Slope control for aluminum?

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OK, now can someone explain what the hell is slope control? My welding teacher didn't get in to much slope discussion.I'm going to be welding up aluminum boats, 1/4 3/16Do i need it?Thanks guys
Reply:In Tig welding, slope is the ramp up or ramp down time.Initial amps are set, then ramp up or slope is set to full welding current.  Its the duration it takes from initial amps to full welding current.  If you are using a foot petal, (pedal?) it means nothing.  Those settings are for using an arc start switch.  Good for when you are welding the same thing over and over, but not for one off jobs unless all you have is an arc start switch. _/-------\_       _ = zero amps ......   / is ramp up current and time,.  ------is welding current,   \ is down slope back to _  zero amps or crater current.My machine can adjust the initial amps, up slope time, welding current, down slope time and crater current......  I just use the foot pedal.When ending an aluminum weld, back off on the pedal slowly to allow the weld to cool slowly so you don't have a big crater.  This is down slope.DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Thanks for the info, David!  So let me get this right if i understand...Say i was welding a long MIG pass on an aluminum hull. The base metal starts to warm up, will the slope compensate for this? LOL, now i understand why the welding teacher didn't want to get in to it.
Reply:Originally Posted by aDreamSoRealThanks for the info, David!  So let me get this right if i understand...Say i was welding a long MIG pass on an aluminum hull. The base metal starts to warm up, will the slope compensate for this? LOL, now i understand why the welding teacher didn't want to get in to it.
Reply:Originally Posted by RojodiabloNo, it is not like that. I'll try to expand a bit on what dave was saying. If you are in tig, and you have your upslope set for.75 second, with say 200 amps. You mash the pedal down to the stop. It will take 3/4 of a second to ramp up the amps to a full 200 after the arc is formed. It's almost like a soft start feature on a drill, VS full power on/ off light switch. Now, downslope is exactly the opposite. If your downslope is set for.75 when you let off the pedal, it will take 3/4 of a second for the amps to fall to zero. I tend to set the upslope and downslope for 0 with aluminum. I would rather just use the pedal. With a rheostat type or a bump switch, both are on the torch type switches, you may use more upslope or downslope. I tend to use some downslope on my SS work. I like the amps falling off slowly, like Dave said, for a smaller crater. If you had downslope on a mig welder, and you may, I would say yes, it may be beneficial to slowly draw down the amps at the end of a weld, for some puddle control with less cratering. But, if you are on a long run, up&downslope will not help. Pulse would be the feature to help control heat input the right way. And for that, you need to talk to PULSER, Not David or me!!!!!!
Reply:I use the Millermatic 350P every day at work welding aluminum production parts.  It's quite a machine.  Took awhile to get use to all the settings though.   I've been welding with it for about 3 years now I think and I'm quite impressed by it, I intend to buy one for myself soon.  What the 350P has for welding aluminum that the other Millermatics dont offer is a hot start feature and a crater feature, as well as run-in speed, in addition to, and part of, the pulse program.   The machine I use is a 2004 or 2005 model.   The 2007 and newer models have more features but they should work about the same as what we have here.  The pulse program on this machine is easier to set than older pulse programs that had more parameters to set and more margin for messing it all up if you didnt know what you were doing.  The computer on this machine makes half the decisions for you, leaving you just enough user adjustment to fine tune it without being able to get it totally off course.  I was use to setting pulse on-time and off-time and normal voltage and wire speed on the old machines we use to weld with, so it took me awhile to get use to this machine's settings.  Actually, I hated the pulse on this one at first and welded without it for a while untill I figured out what all the settings did and how to use them.   Now I like it.The run-in speed is an adjustment for the initial wire speed at the start of the weld, to avoid pop starts or burnback.  It can be adjusted from 25% to I think 150% of the actual wire speed selected on the torch (assuming you are using a push-pull torch with your 350P for feeding aluminum).  This feature is available in both standard mig and mig-pulse modes, in all the material programs (the machine stores different settings for steel, stainless and aluminum). The hot start feature allows you to adjust the initial voltage hotter than the weld voltage for a short time at the beginning of the weld to help establish the puddle quicker and allow weld penetration at the start.  This can be adjusted for % of voltage above set voltage, length of time spent at the higher voltage, and length of ramp time down to normal voltage, as well as wire feed speed during the hot start phase.   I like to adjust the hot start parameters to my own settings.  This is one of the features I find useful.  Hot start is part of the pulse program in the aluminum mode.   