Can't get the certification test

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I am taking a welding class that the company I work for is offering in the evenings. We have class 2 days a week for 13 weeks and we are at week 9. At any rate our instructor has done a great job and has given us the certification test for the flat position on 3/8" plate for MIG. No matter what I do I just can't pass this thing. I took it again today and the root pass was freaking awesome right down the middle smooth just a really nice weld, but every pass after that turned to crap. Can't stay in groove, I dragged the nozzle thru the puddle, just a nightmare. I was actually embarrassed at my finished test. There are only 3 of us in the class and only the one other guy that took it today was good enough to send for xray. I am so frustrated that I almost don't even want to go back to class next week. Now granted it is not going to cost me my job if I don't pass, but I really want to pass and have this cert as simple as it maybe compared to others. I guess God did not intend for me to be a welder.
Reply:Post a picture and perhaps we can help.John -  fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!-  bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:I gave up on my last test plate no less than 5 times, I'm talking about one test plate, 5 times in my 4 hour time limit...before I COMPLETED the plate. Finish the test plate no matter what. You are still learning as you test! A single failure at these tests is no big deal. I should mention that it took me a full year to complete 2 good plates in mig., and another 6 months to catch up on 2 good stick plates, which should have been first. I lost count of the number of practice plates I failed, it takes (me at least) a lot of practice to get it right, don't give up, you'll only be a better weldor for it! Good luck, Danny.City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:Practice!  Don't give up.  Some people catch on quicker than others.  It took me a while to get it.  It didn't click all throughout college and one day on a carpentry job years later they needed a welder and I picked up the stinger, stuck it in the root and went to town and it clicked.  Don't get discouraged.  If it helps, bring out a cutting disk and make a grove down the edge of your hot passes or edge of your root pass and follow that.  Once you get the hang of it you can stop doing that.
Reply:Listen it took me about 4 mos everyday 6 hours a day M-F to figure out the vertical butt joint.  Just keep practicing.  Once you do a decent one your confidence will boost a little.  You may be trying too hard which is always my deal.  Don't try sooo hard.  I literally have to talk myself thru most of my welding.  Especially stick and TIG whether I'm weaving or catwalking which I still can't do.  If you have your heat and speed right you should be able to manipulate that pool.  Are you jacking it all.... that's what we called it.  I think they mentioned whipping it here, basically going back and forth just a hair.  Remember if you are trying to stay in the groove(s) then you must make your pool go on the groove just a hair and when you go the other direction it will lay right.  Does that make sense?Laura MM 180Chop SawDewalt grinderhelpful husband
Reply:Sounds like you are having troulble seeing.  Clean lense cover and glasses if applicable. Check you shade,  you might do better with a lighter shade.  On test day you might want to put a new lense in your helmet.  There is a definite contrast from seeing the root where there is no filler yet laid down and the following passes.
Reply:How old are you...? I am in my 50s. Years ago I could easily stay on line but now no way without some help. Have to keep all lenses clean and use a magnifier lens. Without the magnifier I have to turn the shade down between 9-10. With the magnifier I am back to 12 with no problem.
Reply:I will certainly agree that part of the problems I am having are because I can't see as the joint get smaller. I do wear contacts but it just seems dare I say too dark to see the smaller joints. The helmets we are using are used very hard, I do clean the glass but there is a lot of spatter on them. I want to thank everyone for their encouragement, I just am real frustrated with myself cause I want this bad and I know I can do it. It just seems like I start good and it just get worse and worse with each pass on the test plates. I am 32 and work for a large fabricator as an estimator. They offered this class to anyone who wanted to take it and part of my tasks is so much training a year, since my background is in CNC programming and machining I figured this would be a great way to get that training done rather than sitting in another software seminar, plus I have learned a lot, sure I could read weld symbols all day long but to put that weld on two plates I was clueless. So like I said my job doesn't count on me passing but I don't want to be that "office guy" who didn't make it either. Plus I have a new found respect for the people who do this day in and day out, to do what I have been doing for only 6 hours a week with the 90 degree plus weather and humidity we have been having in PA they really earn their pay.
Reply:Hey Jeep, I'm from Lebanon but live in Ga.  Where are you at in Pa? I wear contacts too and you don't have to have your lens extra dark to weld with them.  Only problem I've had is sometimes my eyes hurt even with the darkest shade, they are not burnt but they get fatigued.  Instructor said cause they are such a light blue.  If you have $30 to spend go to Tractor Supply.  They sell a nice helmet bag, helmet, hammer and wire brush.  Sounds like that helmet you're using is part of the problem.  You should be able to see well with the proper shade and a new lens.  Just keep practicing.  Try something else for a little while.  Have they taught you all the positions and joints? Work on veritcal down or downhill for a while for a change of pace.  You'll get it, break over the weekend and try again next week.  You still have a few weeks left. I think it's great that you are taking the time to learn this trade and get outside your comfort zone.  It's not easy, not for me anyway but there's something I love about it.  Who knows you may want a welder in the end and tinker around with it.Last edited by pinklilly11; 08-09-2007 at 09:47 PM.Laura MM 180Chop SawDewalt grinderhelpful husband
Reply:OK, hold it right there!  Spatter on your lens?  That is the kiss of death. You have got to be able to see with as much clarity as possible and that will only happen if you can relax your eyes while watching the puddle, get your self replacement lenses if you have to buy your own and replace the old ones with your own at every session. Even smoke from one pass can skew your vision enough to make life unbearable. And the shade of lense you're using is critical, I was using a #11 until I was challenged to describe the detail of the weld puddle, I could not describe those details because I was still squinting. I changed to shade #12, and it made a HUGE difference. (I have sensitive vision, your vision will vary. )It all comes down to every little detail and cleanliness is next to Godliness. Check those lenses often and clean them off gently with a clean cloth so as to avoid scratches. Clean your weld zone after each pass, and I mean sparkling clean for testing, are you allowed a wire wheel? Have a set of dental pick tools for any little bit of glass that gets stuck in there.City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:If you can't see what you are doing, how are you going to do better?Fix that problem before you do anything else.You will probably be home free after that.DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:I bet your instructor has a box of clear lenses ask for some also relax take your time don't tense up because you want this so bad and when it starts to give you problems like can't tell if your following your previus passes step, away use a soap stone to draw a line as a guide,like other posts clean lenses perferably your own hood even better, because your the only one using it. Good luck hope you make it.AWS CWI Hypertherm 850 plasmaLincoln LN-25Lincoln SAE 400Miller Big 40D28' X 36' X 14' Shop_____________________________________Tools are not the the skill but simply tools!
