Argon's out of control.

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I'm just a simple hobby welder and machinist. I just took one of my two customer-owned 150 cu.ft. argon cylinders to the local Airgas to exchange it for a full one. I have an account there and I just got a bill for $75.00. The argon was about $63 and the rest was Haz-Mat fees and tax, etc. I just think I'm getting soaked. I'm sure glad I'm not doing this for a living. I'm going to start practicing with my stick welding again. It's pretty cheap what with no argon and all. I already use C02 on my MIG and that's not too bad yet. I realize that commercial shops probably get a discount but when it comes to the hobby folks, Airgas gives no breaks. Thanks for listening!P.S., the other two LWS's, Barnes and Praxair, are within $2.00 of Airgas's price. Miller Millermatic 252Miller Syncrowave 200Liincoln AC-DC 225Victor O-A Set
Reply:Yes, Airgas is expensive. I get mine filled at the LWS for about $28-30...with tax. My 300 cube bottle of 75/25 is only about $33-36. John -  fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!-  bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:What size do I have Micro?? They are about 6 feet tall..Maybe 8..9" in diameter..1600 P.S.I. full..And I always have a spare full at all times... And I don't care what they cost.. That's not my department... ...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Zap, depending on exact dimensions, you have 200-300 ft3 tanks there.Seems a little expensive, but even then remember that it works out to about $3-$4 an hour for the gas when he's welding.  That's $3-$4 per hour of ARC time, not shop/project time.  How many rods are you going to have to go through to deposit as much weld as the MIG guy will in an hour of arc time?  And filling the two 150's probably cost more than if you just filled a single 300.  Yes you pay for the gas, but you are probably paying more for the labor to fill and move the tanks.
Reply:Zap, depending on exact dimensions, you have 250-300 ft3 tanks there.
Reply:An 80 fill in Philly is 19 or 20 bucks.  All the places I've checked are almost exactly the same price.  $75 for a 150 would make me rethink how much argon I use too.  youch!Favorite right now is a Miller Syncro 200.Tons of tools and I blame at least one of them when things don't go right.
Reply:I am absolutely FED UP and done with Airgas and their B.S.!!  I usually go to the store in Pomona. I get a "little" (and I mean little) price break. I've only been using them for a decade. What do I expect, right?  So, one day I have to go the opposite direction but have a bout 4 bottles that need filling. I decide to go try the Rancho Cucamonga store since it's on my way. I've been there a few times before and I have an account with Airgas so no problem, right? Wrong.I had just had a 200 ft3 bottle of Argon filled a few days prior at the Pomona store and paid $85 freakin' dollars for it.I exchange my bottles at the Rancho store and go to sign the bill....$121 for Argon in the same size bottle!!!!I protested and they finally fixed the price but only after telling me that it was MY fault for not having the Pomona store update my pricing in the companies computer database.There are ALWAYS B.S. hazmat fees for things like gloves and lenses.....it's ridiculous....and watch your bills from them. I have found that they always charge me for the next size bottle. For example, all of my bills for my 200's are billed as 250's and when you look at the sticker on the bottle showing how many actual cubic feet were put in, it shows 191...everytime.- Paulhttp://all-a-cart.comWelding Cart Kits and accessories
Reply:Yepper, I think you have the big 300 cube bottles zapper. Airgas has a large presence all over the US so they think they can charge for that. John -  fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!-  bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:Just for some contrast, but I do business with airgas here and I haven't ever had a supplier look after me the way they do.  I pay about $45 bucks for a large argon, but I have one of two salesmen that I have gotten to know and ALWAYS deal with them.  I always call ahead that way if they aren't there my ticket is made out and waiting on me.  But I will say that from working out of town. Quality of service as well as price vary greatly from location to location.  As I hear, you guys out west are the highest of any locations.I'm a Lover, Fighter, Wild horse Rider, and a pretty good welding man......
Reply:Airgas charged me a Hazmat fee on a 2 lb roll of wire.  I didn't notice until I got home.  I won't ever go there again.I went to my LWS (which, coincidentally, is LWS-Louisville Welders Supply) and they were $10 cheaper then Airgas on a small cylinder of C25.PatrickLincoln 175HD
Reply:Well, believe me, I'm going to shop around. I'm going to try the other two LWS's again to see if they will cut the price somewhat if I open an account. I've got nothing to lose. About 6 months ago, Airgas raised the prices on welding gases 20% across the board.....why? Because they can. They systematically bought up all of the Mom and Pop stores in Northern California (and probably elsewhere) and basically took over. Can you say monopoly? I used to weld things for friends and so on for free...uh-uh, no more. Last time I did something for someone, it was $20. Haven't heard from him since. Hahahahahahaha.Miller Millermatic 252Miller Syncrowave 200Liincoln AC-DC 225Victor O-A Set
Reply:Okay.  I'm a TOTAL noob to all of this welding jargon and, well, welding for that matter.  My question is, what is LWS that everyone speaks of?  Thanks!***Stick welding like, woah.***
Reply:LWS - Local Welding Supplier
Reply:LWS = Local Welding Supplier.Probably airgas - John
Reply:I'll add one more - Local Welding Supplier. This can be a Mom and Pop store, Ace Hardware carries some welding stuff, or a 2 to 10 store chain like Rural Bolt here.John -  fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!-  bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:I use a local place and get a 270ish cf bottle for $39 out the door.  Why would argon be considered haz mat?  It is because it's just under high pressure?Smithboy...if it ain't broke, you ain't tryin'.
