Dont know what type of metal?

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Hey all, kinda new here long time lurker but just now posting.  Anyway my question is this, I am wanting to weld a sump onto my factory gas tank.  I do not know what type of metal either piece is.  Any suggestions on how I go about figuring this out or welding it together with out knowing?  In the instructions with the sump it gives a warning about welding galvanized can put off fumes that are dangerous.  Also the sump is built/designed to be welded on a gas tank.  I have a synchrowave 200 and was planning on tig welding it.  Any help or insight would be greatly appreciated.
Reply:I'm gonna guess that your factory is probably steel.  Is the sump painted, coated, shiney, galv. looking (does it look like guard rails you see on the side of the road)?  Certainly be careful welding on a gas tank.  You have looked into procedures for doing this, right?DewayneDixieland WeldingMM350PLincoln 100Some torchesOther misc. tools
Reply:Good luck, gas tanks are thin. As always, use extreme caution.  STEAM clean the tank before even thinking about welding to it.  It aint worth dying over.Tank is probably galvanized.  It needs to be ground or etched off before you will have any luck welding to it.  I welded an exhaust tube in the bottom center of a galvanized bucket.  The bucket was so thin I ended up brazing it in.  This is my rod holder.  Rods in the center, butts, chipping hammer... in the space left not used by the tube in the center.A 110 volt mig would be easiest with .023 wire and C25.Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Back away from the tank..Do not attempt.. I personally know people that were burned bad trying to do something like that.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Originally Posted by Crusader_9xHey all, kinda new here long time lurker but just now posting.  Anyway my question is this, I am wanting to weld a sump onto my factory gas tank.  I do not know what type of metal either piece is.  Any suggestions on how I go about figuring this out or welding it together with out knowing?  In the instructions with the sump it gives a warning about welding galvanized can put off fumes that are dangerous.  Also the sump is built/designed to be welded on a gas tank.  I have a synchrowave 200 and was planning on tig welding it.  Any help or insight would be greatly appreciated.
Reply:Originally Posted by Crusader_9x  I do not know what type of metal either piece is.
Reply:I won't even weld near a gas tank but to each his own.If you have to weld on that tank, empty it and get it boiled out at a radiator shop . . . if you like living.Here's a quick article on some of the basics once you are POSITIVE it is clean enough inside that it won't puff or explode.  Don't want to discourage you but just as you start the arc, will you be POSITIVE as to what will happen in the next instant . . . or not?http://www.hotrod.com/howto/70438_ga...eld/index.htmlHere's another idea: http://www.atlfuelcells.com/  Buy one from a shop that does tanks all day, every day and be done with it.Good luck with it.
Reply:Hey, thanks for the responses and safety concerns.  I have already done alot of reading on this subject and do plan on thoroughly cleaning the tank as I like living.   Ok idiot here, just checked the website and they said its made of cold rolled steel.  I have a 110 mig welder with either .25 or .30 wire and c25 mix gas if that will be better?  Again I know there are safety concerns here and some people would rather not do this.  ThanksLast edited by Crusader_9x; 04-03-2007 at 04:30 PM.
Reply:You can also flow CO2, or another inert gas in it while you're welding,  BUT, I also agree-- start with a new tank, or make a new tank! It ain't worth taking a chance! Plus, you can probably design and make a cooler looking tank anyway!-----------------------john
Reply:A new tank would be best. If there is any more than light suface rust you won't have much to work with.steam cleaning is a must in my opinion and I would purge it with CO2 or inert gas. Most replacement tanks are gavanized steel but some older OEM are made of terne plate. Terne plate is soft iron coated with solder on both sides. The idea was that there would be less of a chance of getting a spark if the tank was punctured. Either type I'd sand the coating off and mig weld it. I used to steam oil field tanks that needed repairs. We had are ways of telling how much steaming was enough but we always backed that up with a combustable gas detector. We'd do semi fuel tanks and a few aircraft tanks too. I grew up in oil country and lived there until I was 22, my family still lives there and I never known of anyone that that was hurt welding a properly steamed tank checked with a combustable gas detector. Any other way is relying on luck in my opinion.
