STILL can't get angle iron 45'd right! What's the deal?

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I still cannot get this right. I have tried everything and cannot get the ends to square up right. I don't know what is going on. Getting very frustrated. Can someone post some pics and how your cutting each end? I would greatly appreciate it. I feel like a jackass. I have done plenty of carpentry work mitering and such. I don't know why I cannot get these squared up. I got to be making wrong cuts or somthing.    PLEASE bare with me. I'm really not a moron LOL.
Reply:First thing we need to know is what you're cutting it with?????                                    MikeOl' Stonebreaker  "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes"Hobart G-213 portableMiller 175 migMiller thunderbolt ac/dc stick Victor O/A setupMakita chop saw
Reply:I am cutting it with a chop saw. Sears Craftsman.
Reply:Take a few pictures, it will show us what you're doing or not doing.John -  fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!-  bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:did you square up your blade to the holder?
Reply:I think my problem is when I cut the oppositte end. What is the proper procedure for cutting the 45's. Also: do you cut through both legs? when i cut the oppositte end the only way I can get the right cut is to lay the angle down like a tee pee (triangle) this is the only way I can seem to find to get the right direction cut. Then I dont know if I should cut through both legs or just one.
Reply:Originally Posted by BadAzzButhe only way I can get the right cut is to lay the angle down like a tee pee (triangle) this is the only way I can seem to find to get the right direction cut.
Reply:Best way I found w/ my chopsaw is to set the fence at exactly 45* w/ a speed square and the scribe a mark on the base to line the fence up w/ then do the same for the other 45*. Also scribe a mark at exactly 90*. I found this is more accurate than using the factory index marks. When cutting any angle other than 90*,don't horse the blade thru the iron as this will make the iron creep. I'm thinking of adapting my hold down visegrips for a drill press table to use them on the chop saw to hold the iron when cutting angles.    If you want perfect 45's better invest in a metal band saw. That's why I've always liked welding better than woodworking. If there's a little gap just fill it up w/ weld. Boy, that statement will bring the perfectionists out of the wood work,or in this case maybe I should say "metalwork"!!!                        JMHO,                                MikeOl' Stonebreaker  "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes"Hobart G-213 portableMiller 175 migMiller thunderbolt ac/dc stick Victor O/A setupMakita chop saw
Reply:What about my procedure for cutting? Is that the correct way to cut each end?
Reply:I like to cut my angle with a side up, so I can see the marks of where to cut it better.  But one problem is angle does not clamp well like this and cam come loose during a cut.An easy way to solve this is just put a small section of sq tubing in to hold it in place.Last edited by Me!; 08-31-2007 at 10:12 PM.Me!
Reply:O.K. so you only cut one leg, you don't cut through both legs then. Your only 45ing one leg. Correct?
Reply:There's carpentry and then there's joinery. Outside corner molding is tricky to cut for a tight fit. Angle iron is the same shape. So, there is the first question of configuration, is this an outside or inside corner. We don't need to know here, you need to know when you set up the saw for the cut. Long stock must be supported flat and even at both ends, because you may have only a small amount in the work clamp if you are unable to swing the saw in 2 directions, like a woodworking miter saw. Chop saws don't swivel, the clamps swivel in one direction only. You may have to turn the angle up on edge, with a support block, to configure the clamp for the proper angle. I find it helpful to avoid confusion, if I use a soap stone to make a full line across the cut for reference. You start spinning the steel all around and you get confused! After all the prep work, the final proof is in the refinement of your measuring and marking skill. Real sorry to go long, but there is my sawyer lesson.City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:So, say in your pic you cut that leg off. Flip it around (probably will be laying flat then right?) and cut the other needed leg off. See I wasn't really even sure on the cutting process as far as cutting through both legs or just one.
Reply:Well tanglediver I appreciate the long wind. After I messed with it for a while I was very confuzed and aggrevated so I came home and got on here cuz I knew you guys would eventually set me straight. I think I know what I need to do now.
Reply:The square tubing and the soapstone are great ideas. I am new to metal work as I am welding but I do enjoy learning. Nice to have people to help out. Thx again. Now maybe I can get started on my cart LOL.
Reply:ONLY ONE AT A TIME, ok?City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:I am not sure what you mean by "cut that leg off"If I was making a picture frame with this angle I would cut all 4 section to look like this:  /=========\When You cut them off you are going to completely cut through the angle not just on face of it.Me!
Reply:By leg I mean side as there are 2 sides to the piece of angle.
Reply:In the picture I would cut it off completely, not stopping at only the top side.  It was mentioned that one way to do this is notch out only one side and bend the angle but you will not be able to do the next cut on a chop saw since it  only goes 45 in one direction.Me!
Reply:I'll give it a shot tomorrow. I think I got it.
Reply:I see Me! did a good job with a demo. Here's something I did quick anyway, just slower than him. I've got a strange little band saw arrangement that works not unlike an abrasive/chop saw in set-up for cuts. Attached ImagesLast edited by Sandy; 08-31-2007 at 11:21 PM.
Reply:When you're done you end up with something like this or nicer. A little gap but not bad. Gaps can be good. I use lots of home made jigs and clamping devices. Attached Images
Reply:Very nice, alot easier with a bandsaw a? Very clean and nice fit.
Reply:Your saw should do ok, just go slow.Me!
Reply:Thank you for taking the time to take the pics and post you guys. I appreciate it.Nice fit-up Sandy!
