Forming Rebar with an Arc Welder...

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Hi...  Does anyone have any proven, or even just possible ideas for bending/forming rebar with an Arc Welder ?    If I can get hold of some, I'm going to try and use Carbon Electrodes to heat the rebar in the section where I want it bent.  Don't know yet exactly what the beejesus I'm doing; but it seems to me that it should work.    I have to work "Cheaply" because I'm retired, and my grandkids have this bad habit of always wanting to eat; so I'm looking for a process in which I don't have to use-up any of my more expensive electrodes.  I don't have anything other than a little Clarke 95E; and a Lincoln 225/125 AC/DC Arc Welders.  Any advice you folks can throw my way will certainly help; or at the very least, cut down on some experimentation on my part.Thanks !Ed VA"It's not impossible until you prove it's impossible to yourself."
Reply:twin carbon arc torchlast I saw, Lincoln still makes one as an accessory... listed as an option for the AC225 and the operator manual is still on their web site (K1876-1 mentioned in http://content.lincolnelectric.com/p...ature/e230.pdf ... manual IM199: http://content.lincolnelectric.com//...r/im/IM199.pdf), thought the manual goes back to the 1960's. Other companies may supply them as well, or you could probably make one up yourself.Last edited by enlpck; 11-19-2008 at 03:27 PM.
Reply:Hi There "enlpck"...  I've already talked to the Lincoln folks about pricing and availability; but they tell me it's no longer manufactured/supported/sold.  Out of luck there.  Any other ideas ?  Another member has shown me some picks of brazing with an arc welder; and he was successful in brazing several parts together.  Naturally, he's more or less a Pro, with much more experience than I've got.  I've asked him for advice on how to do it, or if he's had any success with rebar; but no response yet.  Thanks Anyway !  Ed VA  "It's only impossible if you prove that it's impossible to yourself."
Reply:Depending on the thickness of the rebar, it can be "cold" bent/formed.  Simply clamp in a vice and bang the devil out of it with a BFH. There is a Carbon Arc machine on eBay right now, but only puts out 7.5 amps.  Also on ebay are a couple of ads for boxes of carbon arc electrodes.  You could put a posting within ebay in the "Want It Now" area and perhaps get a hit from someone who has one for sale.  Also, may want to try Craigs list.Good Luck.
Reply:An Update:  I just looked again in ebay, only this time I typed in "Carbon Arc" under ALL CATEGORIES, not just within Business and Industrial.   There is a Forney carbon arc set up listed.  It is ebay Item # 270304180591.    Bidding is up to $20 at present.Good Luck.Last edited by paweldor; 11-19-2008 at 04:48 PM.Reason: added item #
Reply:you'll want a #12 lens and make sure there's no bare skin showing if you use a carbon arc torch. the last time i used mine (30 years ago) i got some horrible sun--burn.
Reply:Thanks Guys !  PaWelder...  The rebar I want to form is 1.0"; so even my BFH won't do it; and I've been to Ebay.  The Carbon Arc Torch they have doesn't have any rods with it.  Boatbuoy...  Thanks for the info; but I've already had some experience with "Arc Burn".  Now, I use my hood for everything.  Goggles just won't do it anymore except for very, VERY shorttime projects.Ed VA
Reply:Originally Posted by edv7028...Does anyone have any proven, or even just possible ideas for bending/forming rebar with an Arc Welder ? ...
Reply:Ahh... Denrep, you've come through for us again.  Thanks for your efforts to show us new guys how to get some things done.  I'm working on getting some Carbon Electrodes; so I'm halfway there !  What kind of welder were you using; and do you think it was stressing the welder in anyway ?  I'll have my Lincoln 225/125 AC/DC to use for this project.  Ed VA
Reply:I don't care what you guys say about denrep, he's ok in my book!!.
Reply:Originally Posted by edv7028Thanks Guys !  PaWelder...  The rebar I want to form is 1.0"; so even my BFH won't do it; and I've been to Ebay.  The Carbon Arc Torch they have doesn't have any rods with it.  Boatbuoy...  Thanks for the info; but I've already had some experience with "Arc Burn".  Now, I use my hood for everything.  Goggles just won't do it anymore except for very, VERY shorttime projects.Ed VA
Reply:Denrep Consulting LLC, parent corp. of Denrep Productions, does it again"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:We all know Alfred taught him that trick.  He's the brains behind that operation.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Originally Posted by edv7028...What kind of welder were you using; and do you think it was stressing the welder in anyway ?  I'll have my Lincoln 225/125 AC/DC to use for this project...