Reply:I would consider getting your own helmet, a fixed shade one is only about $30 for a nice BIG window one.I had a "standard" small window helmet and used it for about a year with the same problems you describe, Then I saw a Jackson BIG window one and I was in love!  Oh man what a difference!
Reply:I love my jackson large view hood.  Makes life much easier.
Reply:I was fibremetal big window for about 15years -then I borrowed a Jackson helment with a EQC auto dark lense that night I whent and bought my own and never went back - you can adjust the shade- this is helpful when welding at different amperages.Seeing makes the difference. On the fill passes aim the core wire (regardless of the process at the toe of the weld and try for lapping over half of the privious bead and an equal amout on the groove side wall. Good luck and don't give upMartin MC Weld TechAWS-CWIAWS-CWEwww.linkedin.com/pub/martin-cramer/20/b36/940/
Reply:Here is what i did to correct the same type of problems you are having.- Make sure the inside cover lens is very clean. If you are getting a glare inside the helmet it will mess you up- I found it helped me to use a 11 shade lense and a pair of saftey "sun glasses" pulled down on my nose. That way if it was to light i would look through the glasses and if too dark i could look past them- after each pass is cleaned take a peice of soapstone and put you a line for where the CENTER of your next weld is gonna be at. When you are welding you will be able tto se the soapstone mark and follow it easer than looking for the edge of the previous weld.I had alot of troubles because my eyes are extreamly light sensitive. But with these tips it could help you to.
Reply:Fantastic advice!  You guys are superb!  I thought it was just me that could not see what everybody else was seeing.Victor O/AMillermatic 210Hypertherm 380Miller Thunderbolt
Reply:Just want to say thanks for all the great advise that has been given. I really think that the seeing part is probably the biggest part of the problems I am having. Although not having the money to buy a new helmet I'm not sure how I am going to fix it but I need to do something so I can try to eliminate the vision end of things. We didn't test today the instructor didn't really say when we would test again, I suspect Wednesday. Today we just ran wire for the whole class and I really tried extra hard to "see the puddle" and try different positions of holding the gun to get consistant welds at a comfortable position. I did weld better and was able to gain some confidence and I got a better feel for the speed I need to travel across the joint. Before I was going pretty slow and naturally the result was big wide welds, I actually slowed the wire speed down and sped up my travel till I got better and better. At any rate once again I would like to thank everyone and as I joked with the instructor "it's so easy an estimator can do it!!!"
Reply:Go to the LWS and buy the shade and size lense you think you need. When you go to class agian just switch out you lense for the one in it. Reverse process after class.Anything worth doing is worth doing RIGHT
Reply:I did a inhouse flat 1/16th dual shield test and screwed up on my cover because I couldn't see what was going on after a few passes.  I veered off to one side about 1/2" before I realized it.  I still passed but it got me to wondering how to tell where you are when your buildup is almost level with the metal.  One fella told me to put a piece of flatbar next to the weld to follow.  Just keep the same distance away from it the entire weld.  I might help to brighten up the edge with some soapstone also.Common sense in an uncommon degree is what the world calls wisdom.
Reply:Originally Posted by JeepSaharaJust want to say thanks for all the great advise that has been given. I really think that the seeing part is probably the biggest part of the problems I am having. Although not having the money to buy a new helmet I'm not sure how I am going to fix it but I need to do something so I can try to eliminate the vision end of things. We didn't test today the instructor didn't really say when we would test again, I suspect Wednesday. Today we just ran wire for the whole class and I really tried extra hard to "see the puddle" and try different positions of holding the gun to get consistant welds at a comfortable position. I did weld better and was able to gain some confidence and I got a better feel for the speed I need to travel across the joint. Before I was going pretty slow and naturally the result was big wide welds, I actually slowed the wire speed down and sped up my travel till I got better and better. At any rate once again I would like to thank everyone and as I joked with the instructor "it's so easy an estimator can do it!!!"
Reply:Originally Posted by BrainfarthI did a inhouse flat 1/16th dual shield test and screwed up on my cover because I couldn't see what was going on after a few passes.  I veered off to one side about 1/2" before I realized it.  I still passed but it got me to wondering how to tell where you are when your buildup is almost level with the metal.  One fella told me to put a piece of flatbar next to the weld to follow.  Just keep the same distance away from it the entire weld.  I might help to brighten up the edge with some soapstone also.
Reply:at WHAT distance does your contact lenses focus ? I was the last in my apprentice class to pass the 110-18  hy-80 plate tests . much later i realised my prescription glasses focused about 3feet away. too far to see the plate clearly. (i am near sighted , see up close  without glasses perfect) but the rules said i had to have glasses on. What I needed was safety glasses with no prescription, it was years later , before i figured THAT out .also , try several different dark lenses to find the ONE you like the best , green or gold , or silver ,etc, as well as the # shade you can see best through .ONLY you can determine whats best for YOU .[SIZE="5"Yardbird"