Help! I'm Freakin' Out!!!

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I have this famous multimillionaire on the hook for sixty feet of fancy railing up and around a staircase and landing. The job is three hundred miles away the rails got all the bells and wistles; custom oversized wood top rail, baskets, everything's heavy, twisted, swaged and scrolled. My faciest job ever but I'm gun shy on pulling the trigger on a big price per foot. I'm freakin' out. The millionaire probably won't blink but frankly, I'm having trouble mentally wrapping my head around acting like I'm worth a ton of money as I've made beans all my life. What's the most you could charge per foot with a straight face to someone with big pockets? I'm so scared I'm gonna screw this up. My family needs this. Should I give a lot of options to spend more money or just a few, or should I just deliver the highball price for delux everything. Anybody got a formula for this sort of situation? Anybody got a clue how rich people think? What mindset do I use to maintain my poker face,anybody know any tricks for that? Also there is the possibilty for more work with this customer so I have to take that into consideration. Any and all opinions on what I should do or what you would do appreciated
Reply:Sit down..Take a deep breath..Look at it this way..Plumbers make almost 100$ an hr..Yes they do..Machine shops charge anywhere from 70 to 100$ per hr..Meet in the middle and tell him 50$ per hr..LABORBut thats from the time you leave your driveway untill the job is done...Sometimes I'll make/repair something that fits in the palm of my hand and wonder "Who in their right mind would pay 100$ for this??"They are out there and they do without batting an eyelash..Game face on..Now get out there and quote!...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Exactly.  Heck $50 p/hr for labor is a STEAL for this kind of work.  Some of my father's cronies are those types (a whole other topic), but they'll drop hundreds of thousands of dollars for silly things.  Unfortunately its usually about bragging rights.  Hell, to them $50 might not be "good enough" or expensive enough for them!If youre good enough that YOU would be satisfied with your job then do it!  Just remember to respect yourself before you think about your price, and get the man a quote!ThermalArc 185MillerMatic 180 w/ AutosetVictor Cutskill Oxy/AcetyleneThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 38and spite!
Reply:Charge For Travel Time Charge  For  Stock Charge For CoumsblesAnd Everything  Else You Will Do  Fine!!!
Reply:That all makes sense. Thank you. I am tempted to up it a bit from fifty though. Life's expensive in Jersey. I was going to go with sixty. What throws me though is when you hear about people getting like forty thousand for a job like this. Whether I ask for fifty or sixty per hour it still only adds up to way under 10 thousand with materials. I see an opportunity to maybe get fifteen or maybe shoot myself in the foot.
Reply:If you don't know what your costs are, how are you ever going to give him a competitive bid?Just figure out what it will cost you to provide whatever it is the customer wants, and then add your profit to that. Have the customer give you a set of drawings or a spec sheet and use that to figure your bid. If they don't know what they want, then tell them you will design something for them and charge for your time.
Reply:Charge millionaires the same as you'd charge poor old me. I'd go materials plus labor per hour. More often than not when a customer wants a job priced by the foot or flat rate he'll be the guy that comes out when the job is half done and want to start changing and adding things. If in doubt about the deluxe everything talk to him ahead of time, make everything clear up front. Millionaires are like any other person if they find out that they got one price and Joe Blow got a cheaper price there won't be any repeat business.If you have a good idea how much time it will take you to weld up X number of feet and the customer knows that any big changes will be priced per hour only then can you price per foot.
Reply:Find out what the competition would charge.  You should know that anyhow.David.Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Like has already been said...Time and Materials. It's all about bragging rights to those with $$$. I wouldn't charge any more than my normal shop rate, with the added expenses of course. I would however use the best materials and take my time insuring everything is as perfect as the best could make it. If YOU'RE up to the task and have the confidence to match skills with the best in the field he won't care about your price. BUT, if one of his cronies gets a nicer piece for less money you'll have some heartburn coming down on you. If you do get the job, step up to the plate with your best. If the customer likes it your name will be circulated around that circle of friends and gravitate out from there. This could be a career making/ending job !! Good Luck, olddad
Reply:If this job is large, will you be able to handle it in a timely manner.  Hence, 60/hour in only enough for yourself.  Bid high.  I think it would be better to miss high than to get it and be too low to profit.  You may miss out on several smaller jobs that would total more than what you would be making if you bid be low.  If it is a long term deal, then you will be tied to completing it.I read a book that said true millionaires, those who worked for there millions, pay for results not for time.  You are selling him the results he wants not your time.  They are not interested in how much time it took for Picasso to to a painting they just want the painting. Be honest and sincere, don't represent yourself as something you are not.   Be honest!  Most wealthy people do seem to lack trust, they expect you to dowhat you say.  Be honest!  Most don't have problems releasing money, they just want you to do what you say.Get pictures or make drawings of what he wants.  Determine the finishes.   Don't under estimate finishing/cleaning time.  Calculate subscontractors and labors.   If you are forging the fab times increases.  Just making jigs to start building will take time.  Fuel prices are up so consider that, also. Hope you get it.  Hope you make lots of money.Last edited by tapwelder; 06-16-2007 at 02:22 PM.
