Newbie help: oxy-acet welding of angle iron

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I've been learning oxy-acetylene welding, pretty much on my own (a bit isolated where I live).  Don't be alarmed, I already know how to braze & have acquired good safety habits from a couple of books and a video.Anyhow, I've got a problem with technique in a certain situation. I've been trying to weld two pieces of 1-inch mild-steel angle iron, stock is a touch less than 1/8" in thickness. The two lengths are clamped together so that they run side by side and their cross-section hence forms a "T", if you can picture it. I've been tack welding along the top of the "T", every six inches or so, and then attempting a tidy and penetrating seam to permanently join the two adjacent top surfaces together strongly.Problem seems to be that because the vertical portions of the angle iron pieces stick down 1" deep below the line I'm trying to weld, it does not puddle along that line like a butt joint with flat 1/8" stock. Instead, the vertical metal seems to act as a sort of heat sink, if that makes sense.I can get a puddle, but it tends to spread wide on the top surface of the angle iron. When I finally get it hot enough that the two top surfaces are puddling and the filler rod is flowing in, I get beads that turn out to be 1/2-inch wide, and not very tidy looking!It seems like a learning situation worth pursuing. I'm taking this as a challenge in acquiring oxy-fuel welding skills. Can you offer any advice? Thanks.JoelLast edited by Joel_BC; 04-04-2008 at 05:18 PM.Reason: spelling
Reply:try grinding a v groove where you want the bead
Reply:Hi.  Have you done it this way before?I'll try it.  I've seen it illustrated for but joints with thicker stock - like 3/16-inch and thicker.I'd judge you can't grind too much, or it will cause the angle-iron pieces to fall apart.  But I could be careful and try to make sure I don't grind it down too far.Joel
Reply:Hey Joel, Try moving to the next size of tip. In welding school we foind the importance of using the right application for the job amung other things, and it all started with OxyFeul welding. I also live in a small town in bc like you do.Nothing Ever Got Done By Quitting, Never Give Up.
Reply:I agree move to a larger tip.  If it take an excessive long time to get a puddle then the tip is too small.As long as you are using a torch, don't over look brazing as a process.
Reply:make sure you keep your inner blue flame close to the metal, about a 1/16". the further you are away will spread the heat out making a large weld puddle and taking longer to heat up.When you dip your filler give it a good long dip, it will help cool the puddle off.  If you have to pull the torch away and let the metal cool down as the puddle gets too big.hope that helps, get some pics going if you can
Reply:drivethruboy, you recommended: "make sure you keep your inner blue flame close to the metal, about a 1/16". the further you are away will spread the heat out making a large weld puddle and taking longer to heat up."With the blue cone 1/16" from the metal, I guess you have to depend on a high enough gas working pressure (plus keeping the tip angled at about 45 degrees) so that you don't get a lot of popping, right?J.
Reply:hi joelno i have not tried that butit seemed like a great idea loli have started a thread on the other forum here"migsticktigoxyfueldisciplines" a few days ago on gas welding--lots  of good helpthere,  as well. this forum is a gold mine. i've  gotten great help on  everything i've asked about.goodluck
Reply:Put up a few pics and I might be able to help but I am just not seeing what you are trying to describe. It also helps a lot to see the welds you are getting when trying to give a diagnosis or to offer tips.The difference between art and craft is the quality of the workmanship. I am an artist.
Reply:The first and second photo is of the tee made of 1/8" angle.  The first is nonpreheated metal.  The second is after the flanges were heated to cherry red.  The second flowed better, however I had the pressures at 10acet and 40oxy.  My torch doesn't allow a low adjustment with such high pressures.  the filler was  1/8 rg-60 non copper coated.  Also, I think the flange needs to be heated well.  It is so jagged because the puddle formed around the seam and was difficult to get middle to catch up with the sides of the puddle.The last was fuse welded 3/16" angle.The last is a part on a gate I welded a few weeks ago, just welded it with a torch because the torch was next to me. The only reason my torch is still set up is because I was doing some straightening on a cantilever gate in early March.  Rarely do I ever use a torch.
