Direction of Tig Torch Coolant?

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I am putting together a homemade cooler for my tig torch. I have the pump (Procon) and motor and will be attaching those to the top of a 5-gallon pail of distilled water and coolant. I've searched the forum before posting and my remaining question is: Which way does the coolant flow? Is it pumped up the torch through the power line or does it return through the power line? I have a book on tig welding that says the coolant returns via the power line, but the machines we use at school are set up the opposite. What is the correct way or doesn't it matter?ThanksSure, I can fix it... I got a welder!!!
Reply:You want the water to go in the torch "backwards"..If it goes from the power side first then you have all this hot water going down a rather thin plastic tube and i dont think it will put up with much hot water..On the Hobart the power lug that the torch hooks to..The backside is drilled and tapped for the "out" fitting..So my torch is cooled "backwards"..Its the only way I can hook it up..So yes the water passes thru the power side last.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Great, thanks for the quick reply Zap. I bought a Miller Dialarc HF a couple of months ago and have since been gathering all the pieces and parts so I can use it to tig. Hopefully this is the last of it. If I can get all the hoses and fittings for the cooler tomorrow I should have it up and running by the end of the weekend!!!Sure, I can fix it... I got a welder!!!
Reply:Originally Posted by fwalz3Great, thanks for the quick reply Zap. I bought a Miller Dialarc HF a couple of months ago and have since been gathering all the pieces and parts so I can use it to tig. Hopefully this is the last of it. If I can get all the hoses and fittings for the cooler tomorrow I should have it up and running by the end of the weekend!!!
Reply:The cooler is done and works great, and all for less than $100.00. Procon pump and motor from Ebay for $68, an empty and cleaned out spackle bucket w/ lid, 1/2" plywood cut to fit the lid, 2 gallons of antifreeze, 2 gallons of distilled water, some 1/4 ID water hose, and a handful of fittings and voila!!! Attached ImagesSure, I can fix it... I got a welder!!!
Reply:Looks good..Glad it works for ya! ...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Fwalz3, can you tell me about your pump and motor? What size motor and flow numbers off the pump?I have a 1" clear water pump. It's a 1 hp motor and 330 GPH pump.Are you using some sort of regulator on your pump? I've read it takes very little water and this thing will provide way way more than a little. If I regulate it with a ball valve it really labors the motor. But come to think of it I could always bypass the majority of water to the inlet of the pump to dial down the flow. That's how I adjust fuel flow on my mechanical fuel injector on my race car.  Excellent. Now I'm well in my way! If of course the pump is suitable.Thanks
Reply:Most coolers run around 50 psi.Nice job.DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Some Procon pumps have an adjustment screw on them so you can adjust the pressure, I'm not sure mine does though. I read an article on building a tig cooler that explained how to check the flow - a gallon of coolant per so many seconds, which is how I checked mine. I don't remember the numbers off-hand but I'll try and locate the article for you and I'll get you the model number of the pump.Sure, I can fix it... I got a welder!!!
Reply:1 quart of water/coolant per minutehttp://reviews.ebay.com/Maximize-Per...00000000798652Sure, I can fix it... I got a welder!!!
Reply:Okay, I don't see a model number on the pump, it just says Procon PumpIt has a 1/6 hp Bodine Electric MotorLines from the coolerLines to the welderSure, I can fix it... I got a welder!!!
Reply:Thanks dude, nice work on your cooler. Does your cooler have a radiator of some sort? I though about using a transmission cooler because I already have one on the shelf in the garage but I'm wondering now if I can eliminate the need by building in more water capacity and volume. That monster pump I have my just pay off after all. Seeing your pump I'm pretty sure mine is way way too big. But again, I think I can build in a bypass return and get away with it. The pump costed about 25 bucks and more importantly, I already have it. I also have a bunch of hose and black pipe and clamps and fittings. I can almost bet I have about 95% of what I need in the garage and basement already. I'll start a thread when I actually start building. It looks like you have a miller dialarc there. That's what I have anyway and yours looks familliar. Thanks again,Wayne
Reply:just one question why do you have the water running to the solenoid ?that is for hooking it up to city waterChuckASME Pressure Vessel welder
Reply:Originally Posted by chopper5just one question why do you have the water running to the solenoid ?that is for hooking it up to city water
Reply:Jade13640, no I don't have a radiator, I don't run continuous long enough to heat up the 4 gallons of coolant.Yes it is a Dialarc and I love it.Sure, I can fix it... I got a welder!!!