Reply:coming from a different trade, i am a carpenter.  i own my own company, and i can tell you that if you charge the same for everyone it is best.  i bill out $50 an hour;  that is what the market here will bear.  if i am doing work for little ole granny on a fixed income i will work as fast as i can to provide for her an affordable price.  the job is done right, but it is not top shelf...she isn't expecting it to be either.  if the job is for the dr/lawyer that wants to impress his clients and colleages then the job is dealt with with the best materials money can buy, and time is spent making sure everything is perfect.i built a 36 inch vanity for one lady that was built and installed for $150.  the same vanity would cost the same requardless of who bought it, but another guy wanted a 36 inch vanity with all the upgrades and it came in at $600.  the second vanity took more time, and more expensive material.
Reply:Originally Posted by 12,000 DoorsI have this famous multimillionaire on the hook for sixty feet of fancy railing up and around a staircase and landing...  Also there is the possibilty for more work with this customer... so I have to take that into consideration.
Reply:Can't imagine charging one more than another. Like another said the client may want things a little fancier than another and you would spend time making it according to their desires. Make your money on your time, not by trying to stick it to someone who has more money.... that is never professional and sooner or later it will catch up with you.
Reply:Heres my take. You charge him more, more, more. He can afford it. You are stressed. If it is nice he will boast about it and how much he paid. He likes to pay more for stuff because he can. You will do his neighbors house after. I know the guys on here say 50-60 an hour. Just charge the job. This guy is used to paying more for quality and will gladly do it. Whats the worst that will happen, he will say no? Probably not. I say charge him double.Bill
Reply:I have to agree with the ones above, charge your normal hourly rate.  Take your time and do the best job you can.  If you do an awesome job, he will apreciate it.  Its not a cash  cow, its a customer just like the rest.  Could be a great one, or could be a one shot deal.DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Just simplify your life and his, give him the same quote you would everybody else.  Standard work gets standard pricing. Elaborate or ornate work gets priced accordingly.
Reply:Just because you charge labor plus materials and expenses doesn't mean that there isn't a lot of money to be made. Count all of your time. Count the time you spend buying materials or add a percentage. Charge for any prep work done in the shop. Are you going to spending a night in a motel? You have 10-12 hours driving time so you should be able to charge per diems. On the other hand, I'm always a little skeptic about any job that would have me drive for hundreds of miles for a day or so worth of work. Has the guy already screwed over every welder in 5 counties
Reply:Originally Posted by tresi...On the other hand, I'm always a little skeptic about any job that would have me drive for hundreds of miles for a day or so worth of work. Has the guy already screwed over every welder in 5 counties...
Reply:A few questions. First, how did he get your number? I mean, if it is a referral job, then the referral has probably given an idea of cost per day, previous job, etc. Second question: How many other guys are you bidding against? Personally, I hate bidding wars. I don't like being in the middle, and I can tell you this- If he has you, and one other bid just for reference, then stick to your guns on a fair price. If you are getting the pleasure of bidding against 3,4,.....more guys, then I can honestly tell you- back out of it. You will either get used to hammer the real guy he wants on price, or you are the real guy, and he is going to use someone as a lever on you. As to a fair price, figure honestly, your time, consumables, materials. Also, how much time invested in travel, just to bid this thing?? If I drive 100 miles for anything less than to start a job, I need some money for the bid, just to offset the time lost on another paying job. 'Cause if you're getting rich, then fine. But if you aren't getting the job, and going broke...hell, you can go broke fishing at the lake. No need to go broke driving to some far off job you may not get, or one you get that won't pay for itself.And then, after so much work...... you have it in your hand, and you look over to your side...... and the runner has run off. Leaving you holding the prize, wondering when the runner will return.