Reply:look at the pieces your cutting, the saw we have at work has a tendency to flex away from the drive motor. you line up the mark and pull the trigger and the blade moves to the left between 1/32 - 1/8. a real pain in the butt when doing precise work. the flexing of the blade also puts a slight angle on the work piece. so i generally do like sandy and use the badsaw. but small gaps can be overlooked and filled in with weld. i have 4 angle clamps that i clamp it all together and measure. as long as my corners are square and sides true i weld away."Retreat hell, were just fighting in the other direction"Miller Trailblazer 302, Extreme 12 VS, Dimension 400, Spectrum 375, HF 251D-1, Milermatic 251 w/ spoolgun  Hypertherm 1000Lincoln sp 1702000 F-450 to haul it
Reply:Yeah his fitup was great. My fitup was more than a gap it was a alley. LOL. When wife gets off work tonight i'm going to head into the garage and see what I can do. I spent like $130 for my chop saw. For $200 I couldve got a Northern Tool band saw. I will have to add that to my arsenal looks like.
Reply:Sometimes the chopsaw blades pulls the metal through the saw as you are cutting.  The vice is not very strong and surface area is minimimized when you are cutting at angles.  Try to add an extra clamp to hold the material in place.  You could also check to see if the metal is moving by marking the metal and seeing if it has moved by then end of the cut.
Reply:Originally Posted by tapwelderSometimes the chopsaw blades pulls the metal through the saw as you are cutting.  The vice is not very strong and surface area is minimimized when you are cutting at angles.  Try to add an extra clamp to hold the material in place.  You could also check to see if the metal is moving by marking the metal and seeing if it has moved by then end of the cut.
Reply:Looks like the bandsaw has a much cleaner cut also. After I cut with the chop saw got to grind off all the burrs. I think I am going to invest in one of those vise's that holds the parts for a perfect square.
Reply:Well, I finally figured out which direction everything had to be to get the correct cuts for each side. I go to butt them together with the square and there is a nice gap. I am going to have to find the exact 45 and scribe it like was mentioned earlier. The way mine is set up you can be off by a few degrees or so I would say. I am glad I finally got part of the problem solved. Wish I had the dough right now to order me a bandsaw. Thx guys.
Reply:I usually cut all the angles for one direction first,so instead of flipping back a fourth each time, just cut, slide to the next cut a leave a few inches of extra to get the second cut.so now you have pieces that look like this /--------------/ with an extra inch or two on the end so you can make you second cut the other direction /-----------\I would say make sure to take it really slow and make sure the piece is level and at a true 45deg to the blade itself, cheap chopsaws arnt exactly square.Have we all gone mad?
Reply:Originally Posted by BadAzzBuWell, I finally figured out which direction everything had to be to get the correct cuts for each side. I go to butt them together with the square and there is a nice gap. I am going to have to find the exact 45 and scribe it like was mentioned earlier. The way mine is set up you can be off by a few degrees or so I would say. I am glad I finally got part of the problem solved. Wish I had the dough right now to order me a bandsaw. Thx guys.
Reply:Get a plasma cutter.  Check out this jig I made for super quick 45* cuts with almost no cleanup.http://www.weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread...ighlight=angleHobart 140 Handler w/ gasHyperTherm Powermax 380 Plasmaoxy/acetylene
Reply:If it's a little off it wont matter after you weld it. I have a clamp like this, it makes doing 90 nice and quick!Me!
Reply:Originally Posted by Me!I like to cut my angle with a side up, so I can see the marks of where to cut it better.  But one problem is angle does not clamp well like this and cam come loose during a cut.An easy way to solve this is just put a small section of sq tubing in to hold it in place.Attachment 12309Attachment 12310
Reply:I have both a chopsaw and a bandsaw. I use the chopsaw 99% of the time. You can make good clean cuts with one with minimal needed cleanup, just let the saw do it's thing. Once you mark the correct angles on the base you shouldn't have a problem.Nice, Rick. I've got a similar guide I made for plasma cutting. I only use the chopsaw for tubing and solid stock. The bandsaw stays vertical, with the base plate on.Miller EconotigCutmaster 38Yes ma'am, that IS a screwdriver in my pocket!
Reply:I do plenty of stuff with angle the size of the stuff in Sandy's pics. I use a chop saw. I never get a great fit - given up trying. I just fill when I'm welding. I didn't realise bandsaws were so affordable. It would still be a bit of a waste for a hobbyist like me.Last edited by scott brunsdon; 09-04-2007 at 10:39 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by riley mcmillanWhat brand of saw is that?
Reply:The gap I have is too much to be welded. Probably about a 1/4" I am guessing maybe less though. The outside corner is matched up but the other side has the gap.
Reply:Time to adjust the saw...  Me!
Reply:Any of the circular blade methods exert some terrible amount of forces on the cut piece. Wants to pull it in to the cut. So the piece pulls in about the width of a scratch mark at the heal of the cut, the vise twists about the width of a scratch mark and the blade deflects about the width of a scratch mark, the back end comes up when you put pressure down on the cut end, and you end up with a couple of degrees off then times two equals a gap.  The trick is to clamp then clamp and clamp it again then go into it real easy. Let the blade stay in a neutral position of possible.
Reply:Originally Posted by Rick MoranGet a plasma cutter.  Check out this jig I made for super quick 45* cuts with almost no cleanup.http://www.weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread...ighlight=angle