Reply:Originally Posted by fwalz3Thats the gas solenoid you're looking at. The coolant hoses are going to the powerblock behind and below the solenoid.
Reply:The cold water from the cooler, allways goes to the head of the torch first, then down the power cable, back to the cooler.
Reply:Originally Posted by weldgaultThe cold water from the cooler, allways goes to the head of the torch first, then down the power cable, back to the cooler.
Reply:I would make sure that the water/power block in the last picture does not contact the frame.   Me!
Reply:Originally Posted by Me!I would make sure that the water/power block in the last picture does not contact the frame.
Reply:Question, why is it on a circulation system, does the water/coolant not go through the water connection on the welder? So the correct way it works is this? The water goes from the cooling system to the torch, back down the power cable, out the lug and back to the tank without ever going through the welders water connection? What is the purpost of that solonoid switch? I assumed it started and stopped the flow of water as the arc was triggered.Wayne
Reply:It is the same as the gas, starts and srops with the arc. An extra hose has to be added, one from the machine to the power cable adaptor.  John
Reply:John could you clearify your statement? Are you saying that when using a recirculation cooling system the coolant DOES go through the welder's water solonoid?Everyone else is telling me the water only goes through the welder's soloniod when hooked up to city water.Wayne
Reply:Originally Posted by jaded13640John could you clearify your statement? Are you saying that when using a recirculation cooling system the coolant DOES go through the welder's water solonoid?Everyone else is telling me the water only goes through the welder's soloniod when hooked up to city water.Wayne
Reply:Either way is OK.Originally Posted by weldgaultEither way is OK.
Reply:It can still be done.
Reply:it can be done,but its not right and it not good to deadhead a fluid pumpChuckASME Pressure Vessel welder
Reply:It has been done since the early 60's I know of.  John
Reply:So it's just a matter of preferance? Does everyone else agree with that?Wayne
Reply:No. I do not agree that a closed cooling system can be run thru a solonoid to shut off flow.  As has been mentioned, the coolant solonoid is ONLY used when using "city water" as the coolant.  The solonoid simply prevents wasting water.  To shut off the flow of coolant in a "closed system" will cause the pump to fail due to excess head pressure.Additionally, I would recommend that you further research the use of standard automotive "antifreeze" in your coolant system.  There is a whole thread on this subject on the Hobart Weld Talk board (just do a search).  Basically, automotive antifreeze cantains leak prevention additives as well as some other undesirables, which may cause premature torch failure.On your system, as I see it, you are not using a coolant solonoid (Good).  The solonoid I see in your photos, controls the flow of gas not water.Just my .02.Just remember, there is a lot of good info put out on these boards.  There is also a lot of misinformation.  As the end user, it's still up to you to do your own research.  In this case, I would download the owners manual for any of the Miller coolers.  You will see the caution about using machine installed coolant solonoid.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Oops, guess I opened up a behive there. Oh well, like sundown said, it's up to me to be sure the info I get is right. I was looking for the reason why one should or should not connect to the solonoid. Unfortunately until I understood how everything worked, I didn't know which question to ask. The answer is that deadheading the pump will kill it unless it has some sort of relief valve or bypass system.Since I'm planning on using a pump that is tremendously too big I was planning on making a bypass to send most of the water back to the tank. I already have the pump so I might just as well use it. The bypass will require a couple of extra fitting and pieces but I already have those too. You could run my system through the water solonoid but only because of the bypass. Thanks a ton guys I really appreciate you taking the time to help me understand the working of this thing.Wayne
Reply:You could run it thru there if you don't want to keep your torch cooling down in between welding. It could actually boil in the torch head. Every lb of presure is worth 3 degrees increase in the boiling temp. holding pres. while not welding for awhile would be a good thing. Auto anti-freeze boils at like 235 can't say on the tig stuff tho.It (the solenoid) is to save on your water bill when using metered water...imagine if you ran the welder all day every day. maybe not that much trigger time but just running free could add up. Can't remember if the post flow includes the water solenoid but it should IMHO.Miller Dynasty 700Miller 350P with Aluma-pro push-pullMiller 280 Dynasty with expansion card Dynasty 200 DXMigMax 215 Enuff power and hand tools to create one of anything..... but mass produce nothing!!!