Reply:A$$Gas charges hazmat fees on EVERYTHING.No joke, every bill you get from them has the charge on it no matter what you buy.I have been a very loyal customer of theirs for 10 years and dealt with a small group of sales people. I spend a good amount of money there (and not just because they overcharge). I will not be spending another dime there.I will be looking for a new LWS starting tomorrow as I have about 4 more tanks to fill.Anybody know of a decent LWS in Southern California?- Paulhttp://all-a-cart.comWelding Cart Kits and accessories
Reply:Sims Welding Supply is a Distributor of Welding Equipment andIndustrial / Specialty Gases in Southern Californiahttp://www.simswelding.com/locations.phpJohn -  fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!-  bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:Originally Posted by ZTFabA$$Gas charges hazmat fees on EVERYTHING.No joke, every bill you get from them has the charge on it no matter what you buy.I have been a very loyal customer of theirs for 10 years and dealt with a small group of sales people. I spend a good amount of money there (and not just because they overcharge). I will not be spending another dime there.I will be looking for a new LWS starting tomorrow as I have about 4 more tanks to fill.Anybody know of a decent LWS in Southern California?- Paul
Reply:Originally Posted by gnm109Last time I did something for someone, it was $20. Haven't heard from him since. Hahahahahahaha.
Reply:C&C Oxygen here in Chattanooga gets me for $55 for a 300cf of pure argon.Miller EconotigCutmaster 38Yes ma'am, that IS a screwdriver in my pocket!
Reply:Hey thanks all to you who answered my question om LWS.  ***Stick welding like, woah.***
Reply:Gas prices are always regional it seems. The high price may be a PRK thing. I am paying about 42 and change for 150's. Just got one a month ago. 125's only cost me 25 or so at my main supplier.
Reply:I've been very happy with the service I get at my local Airgas.   I do get a small discount cause I have a business account with them.  The guys there are very courteous and helpful.  The other welding supply choices here are West Air and 5-Star.   I refuse to buy from West Air cause the service they give us at work is horrible and their prices aren't much different than Airgas.  I haven't tried 5-Star.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Originally Posted by ZTFabAnybody know of a decent LWS in Southern California?- PaulPaul,I've had good luck with 5 Star Gas & Gear. They have quite a few locations. Just checked. Closest to you is Rancho Cucamonga.mm135HTP Invertig 201 With water cooler9" Southbend LatheLots of hand tools.
Reply:Hazmat fees:Picked up a new pair of burning glasses the other week, in the store. Hazmat fee on the bill. I didn't ask. Not worth it.
Reply:I didn't know shade 5 glasses were hazardous material !  I'm going to start charging Hazmat fee on computers and turbos! John -  fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!-  bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:Originally Posted by MicroZone I didn't know shade 5 glasses were hazardous material !  I'm going to start charging Hazmat fee on computers and turbos!
Reply:Well, I've known that for years. Our county has a specific day for throwing away old pc's, monitors and printers. I just haven't caught on to tacking on the Hazmat fee.  I catch on quick, right? John -  fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!-  bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:So does our County, they load up all of the computers and monitors, charge $5 a pop, and haul them to the same landfill everything else goes to!!  No seperation facilities there.  I have followed the trucks.  Makes the tree huggers feel good though!Rob PageMiller Bobcat 250Lincoln SP170-T
Reply:I was referred to the Airgas store in Ontario right by the 10 fwy for a Fiber-Metal hardhat. Is Praxair a seperate entity? Here they are.http://www.praxair.com/na/us/praxair...ia&StoreType=7City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:I haven't bought argon at full price in a while.  I get a discount because of my employer and because I am a member of a union which offers training which makes me technically a "student".  Pretty cheap to fill my 60cf bottle.  But not too cheap...burns up pretty fast.I wonder what it costs to fill the ones at work.  They are almost 6 feet tall, about 3 feet wide and are filled with LIQUID argon.  Cryogenically cooled and compressed argon.
Reply:Around here we have only 2 choices, WESCO and AIRGAS.  AIRGAS bought out the LINDE stores in the area.  I have used both but find the WESCO shop in Brewton and Pensacola to be much more helpful and less arrogant.  Willing to answer my stupid questions and help me make good (not profitable) decisions.  Mobile, Robertsdale, and Brewton AIRGAS shops are very good and I have used them all at one time or another.I believe my price on a #3(?) bottle of 75%Ar/25%CO2 was quoted as $22 at WESCO.  They charged me $16.50 for a 244 Ox cylinder and $28 for a 130 Acetylene fill.  Lease on these is $55 per year per bottle.  Good prices?  I don't know.Rob PageMiller Bobcat 250Lincoln SP170-T
Reply:Originally Posted by gnm109I just took one of my two customer-owned 150 cu.ft. argon cylinders to the local Airgas to exchange it for a full one.
Reply:At the risk of getting run off from this welding site, I won't tell you precisely what I think about Air Gas. They started in about 20 years ago and began buying out all of the small Mom and Pop welding stores in Sacramento (and elsewhere, I understand). They basically wound up with a monopoly. They recently raised their prices 20% on gas. There are now only two other stores where I am: Praxair (Large international company) and Barnes (Local out of Fresno). They are all very close to Air Gas prices. I only go to Airgas when I need gas anymore. Since they choose to have high prices, I buy everything else on the internet or from Lowes and Home Depot. (Lowes and Home Depot have OEM Lincoln tips and welding wire in small quantities at reasonable prices. I don't use Radnor wire from Airgas anymore because it won't run properly on my MIG)  I bought my Lincoln SP175+ from Indiana Oxygen Co. (IOC) on the internet about two years ago and saved $300 over what Airgas wanted for the welder and cart. I asked for a small break very nicely and they told me no. So now, anything other than gas is bought on the internet at good prices. They showed me!Last edited by gnm109; 08-05-2007 at 11:27 AM.Miller Millermatic 252Miller Syncrowave 200Liincoln AC-DC 225Victor O-A Set