Calcium Chloride

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Hi names Beavertrapper24 and here is my problem.  I'm the in house welder at work and today the boss asked me to weld a leak shut on a tractor rim the tire is full of calcium chloride. he would not let me drain the chloride because that would be a waste of time, and i could not get the mig welder for the same reason.  I did the best I could with the old buzz box stick welder and so fare it ain't leaking we're going to check it in the morning again.  Ok now my question is there a better way to weld tires with calcium chloride?  because I want to do this the right way so it don't come back to the shop any help would be great.Beavertrapper24
Reply:If the idiots didn't fill the tire past the reccomended level, it should be possible to to weld it if you turn the tire so that the weld point is on the top.  There should be an air gap above the level of the liquid so that you're not trying to weld with water behind the steel.I hate calcium.  It ruins rims, and it's hard as Hell to get rid of in an approved way.  In the long run wheel weights are better.  Always a nice thing to have a flat in the field, and put salt into your groundTHIS IS A TUBELESS TIRE ISN'T IT???"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:If it's a tube, I don't know how you'd weld it, and how it hasn't totally destroyed the rim if it is tubeless."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:I've never seen calcium in a tubeless tire, but maybe I haven't seen it all."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Yeah Samm,Radials have CaCl  in them too.A hole in the rim repair like that might actually be better taken care of by brazing.  It keeps the heat down.  It also "fills" the hole better.  A hot arc weld can cause cracking else where or warping of the rim.  It can be done but it is better done tire off rim.The best "solution" to the problem that we use over/down here is Antifreeze.  4 or 5 gallons per tire will be enough to keep from freezing solid.CaCl is used mainly because of its weight charachteristics.  It is heavy and adds more weight than water.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:Is the leak due to corrosion? I think the salt might be less a problem than the water it's dissolved in, but if the area has lots of corrosion on the back side, that might be worse. More details might be useful.'Samm, have you ever thought of using Calcium Nitrate? It might not be as good an antifreeze, or weigh as much (or be quite as cheap) but it surely is a better fertilizer if you have to dump it.
Reply:I would suggest to the "boss" that you take the tire/wheel off, take to someone with the capabilities to drain the stuff, add a tube and refill with the calcium.  If it's got a hole through the steel wheel right now, ain't gonna be long before there's more.  You're just looking at more repairs down the road.  A tube may prolong the use of the wheel.Good Luck.
Reply:I've seen guys use antifreeze instead of calcium.  Calcium doesn't freeze, and it's heavier in concentrate.  Antifreeze is more expensive, and it doesn't ruin the rim when it leaks, but it's lighter per gallon in mix.But after I started plinkin' away on the question, brain fart, as usual.  How in the Hell can ya run calcium against a bare rim(no tube).  I've never seen it.  Weird."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Originally Posted by paweldorI would suggest to the "boss" that you take the tire/wheel off, take to someone with the capabilities to drain the stuff, add a tube and refill with the calcium.  If it's got a hole through the steel wheel right now, ain't gonna be long before there's more.  You're just looking at more repairs down the road.  A tube may prolong the use of the wheel.Good Luck.
Reply:Well they do.  Its nasty.  Some use epoxy paint on the rim.  Some try to help by having a rim liner which only glues it to the rim and makes a mess.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:How in the Hell can ya run calcium against a bare rim(no tube). I've never seen it
Reply:I think Chopperchick is messin' with us.SHOW ME THE PICS!!!!!I've had a azz whuppin' before, and I know when to give up if I'm full of crapLast edited by farmersamm; 12-18-2008 at 08:52 PM.Reason: full of crap"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:All the weighted tires I have ever seen had heavy grade tubes put inbefore they added the calcium cloride.My Ford/New Holland 345D had tubeless tires and before they put in the stuff they always put in heavy tubes to help resist rust.Co-Own CNC shop:Miller :1251 plasma cutter, MaxStar 700 TIG/Stick, & XMT 456 Multiprocess Welder.&  2 Hypertherm HPR260's Plasma CutterSorry I had a bad stroke but now I am back.
Reply:They aren't supposed to tube radials on tractors.   Epoxy generally works for some time.  Again Antifreeze is not a totally bad option for radialsEsab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:Originally Posted by specterAll the weighted tires I have ever seen had heavy grade tubes put inbefore they added the calcium cloride.My Ford/New Holland 345D had tubeless tires and before they put in the stuff they always put in heavy tubes to help resist rust.
Reply:The Firestone's on my tractor are not radials They are 16 ply nylon bias ply tires. To weld on these they would have to remove the calcium cloride and tube.Co-Own CNC shop:Miller :1251 plasma cutter, MaxStar 700 TIG/Stick, & XMT 456 Multiprocess Welder.&  2 Hypertherm HPR260's Plasma CutterSorry I had a bad stroke but now I am back.
Reply:True.  There's a difference.  They use radials on real tractors.lol jk  Only difference between a tube type tire and a non radial tubeless: the tube.  Radials on the other hand are steel belted and "squat" under pressure leaving a bigger footprint and giving more traction with less compaction.  Also a little more puncture resistant.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:Originally Posted by lugweldThey aren't supposed to tube radials on tractors.   Epoxy generally works for some time.  Again Antifreeze is not a totally bad option for radials
Reply:No Wonder I Ain't Gotta Babe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Uhh, SammRead the warning. Again.  15.5 38's?  what you running a Belarus?  That is hard one to find.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:15.5x38 is a pretty standard tire for rowcrop tractors in my horsepower range."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:It was.  Now a lot are 34's.  or 16.4 38's.  Not alot comes along in my rowcropping area with this size anymore.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:there is not a lot of corrosion the tire and rim are about a year and a half old. we have the equipment to remove and install (if thats the right word) the calcium and about 2,000 lb of it in bags down in the warehouse but the boss wants it down with out removing the calcium im half temped to just take the tire off the rim when he an't looking and fix it the right way. and yes Sam the tire if filled to the recommended level we fill there here at the shop and we never fill completely full.