Reply:I used a tig so old,,,It flowed thru the welder and just drained outside.The 1 I use now is finicky,if I don't use D.I water it goes crazy on me after awhile.
Reply:I put everything together and testing the machine for the first time this evening. There's a problem. Either there is an abstruction in a hose or solenoid or the solenoid is not functioning. I ran the arc for about 40 seconds total and the torch and hose feeding it got very warm...in fact I could smell plastic melting. I don't think it destroyed it but it won't survive like that for long. Tomorrow I'll attempt to blow out the lines with compressed air. If the issue is the solenoid I'll try to clean it and free it up and test it for operation.Wish me luck,Thanks,Wayne
Reply:Why are you using the solenoid??Miller Dynasty 700Miller 350P with Aluma-pro push-pullMiller 280 Dynasty with expansion card Dynasty 200 DXMigMax 215 Enuff power and hand tools to create one of anything..... but mass produce nothing!!!
Reply:Originally Posted by FusionKingWhy are you using the solenoid??
Reply:Hey OLDDAD,Guess you can take a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. I thought we were pretty clear about "NOT" using a water flow solonoid when using a closed cooling system. Couple more torch rigs and he'll have spent as much as buying a "manufactured" cooler (Coolmate 3, Bernard, etc.).Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:read thishttp://www.thefabricator.com/ArcWeld...le.cfm?ID=1275ChuckASME Pressure Vessel welder
Reply:Originally Posted by chopper5read thishttp://www.thefabricator.com/ArcWeld...le.cfm?ID=1275
Reply:I don't have a system. I was running it through the solenoid because it was hooked to the garden hose. What did I say that made you guys think I had already built a system? Anyway, not matter.  Garden hose connection only right now.Wayne
Reply:Originally Posted by jaded13640I don't have a system. I was running it through the solenoid because it was hooked to the garden hose. What did I say that made you guys think I had already built a system? Anyway, not matter.  Garden hose connection only right now.Wayne
Reply:Chuck, no. I wasn't sure how things operated.Wayne
Reply:I recently bought a used Bernard 3500ss cooler. I also have a homemade tank circulator. Both use a Procon pump but the Bernard has a radiator with a 3 gallon tank. Bernard says to use water unless you are in a freezing area. The water solenoid was for a city water hookup. Every source I've seen, including here, says not to use it when running a closed system, especially when using a Procon which is a positive displacement, self-priming pump.. If you happen to deadhead a Procon, you can easily damage it. In any case, the torch will cool better if run all of the time. I power mine off of the Miller SW 200 power plug. It's on when Tigging. I have a separate switch on the circulator when doing stick, or you could simply unplug the cooler.If buying a Procon, get one of the lesser ones - say 15 gph with about 60 psi. That's really all that you need.Miller Millermatic 252Miller Syncrowave 200Liincoln AC-DC 225Victor O-A Set
Reply:if you need to you can remove the tungsten from the torch turn off gasstart the machine (if your running the HF turn it off) press foot switch see if water comes out the drain if it dose you good to go if not its time yo check the solenoidChuckASME Pressure Vessel welder
Reply:The ubstruction is in the torch's hoses. I tried to blow through the input hose with compressed air. Stuck.I'm going to go back through the posts, someone linked me to the torch company that had pictures on the page. That should tell me if the individual hoses come appart from the torch. If so, I'll dissassemble the torch and try to free up the hose or whatever is stuck. I didn't test the solenoid because I found the blockage to be in the hoses. I assume there's nothing wrong with the solenoid but I'll check it out anyway. Hopefully it's ok and can be used for faucet water cooling is used.Thanks,Wayne
Reply:yes thay do pull the grip down the hoses the power unscrews the gas and water in should be push onChuckASME Pressure Vessel welder
Reply:Thanks Chuck. The power does unscrew and the other two push on with small pieces of wire twisted around the nipple to hold them on.All three are melted shut. Junk.I'll call around tomorrow to price new ones. But first I'll check to see that the torch itself is free.Wayne
Reply:I found a complete torch assembly for about 85 bucks locally. I'll save a bit and get that.Thanks for the help,Wayne
Reply:good keep us posted wen you get it up and runningChuckASME Pressure Vessel welder