SS manifold welds.

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How are these people getting the rainbow/shiny look on there welds?I cant get my welds to look like that, could it be that i am just flowing the gas to much or not enough? i have the flow set to about 15 to 20 with the purge system on. I am using a gas nozzle/cup, i have my tungsten not sticking out far, ive used a 3/32 and 1/16 tungsten. Ived cleaned my material. ive tryed welding with low amps and high amps. ive tryed going fast and slow. I have been practicing for about a good week, around 2-3 hours a day, ive only made about maybe 15-20 welds. I just dont get it.here is mine. most recent weldsHere are the pics of the shiny welds/rainbow color.
Reply:How cool are those welds!Good workA good guess is better than a bad measurement
Reply:I wouldn't model myself after guys that weld manifolds if I were you.  There are very few guys out there that use the proper technique for pipe welding.To me, I see a large heat affected zone, very slow travel speed, and high heat.  As for your welds (constructive criticism):You are likely not getting full penetration (evenly) with a weld that narrow.  The welds also need more filler metal to get it past flush with the outside surface.  You will get some prettier color by using a flapperhweel on the outside of the pipe prior to welding.  Don't worry much about the color though.  It's actually oxidation and most pipe welding jobs will require that you brush it off.  All these chopper shows have made it such that people have some misconceptions about what is good and what is not.
Reply:the last 6 pic's are not from me, just example pics of what i am trying to figure out, on why and how to get the shiny/rainbow color welds.
Reply:Originally Posted by EngloidI wouldn't model myself after guys that weld manifolds if I were you.  There are very few guys out there that use the proper technique for pipe welding.To me, I see a large heat affected zone, very slow travel speed, and high heat.  As for your welds (constructive criticism):You are likely not getting full penetration (evenly) with a weld that narrow.  The welds also need more filler metal to get it past flush with the outside surface.  You will get some prettier color by using a flapperhweel on the outside of the pipe prior to welding.  Don't worry much about the color though.  It's actually oxidation and most pipe welding jobs will require that you brush it off.  All these chopper shows have made it such that people have some misconceptions about what is good and what is not.
Reply:Disepyon, I would not be so hard on myself; those are decent welds you are making. A little more filler, and maybe more backpurge to lessen the oxidation is all I could say. Maybe get the puddle formed a little bigger, and then add a bit more filler with more frequent dips to increase fill amount, and speed. It will equal less time on the weld, which might give you more of the consistent color you are looking for, not htat it matters much.And then, after so much work...... you have it in your hand, and you look over to your side...... and the runner has run off. Leaving you holding the prize, wondering when the runner will return.
Reply:Originally Posted by RojodiabloDisepyon, I would not be so hard on myself; those are decent welds you are making. A little more filler, and maybe more backpurge to lessen the oxidation is all I could say. Maybe get the puddle formed a little bigger, and then add a bit more filler with more frequent dips to increase fill amount, and speed. It will equal less time on the weld, which might give you more of the consistent color you are looking for, not htat it matters much.
Reply:Disepyon what schedule is that pipe your welding, and what is your joint prep, (beveled, or butted up tight with no gap)? Seeing how you have such a short coupon, are you cooling it down between welds? From what I was taught it was understood that if your weld turns black you just burnt out a lot of chrome and nickel, kind of counter productive seeing how those are the elements that give stainless its desirable qualitys. Usually it means it got too hot. Either amperage too high or not enough travel speed, or maybe both. Keep it up you will figure it out.Good judgement comes from experience.Experience comes from bad judgement.
Reply:you might want to try to polish those welds you have already done and see what they look like then. just an idea.millermatic 210miller 375 xtreamlinde power supply hda 200 tigcentury 110 flux corelincoln buzz boxlet the work speak for itself i do!!!check mine out at http://www.eyepoppincustoms.com
Reply:Originally Posted by disepyonHow would you go about getting the penetration part all the way around? leave a small gap or just grind the bevel down more?i have tryed leaving a gap and welding around it, but the gap just keeps closing in on me, even when i weld opposite sides.
Reply:yes i am beveling them.Went back out and tryed again, this time made the bevel bigger and more pointed, Sadly my backpurging leaked, and the inside was sugaring alot, not sure if i did not have it flowing enough or it was leaking through the cracks in between the pipes. I dabbed more and tryed to make the weld wider.this is sch.10 304 im working with. using 1/16 308 filleri grinded these my self, for i ran out of prebeveled pipesmaybe this was to big of bevel, the weld was really huge/wide?Hehe, i do not have pics of the weld, for it is embarrasing to show, but it did turn out a darkish greyish/blue tint color.
Reply:That's about the bevel you will need....but with a gap in it.  Most welders will make the weld with either 2 or three passes.  It will draw up quite a bit by the time it's done.Use masking tape to tape up the parts that are leaking gas.  Only open up about 1/4 of the pipe joint that you're going to weld next.  That helps keep the gas in.
Reply:Originally Posted by EngloidThat's about the bevel you will need....but with a gap in it.  Most welders will make the weld with either 2 or three passes.  It will draw up quite a bit by the time it's done.Use masking tape to tape up the parts that are leaking gas.  Only open up about 1/4 of the pipe joint that you're going to weld next.  That helps keep the gas in.
