To buy a welder or not

admin

Hi everyone, I want to know if welding is something that makes sense for me to purchase and learn.I don't know the first thing about welding.  I'm good with mechanical things and some electric. I took some auto mechanics in high school and some at the community college, as well as wood working in high school.  I make repairs to my own vehicle and some close friends vehicles from time to time.  For a living, I work for the County doing paperwork.I do my home repairs including sweating plumbing copper pipe joints with a simple propane torch.I've always wondered if it would make sense to add some kind of welder to my home/auto tools in my garage.I live downtown in an older house with a detached garage on 110 volts but I could probably upgrade to 220 volts if needed... I don't know anything about welding, how much knowledge and time it takes to learn about it, what the ideal welder would be for me, how many metals and welding jobs it and I would be capable of doing.I don't relish adding another tool to my garage if I won't use it much considering it's not a large garage, or relish the expense and time to learn, however I think welding machines are less expensive than they use to be and I may enjoy being able to repair or create things with a welder.I'm 43 years old now.  Would I just be better off paying someone when an occasional welding need comes along? I don't even know how much a welding job costs or how easy a welder is to find.  I suppose a muffler shop would offer some welding services.Occasionally I have something that could use welding.  Currently I have that could use welding:A cheap made in China aluminum ornate round patio table that has 2 small matching chairs.  The table is broke in two places from when a piece of wood sheeting fell on it in a wind storm.20 made in China cast iron I believe, decorative ankle high flower bed border fencing.  Each piece has two spike legs.  At least one of the two spike legs broke off in my hard soil when someone stepped on these border fencing.An ornate cast iron-I believe, lamp with mirror, that has a broken arm.---I don't know the cost of having someone weld these or even of they are reasonably weldable or if a welding machine I could purchase would be reasonably capable (strength, time spent, cost effective) of repairing these.I may be better just throwing these items away and buying new...I don't know.It seems that things I need repaired are usually made in China and are generally flimsy items. I've thought if I got a welder and learned welding, I could one day make a metal framed with glass panels patio cover using some old glass panels I have.I tried these propane torch "welding sticks" I bought from J.C. Whitney auto supply for repairing aluminum and they didn't work.  I see google brought up a site www.aluminumrepair.comwhich sells some kind of brazing rods that don't require a welder but it looks like I'd have to get something hotter than a propane torch and I don't know if these really work or if they are a rip off. There's so much welding information out there and alternatives to welding machines.I'm going to just have to rely on you to help me decide.Thanks for your time and any advice!
Reply:Take a look at some projects on the miller and lincoln websites.If you think you would ever do some things like that or like are on here it might help you decide.I have a 110 hobart welder I use for hobby and small projects and really enjoy it.I cant do heavy stuff or aluminum but I can get that done by friends if it is a need.I have made things like a metal rolling table and a trailer dolly and lawn tractor trailer.If you start you will be hooked.pro-level dumpster diver                                     Hobart 125EZ
Reply:If you have a community college near you take a class, or even a quality weld shop...check it out and if it trips your trigger then go for it !! There's no sense spending the kind of coin it takes to get DECENT equipment if you don't have a clue...if it does trip your trigger don't buy less than DECENT equipment...and ENJOY !!Anything worth doing is worth doing RIGHT
Reply:I'd have to get something hotter than a propane torch.
Reply:Thanks, So a oxy fuel torch is the most versatile for the amateur like me?  I read that an arc welder is more popular, no?Is paying someone to weld something expensive?  I mean the cost of these welding machines/equipment is in the hundreds.What can't an oxy fuel torch do (can't do aluminum what else), sounds like you can braze with it too?I'll check out the Miller and Lincoln sites.Jim
Reply:Hey! The 1st Welding outfit I had was an Oxygen -acetylene set-up I wouldn't have been able to work on cars for the last 20 years without It You could weld and/or braze all the things you listed broken and move up to electric welding if you got interested Thanks!
Reply:I was in something of the same delima as yourself, trying to decide what my first welder should be. Look at it this way - say you buy that $250-$400 arc/mig welder, you still have no ability to cut or braze. a heavy duty OFW setup will cost you about the same as a cheep arc welder, but you can do infinitly more with it.Rent the bottles, get the 100lbs ones, i rented both of mine for $120/year they cost $30-$40 to fill up apeace and generally last me a month of using them 4 days a week...