Reply:Just for giggles I read this and went back out and grabbed the torch. Now keep in mind I do O/A about as often as I rip the exhaust out of my hunting rig, which ain't very dern often.  Didn't have any 1/8th angle scraps but I had some sheet that was bit less than 1/8th. Number 2 victor around 10 Acetylene and whatever it was on Oxygen, probably 35ish. The beads on the widest end were using 1/8th filler which, in my mind, was too big. By the time you get the base metal hot enough to melt the filler it's ready to flow south on you. The bead at the skinny end was done with some scrap .035 wire laying around. That was about right. Melt the edges of the base and feed in a bit of filler every now and then to keep it flowing and get some flux in there. Not as good as tapwelders tho.  Attached Images
Reply:Originally Posted by weldbeadtry grinding a v groove where you want the bead
Reply:Thanks for the tips, info & help.  Oh, yeah...  and the pics.  Definitely IS a help, too.Joel
Reply:There's still that delicate balance I'm trying to find, or a skill I'm trying to acquire.  I've still got that greenhorn's problem of either not getting a penetrating weld, or else burning a hole in the steel!   I'm speaking of producing the bead on the top (flat surface) of the T).As I've played with tip size & pressure, I've been finding that using a smaller tip with more gas pressure seems to penetrate but also result, for me, in occasional holes - even when I make sure I don't have an oxidizing flame.  A larger tip (and I've been trying them with tip size up to #4 Victor) with "normal" pressure seems easier for me to handle, though the flame can seem a bit soft.  I get puddling on the top surface where the two pieces meet, but not necessarily penetration.Maybe the "cure" is just lots of practice?J.
Reply:Originally Posted by Joel_BCThere's still that delicate balance I'm trying to find, or a skill I'm trying to acquire.  I've still got that greenhorn's problem of either not getting a penetrating weld, or else burning a hole in the steel!   I'm speaking of producing the bead on the top (flat surface) of the T).As I've played with tip size & pressure, I've been finding that using a smaller tip with more gas pressure
Reply:Okay.  I still practice this joint with O-A just to improve my technique.  The penetration & beads are improving, so thanks everybody!  But now another question for your advice...  Okay, I'm welding the seam on the (flat) top of the T , and I've ground each piece to about 45 degrees.  So - put together and clamped - there's a little 90-degree-angle groove running along the seam.  This is to hasten & improve penetration.  Now with my blue cone about 1/16"-1/8" from the metal, I'm heating in this groove to get to yellow-hot and then hotter still so as to form the puddle.  My torch-tip angle is roughly 45 degrees, and I'm keeping the tip in motion by making small circles.And I'm getting a lot of pops as I move along the seam.  Do you "old pro's" get pops and just accept them, or can you control the tip, gas pressure, and tip heating so that you rarely get them?  Thanks for any feedback...Joel
Reply:Shouldn't have any pops unless you do something dumb and stick your tip against what your welding, LOL. I'm guessing you are setting your flame too low for the size tip you are using and that makes it pop. Try lighting your torch with the oxygen completely off. Turn the flame up until it flares about 1 3/8" from the tip, then turn on your oxygen until you get a neutral flame and see what happens now. 1 3/8" is not set in stone, thats just close. Popping is the result of not enough gas pressure at the tip. I set my regulators with a little more pressure available than the tip needs and control the flame with the valves. Trying to set your flame with the regulators is a pain and completely unnecessary. The amount of heat a tip will produce is variable by quite a bit but you need the gas available at the torch instead of having to change the regulators. When welding the flat side of your angle iron you are heating a lot more metal than welding the edges. This is not a problem when arc welding but the O/A flame only produces 60% of the heat an electric arc does so you have to allow for it. If I were welding this I would set my tip for the flat side and depend on a faster welding speed for the thin side.Keep on working with this and you will figure it out.