Reply:looks like youve got to much heat into the metal, try and move faster.  With stainless you have to pull the puddle along, its a hard concept to grasp.  with a bevel like that i would put in a root pass, and cap it with a weave.  Your welds looks good, stainless is tough, keep at it.
Reply:Originally Posted by disepyonive heard some people say, with the right bevel, 1 pass should be good for this sch.10, but then again alot of people get there knowledge from different places.
Reply:Originally Posted by EngloidYou will find it hard to control the amount of heat it takes to do that consistently.  Stainless tends to have a wandering puddle at high heat.  Look how so many of these top manifold builders can only weld about 3/4" without stopping and letting the metal cool.  It means a lot of stops and starts.  Notice also how you find so many pictures showing the inside of their welds...and those are almost always posted by people that buy the manifolds, not the ones that make them.I considered it, tried it, and found the same thing you did.  That sticky mess it leaves is horrible to get off.  They make a high temp purge tape that works great.  It's not cheap, so most people use masking tape.3/32" Tig wire, or maybe even 1/8", depending on how much it's drawing up on you, and how you like the gap while welding.
Reply:Originally Posted by disepyonyou were saying that to fill the gap,(from your experience) you just left the rod in the gap and melted it over? did you do a weave patten or a straight weld? i have tryed this before, but when i try, it seems like the filler rod wants to glob up on me and melt more then needed.
Reply:Some "secrets."The coloration is caused by burning oil or whateverat 975º, they are oxides. The colores are random and cannot really be controlled. Too much gas pressure and you will see brown dust around the HAZ.To do good looking welding you need the right set up.WP-20 torch 3/32 2 percent tungsten. 3/32 stick out. A gas lens and #9 ceramic cup. (in general) Filler wire diameter is critical! .045 diameter.Machine set to about 150 amps on the machine. But of coarse the foot pedal regulates that.You have to count 1234.1234,1234, TRY IT and you will start to see results.I welded stainless for 11 years just on stainless.tubing.That exhaust header photo is not a #1 job. Trust me. Maybe #2 or #3 level job.I tested welders in SF bay area and out of 10 people that took a test on real coupons only 3 actually could give good results with even beads evenly spaced. I do not tell the applicants how they stack up. i only tell them if they pass or not. They can always come back and try again.Believe it or not there are places where production TIG is done ALL DAY LONG.and the welders get VERY good.One more secret HOT,CLOSE, FAST  Remember that.Last edited by Donald Branscom; 05-18-2008 at 08:34 PM.
Reply:Donald and Engloid are right on the money. Initially, it takes seat time and patience. When you TIG SS, aluminum or MS every day, it becomes 2nd nature.John -  fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!-  bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:Thanks Donald and Engloid,I do not have a wp-20 torch, i have a wp-17, ill try my best and get the best results i can with the setup i have now, then upgrade later.Does having a water cooled torch help out that much more than a air cooled?Ill try your counting method out and hopefully it will help me. just to help me understand better, are you saying count to 4 per dab of filler rod, then move and count again? or each count is a dab of filler rod?I ran out of some materials today, so ill have to wait till tomorrow to go buy some more then its off to practicing again.
Reply:The WP-20 is a smaller torch and easier to hold than the air cooled WP17.After about 2 inches of weld the air cooled torch will start getting hot in your hand. The WP17 will use more shielding gas because it is being used to cool as well as keeping away the oxygen.The counting... add a dab of filler on each count. By counting it will give a consistant look to your welds. Make sure the tungsten is sharpened to look like a pencil, 70º .Watch your starts and stops.BTW... some of the welding photo examples were VERY good and the photos were good quality. Thanks to the provider of the photos.Last edited by Donald Branscom; 05-18-2008 at 10:28 PM.
Reply:i have another question, sorry for so many questions, this might sound dumb.I know that you are  not supposed to use 308L filler rod for the mild steel head flange to the 304L piping, so what would be used? 309L?
Reply:309l is what should be used to join mild steel to stainless...I quickly scimmed the post...do you purge your welds? I see that you don't use much or any gap when you weld...you should have some gap for proper pen...your pictures look pretty good...but I cant count how many manifolds have been bought from the internet that people have brought to me to repair and even reweld!!!  As far as the color...wire brush the welds while they are warm and the color will disapear...mostly...if you can't get rid of the color, there are 2 alternitives...they make a chemical that removes the color from stainless that will make it shine...or you can sand blast or powder coat the manifolds...that cost more but makes them look nicer.Jonesy
Reply:Originally Posted by Jonesy70309l is what should be used to join mild steel to stainless...I quickly scimmed the post...do you purge your welds? I see that you don't use much or any gap when you weld...you should have some gap for proper pen...your pictures look pretty good...but I cant count how many manifolds have been bought from the internet that people have brought to me to repair and even reweld!!!  As far as the color...wire brush the welds while they are warm and the color will disapear...mostly...if you can't get rid of the color, there are 2 alternitives...they make a chemical that removes the color from stainless that will make it shine...or you can sand blast or powder coat the manifolds...that cost more but makes them look nicer.
Reply:man, i am impressed with that counting technique, and the hot,fast, close thing.welds looks a lot consistent, and the color of the weld is getting to what i want.the penetration is getting better, but still having that problem with the gap closing in on me when reaching those last welds,Sorry i do not have any pics now, camera battery went dead on me , so it is charging up.