Our machines only have pulse in the aluminum mode, but the newer machines have pulse programs for steel and stainless as well. The crater feature, which is also part of the pulse program, allows you to set a different voltage/wire feed speed at the end of the weld to avoid a crater at the stop.  There is also a time adjustment for how long it spends in the crater mode.   I dont use the crater feature much and I dont remember if it is available only in pulse or if it is also accessible in the standard mig mode.Both the crater and hot start features can be turned 'off', or run on 'auto', where the computer sets all the parameters for you, or run in the 'on' position, allowing you to choose all the parameters.In the pulse mode, you choose the wire speed on the torch and the machine automaticaly sets the voltage for you.  There is an 'arc length' adjustment to fine tune the voltage/wire speed relationship.  There is also a 'sharp arc' adjustment, which as far as I can tell is the same thing that other brands call 'arc control' or 'inductance'.   It allows you to soften or stiffen the arc, which also changes the width of the arc cone, and thus the bead width/hieght relationship.  There is an 'inductance' control in the standard mig mode too, controlled by the same knob as the 'sharp arc'.   They appear to do about the same thing, just in different modes.In standard mig mode, you adjust voltage and wire feed speed seperately, as usual for any mig machine.   I have to clarify that when I say 'adjusting the voltage' in the hot start and crater features of the pulse program, the display says you're adjusting the wire feed speed, but actually the machine is adjusting the relationship between the voltage and wire feed speed.In both standard mig and pulse modes, the machine asks you to select the material you're welding (steel, stainless or aluminum), what torch you're using (python, spool gun, or standard mig gun), what wire diameter you're using, and what alloy the wire is.  In aluminum mode you can choose from 5356 or 4043 wire alloys and sizes .035", 1/16" and 3/64", if I remember right.  We use only 4043 .035, so I tend to ignore the other choices when going through the setup menus.   In steel mode, I think you only choose the wire diameter.  I never weld steel or stainless with it so I tend to ignore those menu choices.  I'm not sure exactly what parameters the machine is adjusting internally when you choose a different alloy, but I do know that setting it to 5356 with 4043 wire in the machine causes it to weld horrible, so it must be adjusting something in there.In all modes, there are also pre-flow and post-flow gas timers, and a spot timer.   The pre-flow is helpful, the post-flow seems to just waste gas for what we weld and the spot timer I've not had occasion to use.  If we were welding thicker metal, the post-flow might be useful.To weld aluminum with the 350P, you will need to buy the u-groove drive roll kit for the feed mech and a push-pull torch (we use the Python), or buy a spool gun (I think the one that goes with the 350P is the Spoolmatic series, not the less expensive Spoolmate series used with the 210 migs), which connects directly to the machine with no other controller or drive rolls needed.   I think the aluminum drive roll kit is about $50.  The Python costs about $1500, or it did for us 3 years ago anyways.   Our machines cost our company about $5000 each, all said and done.   There is the Edge push-pull gun, which is less expensive than the Python.   Both are MK torches made for Miller, or maybe Miller manufctures them using MK's design.  Anyways, we order some torch parts from MK and some from Miller for our Pythons.Of the MIG-pulse welders available today, I think the MM350P offers a good value for the money.  It's alot less expensive than buying a seperate power supply, feeder and pulser and it's easy to use, compact, works good and, of the three machines we have at work, 2 have had no problems and the other one has been in for service twice, not for anything catastrophic though.   That's in 3 years of hard, continuous production use, all day, every day, with little maintenance.   I know I probly sound like a Miller ad, but darn, I like this machine .Hopefully that helps ya out.Last edited by DesertRider33; 12-10-2007 at 12:49 AM.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:DR33, that was an awesome review!  Now i have one question about.....In the pulse mode, you choose the wire speed on the torch and the machine automaticaly sets the voltage for you. There is an 'arc length' adjustment to fine tune the voltage/wire speed relationshipHow the hell does that work? It kinda sounds scarry. Can you not just dial in volts yourself in pulse mode? How well does this option work?Thanks bro
Reply:Desertrider 33, are you making my wallet sweat for a reason???!!!!! Now I need a gigantic pulsed mig welder. I have to have one. Thanks a lot!!! That was one of the best write ups I have ever seen. A year's worth of trial and error, and hard gained experience wrapped up in one page. Thank you. Paul.And then, after so much work...... you have it in your hand, and you look over to your side...... and the runner has run off. Leaving you holding the prize, wondering when the runner will return.
Reply:Excellent responses, if I learn much more here I'll have to start buying more equipment LOL.  Thanks for the knowledge guys!Have a Jeep Cherokee?  Click Here!
