cheap mig from HF will get you going. For $110 or so (They had a reconditioned 150 amp model ready for gas not long ago) you can't get close to a Lincoln or Hobart.Read read read, everything you can.Craftsman 230a Buzz-box,  Lincoln 140T & 180T, Century K2789, PUROX W202 O/A14" cheapo chop saw that cuts straight and square!A toolbox of the cheapest Chinese tools money can buy"Real" tools all old reliable Husky/Craftsman/Proto stuff
Reply:i have been reading everything i can possibly find on this forum and other websites.  i am fully aware that a welder from HF will not be anywhere near as good as Lincoln or Miller.  should i get a flux-cored one or one that is ready for gas?
Reply:Don't forget to use a discount coupon for HF.If you mig you will still need to lease a bottle.
Reply:but all the welders on HF are flux cored.  and how much do bottles run?
Reply:Personally I would go for the Smith Med Duty OA torch kit on Ebay, rent some OA bottles,  get some rods, and pay a CL welder for an afternoon (4 hours or so) introduction since you dont have any connections.  Maybe look at your local Community College for a intro course as well.  This would kit you out with a cutting torch as well as a great welding system that will prepare you for MANY great things.To what I understand the step from OA to TIG is easy.  You'll also need a helmet and a grinder (also available at HF if you need to go super inexpensive).This is how I would do it if I really wanted to learn how to weld (rather than just stick metal to metal).  I too was seduced by MIG, but learned from numerous sources that most people learn MIG precisely because they dont want to learn how to actually weld.  They are looking for the "easiest" path to joining metals, and they get slack once they learn the minimum.  Welding is ALOT more complicated than that...just look at some of our pros around here!The only reason I posted is because I too was in the same shoes as you just months ago! Keep us posted!Oh yeah, the HF 20% off coupon is killer!  Just got a $55 bench grinder for $19 today!  I felt like a thief walking outta there!  "Quick honey, get in the car...in the car!".Last edited by DirtyLittleSecret; 02-24-2007 at 12:15 AM.ThermalArc 185MillerMatic 180 w/ AutosetVictor Cutskill Oxy/AcetyleneThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 38and spite!
Reply:pearl where do you live, someone here on this forum may be willing to show you how to weld. i myself, live in charleston, sc. i love to show people how to weld and do it often. so let us know. as far as which welder to buy, go to HD or lowes and get a mig welder. you can run gas on the small welders, but be reminded, they aren't for welding big stuff. but they are great for learning, my 13yo cousin has had one for a year now and he is wanting to upgrade to a mm180. this does increase his capacity from 1/8 to 5/16. should be more than enough for him."Retreat hell, were just fighting in the other direction"Miller Trailblazer 302, Extreme 12 VS, Dimension 400, Spectrum 375, HF 251D-1, Milermatic 251 w/ spoolgun  Hypertherm 1000Lincoln sp 1702000 F-450 to haul it
Reply:i was going to get a DeWalt grinder.  i dont want to mess around with any cheap "get me started" power tools.  it sounds like the two options are to either get an o/a setup, or a cheap MIG welder.  here's what i am thinking:-doing o/a now will make it easier for me to TIG in the future-o/a setup is expensive.-buying a cheap MIG welder will not break my bank-MIG welding now will make it harder for me to TIG in the future
Reply:Originally Posted by Pearl2881 i dont want to mess around with any cheap "get me started" power tools.
Reply:Originally Posted by Pearl2881that was exactly what i was trying to say haha.  i priced it out just now and i figure i can do it all for around $200.  i was also going to invest in a high-quality angle grinder, so the total cost would be around $350.
Reply:i forgot to say that i was going to get the grinder as a present for my dad.  he was going to buy one but bought a new table saw instead.  actually that idea will have to wait because i just got off the phone with my sister and she said she has a grinder that i can have.
Reply:If you are planning on using flux core with your wire feeder, then why not go with a >80 amp DC inverter stick/tig.  Going that route would allow you to weld with stick without any accessories.  Later, you can do some light tig by adding a tank.  Those inverter also small <10lbs. and easy to carry around and store.  You can purchase them for about $300.  You also can get less spatter with stick than straight flux core.
