Building hydraulic press---advice needed

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Not sure if this is the right place for the question, but I'm building a hydraulic forging press for my shop.  I just got a 24 ton cylinder, and the other day a 295 amp AC stick machine.  I really am a big fan of this press by Claiborne  http://home.comcast.net/~eellis2/Ell...ulicpress.htmland I want to build a similar one.  My question is about using my AC machine to fabricate the "H-Frame" press.  I am going tomorrow to a place that deals in mostly low-carbon structural stuff.  Cutoff I-beam, channel...  Would the stick machine have the penetration to really do some strong welds?  I'm hoping to get I-beam with a 3/8" thickness.  Also planning to deeply bevel the edges and gusset/brace the corners with some 1/4"x3" stuff I got from work.  Probably go with 6011 rod.I'm just a little paranoid---seeing what a monster this cylinder is an thinking about what would happen if the welds fail catastrophically.Any advice would be appreciated.  I'm studying MIG at school, but haven't stick welded since high-school.  I'm just a little worried, because most of the info I can find on AC welders is about the disadvantage.  I don't mind cleaning up a little spatter, but wonder about the lower penetration compared to DC.ThanksIt's better to curse the darkness than to set yourself on fire.
Reply:Looks like a nice project! Be sure to post picts as you go.I've seen 50ton manual presses built so I can't see why it wouldn't work for you if the steel is heavy enough and you weld fairly well. I assume this is not in line with a power hammer with multiple repetitve shocks. More of a squeeze and lift, squeeze and lift motion as opposed to BANG,BANG,BANG.If you clean it well and bevel it, I'd probably use 7018AC instead of 6011. If you wanted more penetration, run the 6011 first and cap with 7018AC. Or prep it and tack it at home and drag it into school and burn it in with the mig. I'll assume that they have something bigger than a 110v mig or use their DC stick machine. My instructor for mig and tig was always willing to let us bring in things to work on in class. Your instructor might even help you out with any critical welds you might be worried about. If its to big to put in your car say, see if you can at least break it down into manageable pieces and take those in. Do final assembly at home.
Reply:Yeah, it is more of a "gentle" squeezing the press gives.  That is one of the nice things about a press over a power-hammer.  I've been doing my damascus work using the Armstrong!  You can imagine the work to draw out and thin down billets a couple inches thick...I will talk with the school and see.  Once it's tacked up, I could do it in no time with the MIG units they have there.  Millermatics with 100% duty cycle.They he did tell me I could do the delicate work there.  Like building the forging dies.  Even access to a surface grinder to true up critical surfaces.I can't wait to get it going.It's better to curse the darkness than to set yourself on fire.
Reply:The ac machine will do fine and if I still had the 20lbs of 7018AC I threw away I would send it to you and say good luck. I've had much better results with Excalibur on my ac machines than with 7018ac.The difference between art and craft is the quality of the workmanship. I am an artist.
Reply:Oh, I would definitely go for 100% penetration on that thing, and I am not talking about electrode penetration but weld penetration. Twentyfour tons is a lot of oomph.The difference between art and craft is the quality of the workmanship. I am an artist.
Reply:I totally agree Roger.  It IS a lot of "mojo"--24-30 tons!  I worked on a press cobbled up from an old log splitter, and even at "only" 10 tons, it creeked and warped under the strain.The plan is to weld it up with 100% penetration, then gusset the critical corners with 1/4" plate (I chop-sawed them up today).  Then probably add more reinforcing...I don't think you could put in too much?  I have a book written by a guy named Dr. Jim Batson that goes into numbers for structural pieces.  A lot of info on welds, shear pins, I-beam....Didn't do too well at the junk yard today, but found a guy who deals entirely in archetechural stuff--I and H beam, big angle and channel...It's better to curse the darkness than to set yourself on fire.
Reply:That stuff is hard to come by used. I worked in a fab shop in 1980 that had a shop built break that wouldn't give a good break. I got the job of making it work. I guess I got lucky as they are still using that thing. I just put some heavy (2" plate) reinforcing across the top. Sounds like a sound plan to me.The difference between art and craft is the quality of the workmanship. I am an artist.
Reply:I am not sure where the mechanical advantage comes from but an H frame press will have more capacity than its ram if I remember right 20 ton presses use 12 ton rams but I may be wrong