how do i remove a broken Tap?

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I have really outdumbed myself.I drilled out a #4 machine screw but not deep enough or big enough and i broke the superhard extractor off inside the hole. I couldnt get it out so i drilled a new hole and began to tap it with a #4 tap, but i didnt drill the hole big enough and broke the tap.Unless something works to remove one of them i will be drilling another new hole.My question is.If i heat the superhard tap or extractor red hot and let it cool slowly will that make it ductile enough to be able to drill it?
Reply:Like this...http://www.weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread...rbide+end+mill...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Do any of the broken ends (screw, extractor, or tap) have a positive edge above the work piece that you could get a vise grip on? Heating to red and then applying some sort of lubricant would cause a cappilary action that will draw said lubricant into the threads of the machine screw and help you get it out that much more easily. Also, if there is a positive edge, heat the entire area and quickly cool the screw with a piece of parafin wax or ice cube, contracting just that piece while you've got a nice sized pair of vise grip around it.Or atleast thats what I'd try before drilling another hole in it.
Reply:Originally Posted by toadstoolI have really outdumbed myself.I drilled out a #4 machine screw but not deep enough or big enough and i broke the superhard extractor off inside the hole. I couldnt get it out so i drilled a new hole and began to tap it with a #4 tap, but i didnt drill the hole big enough and broke the tap.Unless something works to remove one of them i will be drilling another new hole.My question is.If i heat the superhard tap or extractor red hot and let it cool slowly will that make it ductile enough to be able to drill it?
Reply:Taps that small and are generally used on some fairly delicate items. Any bit that small is likely to be nothing more than an exercise in futility. I succeeded in one and one only years ago with about five bits. Go so slow you think you're gonna grow old getting it done.
Reply:could you drill the tap and then use an easy outset to get it out?
Reply:Hey toadstool,This is a very effective method to remove a tap or any hardened object from a hole, either a thru hole or blind hole. Back in my 'ol gunsmithing days, I used to have to remove broken taps or screws from blind holes in rifle receivers. You simply use O/A, using a small (1-1.5"), high oxy. flame and get the tip of the inner flame cone to touch the broken object and hold it until the object is almost white, and then quickly turn off the acetylene while holding the torch in place and the oxy. will feed the molten puddle and literally disintegrate the tap or screw. You have to be quick when doing this so as not to over heat the surrounding metal. I removed hundreds of broken screws & taps with this method and never ruined any rifle. It works quite well if you do not have or access to a mill or drill press or carbide drills to drill out the broken tap or screw.  Hope this may help you or others with similar problems.......DennyComplete Welding/Machine/Fab. ShopMobile UnitFinally retired*Moderator*"A man's word is his honor...without honor there is nothing.""Words are like bullets.... Once they leave your muzzle, you cannot get them back."
Reply:Originally Posted by yorkiepapHey toadstool,This is a very effective method to remove a tap or any hardened object from a hole, either a thru hole or blind hole. Back in my 'ol gunsmithing days, I used to have to remove broken taps or screws from blind holes in rifle receivers. You simply use O/A, using a small (1-1.5"), high oxy. flame and get the tip of the inner flame cone to touch the broken object and hold it until the object is almost white, and then quickly turn off the acetylene while holding the torch in place and the oxy. will feed the molten puddle and literally disintegrate the tap or screw. You have to be quick when doing this so as not to over heat the surrounding metal. I removed hundreds of broken screws & taps with this method and never ruined any rifle. It works quite well if you do not have or access to a mill or drill press or carbide drills to drill out the broken tap or screw.  Hope this may help you or others with similar problems.......Denny
Reply:Rarely, you can use a broken tap extractor.  Otherwise, the removal method is the same as a broken drill bit or a broken ez-out.