Reply:Here is my 2 cents worth. If you are trying to learn basic welding and your interests are in autobody restoration, than the mig welder is what you want. I would spend most of your money their. I never used any of the harbor freight migs but I wouldn't by a flux core wire only welder. I think, and this is only my opinion here, that the best part of a mig welder is lost when using flux core wire. This would be mostly sheet metal and light frame work areas that I am referring to. Flux core does have it place. I think all gas mig welders are able to run flux core wire if needed.I do a fare amount of autobody repairs and the mig is my main welder. I have a tig now but just getting going with it and it is a little more to learn on than a mig. with a mig, grinder, a good set of tin snips and some autobody hammers, you can do allot of work without braking the bank. Hope this helps and have fun.Miller DVI2Lincoln Precision Tig 225Thermodynamics Cutmaster 38Everything else needed.
Reply:is flux-cored wedling different than MIG welding?  if there arent many differences, would getting a flux-cored only welder still be worth it?  what is a cheap MIG to buy if i dont get the one from HF?
Reply:Originally Posted by Pearl2881is flux-cored wedling different than MIG welding?  if there arent many differences, would getting a flux-cored only welder still be worth it?  what is a cheap MIG to buy if i dont get the one from HF?
Reply:Sandy has said it prefectly. Hard wire with either CO2 or C25 ( 75%Argon/25%CO2 ) is the way to go for sheet metal and autobody work. With this type of welding their is no flux in the weld. this leaves a better weld for grinding down and preping for painting. Cleaner weld for this type of application. You will need to get a contract for a bottle and gas for this type of welding. Not sure on prices in the US but you shouls be able to find a good mig welder for 300.00 to 500.00 that will do the trick and about 100.00 for the bottle contract with gas. I think I read somewhere on theis site that you can get the lincoln SP135T mig welder for not much more than 300.00, I will try to find it. When you decide on what type of welder you want. You can start a post looking for that type and hear reviews on what people like or dislike about them and where you might get a good price on one.Miller DVI2Lincoln Precision Tig 225Thermodynamics Cutmaster 38Everything else needed.
Reply:my history teacher is actually the one who got me started in cars.  he doesnt do a whole lot of body work, he usually pays someone else to do it.  he told me that a MIG would probably be the best type of welder for car restoration.  i think that to start off i'll get the el-cheapo flux cored from Harbor Freight.  like i said, i dont have a whole lot of money to start off with, only around $300 for a welder, helmet, and gloves.  the o/a torch sounds too expensive.  i hope the flux cored will give me a good foundation for when i actually start body work.  eventually i'll probably get a Millermatic 210 or 251.  but i am still a little hung up on the bottles.  do you buy the bottle yourself and have it filled, or do you rent it, or is it illegal for people to "own" bottles; what exactly is the deal with this, and what would the rates be if i wanted to lease or buy them?
Reply:Originally Posted by SandyIt is the way in which the shielding gases are derived. Common flux core (FCAW) provides shielding gases through the burning of the special powder mixtures carefully packaged inside the wire itself. What is often referred to as MIG (GMAW) uses a solid wire and provides shielding gases via external tanks, tubes and valves. FCAW achieves a higher rate of penetration, per wire size, and under most circumstances is not affected by winds and breezes. GMAW ususally provides a little less penetration, per wire size, more deposition per inch of wire but is fairly sensitive to light breezes as those tend to blow the shielding gas away.  For auto body work GMAW is the better choice. There are some relatively low priced used GMAW units out there on on the net if a guy is really serious. Run flux core in the same unit when needed. Best of both worlds.Many welding stores only sell smaller (55 cubic foot or less) cylinders. You buy a bottle (from craigslist.org for example or wherever you can find one) and take it to your LWS (local welding supply). You leave your tank and take home a filled tank. Costs are all over the place, but figure on paying $20-50 for a fillup. You get 1-3 hours of welding time from a tank like I mentioned. That's actual laying a bead/making sparks time.The other option is to lease a large tank (80 cubic feet and up) from your LWS. You pay a yearly lease fee. You never own the tank. Over many