Reply:I have a 110 mig welder with either .25 or .30 wire and c25 mix gas if that will be better?
Reply:I don't care...I still dont like this  at all.. ...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:I've welded up diesel tanks before with no problem.  They were just rinsed out with water.  But that's a different situation.DewayneDixieland WeldingMM350PLincoln 100Some torchesOther misc. tools
Reply:Crusader,first off please don't take this personally- i don't know you or your abilities but base the following on your initial question...if you don't know how to tell what type of metal the tank is made from and can't recognise galvanizing you DO NOT have enough experience for this job.after making it safe you will need to be able to produce porous free sound welds in 0.8-1.0mm (0.030-0.040") thick steel- maybe less by the time rust/coatings have been removed. you will also need to make some fittings to enable the finished tank to be leak tested- seal up all openings, pressurise to 3 or 4 psi and then go over all seams with soapy waterwhy the need for a sump anyway? starvation due to fuel surge? if so what about adding a swirl pot- cheap to buy or easy to make and no need to cut and weld your tank.
Reply:I've been welding for over 25 years.  I won't do gas tanks.  Diesel, yes; gasoline, no.  Don't care how long it's been out of the car either.There are ways to do it.  I don't care to do it all, and you can't compromise them.  That's my input.
Reply:Originally Posted by MAC702I've been welding for over 25 years.  I won't do gas tanks.  Diesel, yes; gasoline, no.  Don't care how long it's been out of the car either.There are ways to do it.  I don't care to do it all, and you can't compromise them.  That's my input.
Reply:You guys that flat refuse to do gas tanks, I'm curious- would you have the same concerns on a brand new tank?I just paid a radiator shop to do mine last spring, and they soldered the sump on to my old tank.  Once it was all said and done, it would have been cheaper to have bought a brand new tank and I could have done the work myself.  I would have felt safe doing the work myself- even though I don't have the experience you guys have- if it was a new tank.  I'd never weld (or have a flame/arc of any kind) near a gasoline tank myself.  It's not worth the risk.Hobart Stickmate LX AC/DC, Millermatic 252 & 30A spoolgun, Thermal Arc 185 TIG, Miller BWESmith Oxy-AcBridgeport 2J , South Bend 42" 9AHusky 7.5 HP 22.3 CFM 80 gal compressor
Reply:there's no explosive risk with a new tank and far less prep needed- a quicker/cheaper and more importantly safer deal.i still don't get the sump thing though  a much better solution IMO would be to build a new tank from scratch and baffle it properly- addresses the problem not the symptom
Reply:If it's a new tank, it's not YET a gas tank...
Reply:[QUOTE=hotrodder]Crusader,first off please don't take this personally- i don't know you or your abilities but base the following on your initial question...if you don't know how to tell what type of metal the tank is made from and can't recognise galvanizing you DO NOT have enough experience for this job.This pretty much covers it!-------------john
Reply:Originally Posted by hotrodderCrusader,first off please don't take this personally- i don't know you or your abilities but base the following on your initial question...if you don't know how to tell what type of metal the tank is made from and can't recognise galvanizing you DO NOT have enough experience for this job.after making it safe you will need to be able to produce porous free sound welds in 0.8-1.0mm (0.030-0.040") thick steel- maybe less by the time rust/coatings have been removed. you will also need to make some fittings to enable the finished tank to be leak tested- seal up all openings, pressurise to 3 or 4 psi and then go over all seams with soapy waterwhy the need for a sump anyway? starvation due to fuel surge? if so what about adding a swirl pot- cheap to buy or easy to make and no need to cut and weld your tank.
Reply:Please note that when I refered to steaming the tank I do not mean a heated power washer. A true steamer is hotter. The last time I bought a new gas tank it was a little over $100. 24 years ago we had a $100 minimum for steaming. It was a very large steamer and took quite a bit of time deisel to heat it up. I don't think that it would be any cheaper today. That alone would make this a no brainer.