Reply:15.5R signifies a radial tube"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:I think you might enjoy what I found when I just googled 15.5 38 http://www.rosava.ua/en/catalogue/ag...tires/?pid=131Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXTOriginally Posted by beavertrapper24there is not a lot of corrosion the tire and rim are about a year and a half old. we have the equipment to remove and install (if thats the right word) the calcium and about 2,000 lb of it in bags down in the warehouse but the boss wants it down with out removing the calcium im half temped to just take the tire off the rim when he an't looking and fix it the right way. and yes Sam the tire if filled to the recommended level we fill there here at the shop and we never fill completely full.
Reply:it ok so it sounds like the best way to to weld it overhead or braze it
Reply:I would think that if there's a leak, the metal is probably getting wormy around the pinhole.  If you have to, maybe build the weld out pretty far beyond the pinhole so as to cover your butt.I tried to weld a piece of tubing that had water behind it once.  I didn't realize there was still water in it.  It was a faulty weld I spotted on one of my crazy peices of equipment that I build, and I wanted to make sure the seam was sealed.The little bit of water still behind the weld made for some real interesting results.  Looked like bubblegum bigtime.  I tried to heat it with a rosebud, but all it did was create steam, and didn't fully dry it out.  Finally I used paper towels to wick up the water, and it worked.  (just kept the paper towel next to the hole until it soaked up all of the water)That's the only experience I have.  It's all I have to go on.The problem in your case is that Calcium just loves water, and soaks it up.  I hope you can get the area dry enough to weld.  What the Hell, it was f'd when it came in the shop, gotta try something."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:i Wanna Be The Mittens!!!!!!"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersamm What the Hell, it was f'd when it came in the shop, gotta try something.
Reply:If you have to go overhead, try 6011 at low amps.  It's a fast freeze rod.  Move fast when you run the weld if the rim's pretty thin."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Yeah,The ruskies always have interesting advertising.  Growing up,  my dad sold those aforementioned Belarus tractors.  We occasionally got a  Soviet trading magazine advertising products that were sold through the trading conglomerate TRACTOROEXPORT.They sold everything from tractors to microwave magnetrons.  One issue had an ad for a soviet built electric mens razor.  Holding the item was a woman in fishnets.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:There's a product called XO Rust.  Brush it on, stops rust in it's tracks, seals the rusted area from the air to prevent further rusting.  Something like the stuff in fuel tank repair kits.
Reply:I used to fix tractor tires before I went to nursing school.  We had a couple farmers with tubeless radials filled with fluid.  One of them even had the duals with fluid in them.  I hated fixing his tires!!!!!Anyway, tubeless rims are the same rims as the tube type with the exception of an epoxy coating on the inside.  Have to be careful so the bead breaker doesn't chip the epoxy coating.  The rims would usually last about 2 years before they had to be replaced at about $450 each.  The last time I did one, I did all 4 rims (duals - no fluid in the duals) because they all cracked.  The farmer had the previous rims welded & they lasted about 4 months, before they rusted through.This guy was running a 24 foot rototiller & planter off his three point.  He was definately overloading those 20.8x42 10 ply radials.  Had to have the engine turned up to power everything off the pto.  His tractor was putting out close to 210 hp & 2WD.Welding a tractor rim is not a good idea if any calcium chloride is around. No matter what you do, the normal flexing of the rim will cause micro-cracks & the salt will find it.  If you do decide to fix it, braze is the best.  You can get it on a wider area & it is softer than a steel bead - which will allow for the flex.  But, this rim will need to be replaced in the near future - 6 months to a year.If there is a tube in that tire, it has to come off.  But that braze will have to be polished smooth or it will tear the tube.  Fastest, longest lasting repair would be replace the rim.  There isn't much that will stop calcium chloride from eating metal.  XO Rust works well when the area isn't saturated all the time, but inside a rim.......it's a loosing battle.Last edited by MarkBall2; 12-19-2008 at 11:19 PM.MarkI haven't always been a nurse........Craftsman 12"x36" LatheEnco G-30B MillHobart Handler 175Lincoln WeldandPower 225 AC/DC G-7 CV/CCAdd a Foot Pedal to a Harbor Freight Chicago Electric 165A DC TIG PapaLion's Gate Build
Reply:Isn't that exactly what I said?  Nobody listens to me.Been in tractors since I was old enough to climb on them. Sold them growing up.Worked for a "blue" dealership in the shop and parts manager in college.  Farmed with them and then was a dealer rep for a tractor company and then farmed with them some more.  But no one  believes me. Story of my life.  (I have a great inferiority comlex tonight.  The world is conspiring against me.  Everything that can go wrong has.  But tomorrow is another day.  Oops it is tomorroww. There all better now. )Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:In a round about way.  I was just putting the advise in one spot.Here, have a beer on me:  or  MarkI haven't always been a nurse........Craftsman 12"x36" LatheEnco G-30B MillHobart Handler 175Lincoln WeldandPower 225 AC/DC G-7 CV/CCAdd a Foot Pedal to a Harbor Freight Chicago Electric 165A DC TIG PapaLion's Gate Build