Reply:Paul and Skwerly, thanks!, and you're welcome!  I feel ya on wanting a new machine!  I can almost taste one of those new machines in my garage now... :P.aDreamsoReal,In the pulse mode, the voltage/wire speed adjustment is 'synergic', which is a fancy word for the machine makes the voltage decision for you after you make the wire feed speed decision.   No, you don't dial in volts yourself like a normal mig welder when in pulse mode.  It does work very well, once you get use to it.   This is similar to how the new Millermatic 140 Auto-Set mig welder is adjusted.   The 350P is only 'synergic' in the pulse mode.   In regular mig mode, the user adjusts the voltage and wire feed speed individually himself, just like any normal mig welder.   I didn't like this synergic attribute of the pulse program AT ALL when I first started welding with the new machine, since I was so use to setting voltage and wire feed speed myself and adjusting pulse parameters seperately with the old machines.  I don't know that it scared me, but it did piss me off enough.  I'm not much of a person for automatic features that leave the operator feeling controlled by the machine (I'm not that excited about the electronicaly shifted overdrive in most new car transmissions either!),  so it was kind of a trust/control issue between me and the machine that took me a while to give in to.  I kept switching back and forth between standard mig and pulse modes throughout the days, fooling around with the pulse for awhile trying to understand it, then switching back to mig when the pulse started pissing me off.   Once I got use to the idea that the new machine does a fine job of setting the voltage on it's own when in pulse and learned to use the 'arc length' control to make the small adjustments to the voltage/wire feed speed relationship, and learend how to use all the other features as well to make it weld how I wanted it to, I started really enjoying welding with it instead of fighting with it.   It does put up a good fight!      One benefit of the synergic aspect of the pulse mode is, with only the wire feed speed to adjust, changing material thickness, direction of travel, or joint type from one weld to another is very simple, just adjust the wire feed speed knob on the torch and you're ready to weld, the computer handles the rest.   The machine welds with the same characteristics you've already dialed in, just at a different heat level.  Changing back, just set the wire feed speed to the same number on the display as before and you're instantly making the same weld again.  This is great for the manufacturing we do at work, where we make a whole lot of the same welds over and over again on each part, but we use different settings on different parts and sometimes weld a mixed group of parts together rather than a batch of one part untill they're all done, then start a batch of another.  The ability to switch back and forth between different settings quickly and accurately so we can make repeatable welds with minimal fooling with machine adjustments is a great production time saver with the machines.      With the old machines, we set voltage and wire feed speed seperately, as typical with most mig welders.  We did this by feel, since there was no display telling us what the wire speed was and the mechanical voltage pointer/scales on the machines were not all that accurate, so we would count how many turns we made on the rheostat so we would know how many turns to turn back to set it back to the same previous voltage, then do a little fine tuning of the on-time and off-time on the pulser to get it just right.  We put pencil marks on the pulser dials so we didn't have to remember where to turn them back to for our various settings.   Changing the machine for a different material thickness or weld was kind of a hassle and took a bit of time.  We tried to do our work in batches as much as possible to save time.  This new machine is much quicker and easier to adjust on the fly than the old ones.  Last edited by DesertRider33; 12-11-2007 at 01:04 AM.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Bro, that's awesome! Thanks for taking the time to help me out. I guess i just have to trust that the machine is going to take care of it itself. I'm sure it's going to be a strong learning curve. Thanks again for your time.
Reply:Desert rider33,I appreciate your comments.  I have the advanced panel on order for my Lincoln V350.  It will be here any day.  I bought it for steel, I would like to see pulsed spray out of position.  If it does it, it will be well worth it.  I have the spool gun, but not the box that goes in between.  Once I do get it, I will be able to use the spool gun on my ranger 250 too.The panel is more synergec   (I don't know how the hell to spell it).  Pick steel, stainless, 4043, 5356, metal core, or nickel.  Choose wire size and gas.Set the wire speed with the big knob.  Adjust the arc length with the big knob.  Fine tune the arc with the arc control knob.   Left is reduce frequency,  and increases background current.  Right is increased frequency, decrease back ground current.  It also has pulse on pulse for aluminum.  I think its supposed to look like tig.Can't waitDavid Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:David,Your pulse board sounds like what Lincoln describes they have in the Powermig 350MP.   It seems to me to be a more advanced pulse program than what the Millermatic 350P has, especially with that pulse-on-pulse mode.  The Millermatic pulse controls are probly a bit simpler to operate than the Lincolns, and they do work fine, but it would be nice to know exactly what the machine is adjusting, in standardized units, such as frequency and current.  'Arc Length' and 'Sharp Arc' are kind of abstract ideas grasp from a technical view.  Frequency and current make more sense to me.  I think this is why it took me awhile to understand the machine and how to use it, I couldn't logically figure out exactly what it was I was adjusting, so I had no intuition as to what direction to adjust it to achieve what I wanted.   Now I'm use to it and it doesn't bother me at all.   When our company was deciding on new machines to replace our aging migs, I wish the manager at that time had requested a Powermig 350MP in addition to the Miller 350P for us to try out.  I suggested it, but that's about as far as it went.  I would have liked to have been able to compare them directly side-by-side to feel how each machine welded the same frames.   Miller let us try a demo 350P in our shop for quite a long time before we ordered them.   I guess Lincoln just didn't have a demo machine available for us to try, or maybe our management got scared off by the higher price tag of the red machine (about $1000 more than blue).   It would have been nice to at least try it out though.   Let us know how you like your new pulser once you get it all up and running.   Sounds like you're going to have alot of fun with the new toy!  MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op