Reply:Hey Sandy,I logged off before I saw your question. A 2-56 is quite small, so it would probably work well and you wouldn't do any damage to any surrounding metal. You would definitely have to really get your O/A flame as small as possible with the high oxy. and get the inner cone to touch the tap and heat quickly. A tap is very brittle and one that small would heat in a second or two. You could probably do that one in less than 8 seconds. If possible, as I did with some rifle receivers, I would wrap the surrounding area with a wet rag. After the tap disintegrated, I would blow out any residual particles, dip a fresh tap in DoDrill, and re-tap the hole. You may have to use a needle pick to clean out some particles if necessary......Hope that helps....Good Luck....DennyComplete Welding/Machine/Fab. ShopMobile UnitFinally retired*Moderator*"A man's word is his honor...without honor there is nothing.""Words are like bullets.... Once they leave your muzzle, you cannot get them back."
Reply:......Hope that helps....Good Luck....Denny
Reply:Hey Sandy,That would be a superb way to get the "feel" of disintegrating a tap. You will be able to determine your flame size, time, and peak heat prior to shutting off the acet.. Practice prior to any attempt will increase your success probability....Let us know how you make out......DennyComplete Welding/Machine/Fab. ShopMobile UnitFinally retired*Moderator*"A man's word is his honor...without honor there is nothing.""Words are like bullets.... Once they leave your muzzle, you cannot get them back."
Reply:I never blasted anything that small, but Yorkiepap's technique is good for a  lot of different burn outs.These things help - Reduce the chance of burning adjacent parts, by keeping start up heat to a minimum. Use two steady hands on the torch, ask a  helper to shut the fuel off. Use a torch tip you're willing to sacrifice, and dress for a meteor shower.If this sounds a little too brutal; as mentioned, you can grind the tap out with a pencil grinder and small carbide.
Reply:If the part is something that cannot be damaged check with local professional deburring shops. Most of them have elox machines that are kind of like a hand held edm machine - tap gone no part damage.
Reply:Well tonight I drilled a #50 tap hole in a small piece of 1/8th material then run an old 2x56 tap in till it snapped (like they ususally do anyway).. Used my 000 tip with the acetylene set about 3 and the oxy about 5... I could get in close and within about a 5 count the tap was white but the surrounding area was getting dull red. turned off the acetylene and there was a tiny "pip" and the tap was gone. Pretty amazing. The hole that remains looks smaller than the original by a bit. It also left a small raised collar or ring of metal around the hole on both sides. I think it's a pretty neat way of removing broken taps, especially on not so delecate items. But I think a number 2 tap is just too small, for me anyway. Could be a smaller welding tip and a better set of regulators would work better. But looking at it, it was right at my eye site limitations .. I can see where the method is going to be handy to know.
Reply:Just be warned not to try this trick in anything but steels.
Reply:That's a neat idea yorkiepap, and it makes sense to me in a way that others might not realize. Tool steel, like what a tap would be made of, heats up alot quicker than low carbon steel. I learned this when working in a tool & die shop. I was heat-treating a punch made for forming a small tank end (about 3"dia.). It was made from 2 pieces of steel about 1" each. I piece was tool steel and the other was low carbon to make up the length needed. Picture 2 hockey pucks bolted together. What I noticed was that, the tool steel got red hot before the low carbon steel was even glowing. Of course, the old hand in the shop knew all about that phenomenon. He told me that he once sent some composite tooling like that out for heat-treating and the furnace "got away" from the guy running it. They sent the stuff back and he said that the tool steel was melted all over the low carbon pieces like candle wax but, the low carbon stuff was intact.Dave
Reply:Originally Posted by enlpckJust be warned not to try this trick in anything but steels.
Reply:Originally Posted by TEKWhy is that???
Reply:Originally Posted by enlpckIf the tap is in, say, aluminum, you are likely  to find that the surface of the hole melts at the top edge before you get  the tap hot enough to disintegrate.
Reply:I have used this trick for damage free burn out of  nuts/studs holding  aluminum wheels.During pre-heat, a broken tap in thin aluminum could risk meltdown.