Reply:Originally Posted by JIMTMCDANIELSThanks, So a oxy fuel torch is the most versatile for the amateur like me?  I read that an arc welder is more popular, no?Is paying someone to weld something expensive?  I mean the cost of these welding machines/equipment is in the hundreds.What can't an oxy fuel torch do (can't do aluminum what else), sounds like you can braze with it too?I'll check out the Miller and Lincoln sites.Jim
Reply:Jim,Different tools have different uses.  Some can be used for overlapping uses, some are specialized tools.Regarding buying a welder, you current 'broken' items would take higher end and varied equipment to weld.  The broken aluminum would take a TIG machine ($$$$) or a high-end MIG machine ($$$) to weld.  The broken cast iron would take a brazing repair or welding with $$$ nickle welding rods.Best advice would be to take an Intro-to-Welding course at a local community or vo-tech or adult education school.  This way you learn some safety and how's and why's and how-to's.  If you learn and like it, you'll have a better idea of what you can and can't do with what equipment.An oxy-fuel (most often the fuel is acetylene, others could be propane or MAPP or some others) torch can be used to weld steel, braze many metals, heat things up, and cut carbon steel, all with the right tips and attachments.  It can not cut metals other than carbon steel, even if it can make them very-very hot and melt them.Look through and read the articles and tips at Lincoln and Miller and also ESAB (www.esabna.com assuming you are in North America, pick the appropriate world region from esab.com if needed).  You'll hopefully learn some background and plusses and minuses about different equipment and processes.
Reply:Originally Posted by MoonRiseJim,Different tools have different uses.  Some can be used for overlapping uses, some are specialized tools.  The broken aluminum would take a TIG machine ($$$$) or a high-end MIG machine ($$$) to weld.  .An oxy-fuel (most often the fuel is acetylene, others could be propane or MAPP or some others) torch can be used to weld steel, braze many metals, heat things up, and cut carbon steel, all with the right tips and attachments.  It can not cut metals other than carbon steel, even if it can make them very-very hot and melt them..
Reply:Jim,Post yer location- there may be someone near you that could let you try some equipment.EdEd Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:I agree with taking a class. Oxy fuel can be used to fix almost any thing but does require more practice than mig for example. Oxy fuel to do alum is beyond most welders using oxy fuel, so while its posible its not really practical. You may be able to braze the alum however.My instructor was happy to see students bring in projects that they wanted to do in class. He'd help you learn what was needed and if it was just a small thing that was beyond your skill he'd weld it for you as a class example.My class was primarily stick, but he also showed mig, tig and let you do oxy if thats what you wanted. Cutting with an oxy torch was covered first night.This should give you a good idea what the processes will and won't do and give you some backgound as to whether its for you or not.Good luck.
Reply:Like olddad and DSW said. Take a class. It's reasonably inexpensive and you get your feet wet without buying anything but a book in most cases. It will also give you the chance to get an idea of how the different processes can benefit you.There is only one real trick to being able to O/A weld aluminum. That is knowing when it's time to add the filler and move on. I have used it many times for patching holes and cracks in aluminum boats, but it takes time and practice to be able to do it. I've also used Tig for the same thing and the only real difference is the Tig allows you more control. With aluminum the heavier the material gets the easier the other processes become. Once you hit a certain point Tig on aluminum becomes difficult. Some cast irons can be easily welded and some can't be welded at all. Brazing generally works fairly well, but occasionally you run across some that it just won't stick to. I have done a lot of cast iron repair and I wouldn't recommend that a beginner try it. Go to Lincoln's website and read the article on it under "Ask the experts". It's not terribly technical and it is easy to understand and will give you a good idea of what you are looking at.I charge 75 an hour to weld anything with a one hour minimum, but special or expensive electrodes are in addition to that. Some cast iron electrodes are very expensive (the mig wire I sometimes use on cast iron is 40+ dollars per pound). rates may be different in your area. It would likely be much cheaper for you to take them to a shop and have it done. If you don't know what you are doing either can be ruined very quickly. Keep in mind it always costs more to have someone else's mess fixed than it does to just have it done by someone who knows what they are doing to start with.I'm not trying to discourage you. Just trying to let you know what you are looking at.The difference between art and craft is the quality of the workmanship. I am an artist.
Reply:Originally Posted by DSW Oxy fuel to do alum is beyond most welders using oxy fuel, so while its posible its not really practical. .
Reply:Originally Posted by JIMTMCDANIELSThanks, So a oxy fuel torch is the most versatile for the amateur like me?  I read that an arc welder is more popular, no?Is paying someone to weld something expensive?  I mean the cost of these welding machines/equipment is in the hundreds.What can't an oxy fuel torch do (can't do aluminum what else), sounds like you can braze with it too?I'll check out the Miller and Lincoln sites.Jim
Reply:I think you need a welder for sure!If you hate it, you can make me a "screamin'" deal on a slightly used machine!I'm happy to send a list of prospective machines I'd... er... um... I mean "you'd" be interested in!The best things in life all come on a stick!