years you end up getting hosed. Fillups work the same as a small tank. You drop off the tank and pick up a full one, pay and go home. You only pay a bit more to fill the larger tanks but get A LOT more gas.Smaller tanks are easier to handle and transport. Bigger tanks cost less per cubic foot to fill.If you want to weld a variety of materials you'll want a tank for each group of materials. Leasing multiple tanks gets expensive pretty fast.Buying multiple small tanks isn't cheap either. So it's your call.In all likelihood you'd be fine with a single tank of argon/co2 mix for what you want to do. Your choice to buy or lease.Now, onto migs. If HF says their model XYZ mig is gas capable that doesn't mean it's gas ready.You need a regulator that mounts on the bottle to feed gas into the mig torch. Not all starter migs include the regulator. My LWS sells a "universal" regulator and hookup hose for $40.It's best to ask the seller exactly what their welder needs to use gas.I hope this info helps.Craftsman 230a Buzz-box,  Lincoln 140T & 180T, Century K2789, PUROX W202 O/A14" cheapo chop saw that cuts straight and square!A toolbox of the cheapest Chinese tools money can buy"Real" tools all old reliable Husky/Craftsman/Proto stuff
Reply:^^thank you that helped a lot.  so, if you buy a tank, you own it, but you kind of trade it around when you get it refilled?  would a plumbing supply be able to fill these tanks?  would one of these tanks be suitable?http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/w...7979_200317979
Reply:One caution if you choose to use flux-core for welding autobody patch panels;  be sure the welder's minimum amperage is not so high as to cause burnthroughs in your metal.  Flux-core has deeper penetrating characteristics than hard wire mig.Yes, that Northern Tool bottle is OK.  Don't forget to add the shipping costs.  You might save by buying at your LWS.WeldingWeb forum--now more sophomoric banter than anything else!
Reply:Yeah, i was looking around and i founf that there is a WS about 25 miles from my house, and it looks like they carry a LOT.
Reply:anybody have anything else worth noting?
Reply:Maybe call the LWS near you and ask if they fill bottles they don't own or didn't sell you. Sometimes they are picky. Check their prices against the prices you found, that's if they sell bottles.Craftsman 230a Buzz-box,  Lincoln 140T & 180T, Century K2789, PUROX W202 O/A14" cheapo chop saw that cuts straight and square!A toolbox of the cheapest Chinese tools money can buy"Real" tools all old reliable Husky/Craftsman/Proto stuff
Reply:Originally Posted by Pearl2881hi, i am new here.  i am looking to get into a little car restoration, and i was wondering how i could start welding.  this is something i have always wanted to learn, i would be commited to this 100%, and i am very eager to start.  can anybody point me in the right direction?
Reply:Mj,Good words. For non-pro welders it's really a love of the craft isn't it? All my friends and family get free welding and always will until I can't lift a torch or gun anymore.Craftsman 230a Buzz-box,  Lincoln 140T & 180T, Century K2789, PUROX W202 O/A14" cheapo chop saw that cuts straight and square!A toolbox of the cheapest Chinese tools money can buy"Real" tools all old reliable Husky/Craftsman/Proto stuff
Reply:Gad, I wish you guys were around here!ThermalArc 185MillerMatic 180 w/ AutosetVictor Cutskill Oxy/AcetyleneThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 38and spite!
Reply:Originally Posted by MJDamianiThere are many welding "schools of thought" . Do you just want to join 2 pieces of metals, or do you want to know why they join, the heat effected zone, the composition of metals and how to join metal properly ?  30 years ago I asked a weldor (not welder ) to show me how to weld in our lunch hour. The the properties of different metals and other variables came into play. I did great welds that looked bad and bad welds the looked good. The best thing that I ever did was to sign up for a Oxy/acet. welding course. I got to see the molten metal bond together with the filler rod just feeding the crater left buy the metal melting together. I was so simple that I was ashamed for not knowing this in the first place.  Gas ( ox/ac) taught me how to be better at SMAW (stick), GTAW-FCAW, and TIG.  Sometimes,I just gas weld things like mild steel just because I can, and love to do it. When I do so it looks just like a TIG job.Keep in mind that I weld because I love to weld as a stress relief. I do many favors welding and I have never made a dime from my welding. My gas, my electricity, my years of experience, my consumables, and my hours of schooling, both learning and teaching have been for free.    SO FAR,  SO GOOD.Mike