Reply:Ed's makin' people stretch, and that's a good thing.  Solutions:  The cream rises to the top, don't need to say more."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Originally Posted by duaneb55We all know Alfred taught him that trick.  He's the brains behind that operation.
Reply:There is a box of 100pcs of 5/16" carbon arc electrodes on ebay at present.  Item # 200276729710.  Has starting bid of $25.  No bids yet, with under 2 days left on the auction.Hope this helps.
Reply:Hi Again Guys !  FarmerSamm... Here's a link that says they carry Aerisweld.  They haven't responded to my request for pricing and availability; but they're advertising it....http://libertyalloys.com/copperelec.htm  DenRep... I found all sizes of Carbon Electrodes at a place called "Airgas.com"  I've already received my order; and they were cheaper in the long run than the lot advertised on Ebay.  Those on Ebay were quoted as being "Used", and possibly old/wet.  I didn't want to take a chance; and what I ordered will still last me months.  I hope this helps you guys if you want some.  Regards,   Ed VA  "It's only impossible once you prove to yourself that it's impossible."
Reply:Great info, I've only seen where the carbon has been used for really big chunks of metal, didn't know a guy could get some to use for smaller applications.Miller 140 w A/SHF Flux Core WelderDewalt Chop SawSmith O/A TorchHarley Electra Glide Classic
Reply:Hi Again Folks...  Denrep... what shade lens were you using ?    Can anyone tell me if "Stacked" lenses are cumulative in their shading capability ?  Say I have a #5 Lens in my hood; and then I add a #10 lens on top of it, will it now be something like a #15 shade ???  I'm more or less curious thanks to Tresi  and Boatbuoy's concerns on the lens I use for this project.  TankSarge... if you ever get around to messing with this type of project, let me know what size metal you manage to bend.Thanks Again !Ed VA
Reply:Originally Posted by edv7028 Denrep... what shade lens were you using ?...
Reply:Thanks again Denrep !  I'll see what I can do about pix; but my grandaughter lost my camera, so it might be awhile.    The "Airgas.com" website had the Carbon Electrodes I bought listed as "Gouging Rods"; so I'll have to mess around with them some to "Feel" my way around how to get the results I want.  Your help has built up my confidence, and cleared the way.    Thanks Again !  Ed VA
Reply:Some info on Carbon Arc Electrode use in an Arc Welder from "tpub.com/steelworker1".  Hopefully, some of us will find it helpful.Ed VA  CARBON-ARC CUTTINGMetals can be cut cleanly with a carbon electrode are because no foreign metals are introduced at the are. The cutting current should be 25 to 50 amps above the welding current for the same thickness of metal.The carbon electrode point should be ground so that it is very sharp. During the actual cutting, move the carbon electrode in a vertical elliptical movement to undercut the metal; this aids in the removal of the molten metal. As in oxygen cutting, a crescent motion is pre*ferred. Figure 7-52 shows the relative positions of the electrode and the work in the cutting of cast iron.Figure 7-52.-Carbon-arc cutting on cast iron.The carbon-arc method of cutting is successful on cast iron because the arc temperature is high enough to melt the oxides formed. It is especially important to undercut the cast-iron kerf to produce an even cut. Position the electrode so the molten metal flows away from the gouge or cutting areas. Table 7-4 is a list of cutting speeds, plate thicknesses, and current settings for carbon-arc cutting.Because of the high currents required, the graphite form of carbon electrode is better. To reduce the heating effect on the electrode, you should not let it extend more than 6 inches beyond the holder when cutting. If the carbon burns away too fast, shorten the length that it extends out of the electrode holder to as little as 3 inches. Operating a carbon electrode at extremely high tempera*tures causes its surface to oxidize and burn away, result*ing in a rapid reduction in the electrode diameter.Carbon-arc cutting does not require special gener*ators. Standard arc-welding generators and other items of arc-welding station equipment are suitable for use. Straight polarity direct current (DCSP) is always used.Because of the high temperature and the intensity of the arc, choose a shade of helmet lens that is darker than the normal shade you would use for welding on the same thickness of metal. A number 12 or 14 lens shade is recommended for carbon-arc welding or cutting.