Reply:The local Harley dealer gets $90 per hour for fooling around with Harleys. I would think big. If he's got that much dough, he's probably more interested in the finished product that what he pays.Miller Millermatic 252Miller Syncrowave 200Liincoln AC-DC 225Victor O-A Set
Reply:Well, I submitted my price. I calculated everything at $60 for me and $10 for my son. I gave a base price and added some options, I calculated every possible cost and didn't give any breaks but I didn't gouge.  What a lot of great suggestions and questions:   Why me? It was one of those "my relative who has a friend who has a relative on the inside"  deals and it was a "Do you know any good welders?" type thing not some bidding war.   Did this person screw over everybody in five counties? I don't think so although this person does have a reputation as being somewhat demanding. My dad was a top sergeant in WWII so I can handle that. I did calculate for an extra trip to fix something unacceptable because of that reputation though.   Why would you ever charge anyone more than anyone else?  Two reasons, first to feed my kids, sometimes some people can't pay my rate but I have no other work so I make less to eat, second, occasionally I'm a soft touch, I admit it, some sweet old lady on a fixed income wants some dopey little railing down her front stoop so she doesn't slip on the ice and break a hip but she really can't afford I low ball. Not often, but once in a while.Also, be nice to the old timer in overalls pushing a broom around, he probably owns the mansion! Yeah I laughed when I read that one. I already learned that lesson the hard way. Once when working for my old boss I installed a railing that the architect designed with the mounting flanges  for the lag bolts oriented not perpendicular from the railing for leverage but inline. That seemed kinda nuts to me and I made a comment to the owner, who also was the architect.Heres my take. You charge him more, more, more. He can afford it. You seem to be in the minority on that sentiment there WH. If it makes you feel better I did dream up a few really expensive options in case spending big money is the object here. I estimate the reality of the situation is that somebody rich expects a lot for their money and expect to have to pay more so I'm expecting a bit of time consuming ball busting and have included that in my labor calculation. Probably undercalculated with my luck.Find out what the competition would charge. You should know that anyhow. Well, the general consensus here from most parts of the country is $50 per hour but I'm going with $60 only because I live in one of the most expensive states. It's when you read these millionaires sometimes pay double for things it gets tempting to gouge. I might be passing up a small fortune but at least I'm at peace with it. I think, no really, money isn't everything, is it? I screwed up didn't I? Oh Man!  No seriously, thanx for all the help all.Last edited by 12,000 Doors; 06-17-2007 at 09:23 PM.
Reply:Well with your decision made..Don't leave us hanging... If you get the job pics are always welcome.. ...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Ever hand a guy a bill and have him say " Is that all?"    Its happened to me many times, but it sure brings in more work.   I think you got it down pretty good.  DavidGood luckReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Sounds like you made a fair bid. If you were recommend by someone that would be a fair explaination as to why he'd be getting a bid from someone 300 miles away. Sounds like your already building a good reputation. Best of luck to you.
Reply:When I first got into sales, I was uncomfortable quoting prices in the range of $100,000 -- even if the prospect had that kind of money and was willing to spend it on a big marketing program. Frankly, the number just made me giggle.Amazing thing: I didn't get my first $100,000 sale until I forced myself to become comfortable proposing $100,000 sales.What's going on is that deep down, you're saying to yourself, "No railing is worth what this guy wants me to produce." Take that thought from your mind and follow the advice of others:Figure out what it's going to cost in time and materials, and quote a fair price.If you allow yourself to think that price is too high, then 1 of 2 things is going to happen:1) You'll get the job at a lower price, and then hate yourself because you aren't making the money you're earning; or2) You won't get the job because the prospect will think you're a hack who has under-quoted by so much that he couldn't possibly know what he's doing.Remember one more thing: Your millionaire prospect didn't get to be a millionaire by low-balling the cost for whatever it is that he does. He had the audacity to charge every penny of his worth, and possibly more -- and then made sure that he earned it. It takes backbone to hang it all out there like that, but you can do the same if you choose. You say your family needs this, but the very worst that can happen by charging the right price is that you DON'T get work you can't afford to do.Bob RosenbaumFormer PublisherPenton's WELDING MagazineBack home, there was an old Refrigeration Tech.  Expensive?  Yes.  Good work?  You couldn't find better.His reputation for good work spread like wild fire.  LARGE accounts ( grocery stores, casinos ) from towns 200 miles away were calling him.  He charged $ X for answering the phone ( if it was after hours ), he charged $ X, for Glass time; or per-diem, Materials, labor.He made bank.  Same rate for a large casino as John Doe down the street.  But it was his reputation for great work and service that made him so large.In the mean time, local hack jobs would come in and 'recharge' a unit... not bothering to fix it... just so they could get repeat business.  Needless to say. EVERYONE knows who they are... and their phone don't ring very much.Congrats on the job... keep us posted.
Reply:I occassionally do some work for a multi $M'aire. Every time he walks in the hangar it's $10,000. Now he's used to it so as soon as I see him the first words out of my mouth are "Ten grand".
Reply:Good thread....grats on the job.Good quality work requires good quality pay.  All professionals charge what they are worth.
Reply:You seem to have taken to account all the advice you received on this board. Safe to say there is a fair representation. Good luck in your endeavour.Bill