Reply:Interesting... We'll have to try it one of these days. I did spot some factory arc-brazing on a production built machine; I'll post the pics up in the arc-brazing thread.Good Luck
Reply:Hi Folks...  I finally managed to try some of those Carbon Electrodes I bought from AirGas.Com.  Just experimenting; and don't know what I'm doing, but I am learning try by try.  It might be the wrong way/long way; but it works.    I have manged to cut/bend rebar with the 1/4" Carbon Electrode at 95, 105, and 125 AMPS; but haven't got the right touch to keep it from melting.   After seeing the 3/8" rebar melt, I tried just melting rebar together, and got a nice solid joint; but don't know how brittle it might be after all that heating.  I also managed to braze 3/8" rebar together using just the Carbon Electrode and some 12 AWG house wiring.  Works fine; but it's touchy to keep it from "gasifying".  I then tried the Carbon Electrode on my Railroad Baseplate Workbench.  It will even melt that, and the thin end of the plate is still over 1/2" of Work Hardened Cast Steel !  I could also braze that 12 AWG Copper Wire to it as well with a nice good looking bond.    I tried to see if I could braze some copper wire onto an old broken Cast Iron Pot I had; but no real luck there, no matter how clean I brushed them both.  At Low Current like 95 AMPS, I could burn halfway into the Cast Iron, which was only 1/8" thick to begin with, and try to fill it in; but the copper wire would just fizzle out.  I guess the Cast Iron was too hot for what I tried.  I'm working on getting some 1/8" Carbon Rods to try again later at lower current.  Just about any higher current settings I tried would burn through the Cast Iron, or cause lots of Popping and Spitting which was possibly the Cast Iron expanding too quickly.  I want to try and braze with some brass rods; but I hesitate at using the because I bought them to decorate my old Hand Made Apple Crate Cigar Humidor.  After all this "Work", which took about 5 hours, I still had only burnt off maybe 1 to 3 inches off the new 1/4" Carbon.  I decided to see what else I could do with it, and cut-up some steel cans.  It goes through them like a hot knife through butter; so now I might not have to squash my cans with my T-Post Driver in order to save space.  (I burn my trash out here to save that $200.00 annual fee).    Bed Spring Wire... will melt easily with the Carbon Electrodes; but I still have no idea as to what kind of metal it might be.  I was hoping some kind of Copper Alloy; but it looks like steel/iron.  I think it's magnetic too.  Anyway, it will do a pretty good fill on rebar if you have a need.  It's now the day after Thanksgiving, and it's foggy, so I might not get to experiment any; but I have my Thanksgiving gift from my neighbor.  It's a nice big bottle of Cutty Sark; and it's still almost full !  Got lots of Romeo & Julietta Vintage Cigars, along with some Padrons and Aliados.  I won't get bored !  I hope you all enjoyed your hoiday as well.  Regards,   Ed VA  "Another Good Day on the Shady Side of Hell."Last edited by edv7028; 11-28-2008 at 10:06 AM.Reason: More InfoOriginally Posted by edv7028 ...I have manged to cut/bend rebar with the 1/4" Carbon Electrode at 95, 105, and 125 AMPS; but haven't got the right touch to keep it from melting....
Reply:i hope you didn't think i meant goggles when i said to use a #12 lens. i don't think they even make goggles that dark. by open skin,i  was refering to arms and neck "v" . the carbon arc is plain nasty .
Reply:Hi Denrep and Boatbuoy...  On the goggle lenses, I swapped out the lens that came with it for an old #10 I had laying around.  It's easier to use for a quick and dirty project; but you have to remember to get the old hood out if the project gets to be longer than planned.  I got some pretty good facial suntan when I forgot the first time.  My hands and arms seem to handle the rays well.  I use gloves most of the time because sometimes I seem to forget that I'm messing with "Hot Stuff".  I learn quickly though !    Denrep... I tried both negative and positive, long and short arcs; but to maintain a long arc, I had to keep the current turned up which seemed to get everything hotter than I needed.  As I said, I haven't got that "Touch" down pat yet.  I'm still working on it though.    Thanks for all your help !  Ed VA
Reply:You're welcome.Thank you for bringing the arc-brazing/heating enlightenment.Sometime soon, I have to push a stubborn pin out. I plan on welding on a push-block, and then warming things up; but instead of heating with a torch, I think I'm going to try your carbon-arc heating system.Good Luck