stainless sink welding help

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I need to weld a crack that runs along a 90 degree edge at the top of a commercial restaurant kitchen sink.  The top side is obviously visable and the underside is only if you are trying to look under the front edge.  I understand backpurging on something like a set of headers because it's relatively easy to contain the sheilding gas in the tube. Looking for advice on the best (correct) way to do this job. I would rather both sides look great and probably required for state health inspection.Thanks!
Reply:I have done them with out shielding gas.  Keep it cool, make it look nice on top.  It only takes a few amps.  Any idear what kind of stainless?I polish my welds with a flap disk and wire wheel.  I had a tough time collecting  $ from kitchens.Flame awayDavid Last edited by David R; 08-18-2008 at 08:15 PM.Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Last one I did I used a 309 stick rod, ran it cold and quick. Gave it a flap disc, and then 3m pad with soapy water for the shine.Disclaimer; "I am just an a$$hole welder, don't take it personally ."
Reply:Originally Posted by David RI have done them with out shielding gas.  Keep it cool, make it look nice on top.  It only takes a few amps.  Any idear what kind of stainless?I polish my welds with a flap disk and wire wheel.  I had a tough time collecting  $ from kitchens.Flame awayDavid
Reply:Thanks for the info!  Not sure what grade it is, is there an easy way to tell?  Did they just take forever (30-60-90days?) to pay....or they tried to just screw you out of getting paid all together?
Reply:I welded one up with my mig.  I didn't and a large spool so I stuck a small one in my spool gun.. Got a little heavy but worked good.  Like said before, I also stuck a copper spoon on the back side.
Reply:Originally Posted by silverbulletcoupeThanks for the info!  Not sure what grade it is, is there an easy way to tell?  Did they just take forever (30-60-90days?) to pay....or they tried to just screw you out of getting paid all together?
Reply:Would solar flux work for the backside on a sink repair, or would it be considered a because of possible chemicals in the sink? If you cleaned it up well, I would assume it would be feasible, or am I on glue??And then, after so much work...... you have it in your hand, and you look over to your side...... and the runner has run off. Leaving you holding the prize, wondering when the runner will return.
Reply:I recently welded a sink similar to what you described.  They had let it go for so long I had to place a bottle jack underneath.  I used a Passport 0.030 308 wire and it worked well.  I used to drag a TIG module inside, but found the Passport to be more cost effective.  I welded on both sides except for the back.  Soft wire brush on a hand drill and it looked great.  I've repaired stainless for TGI Friday's in the Florida panhandle area for about five years.  Payment method has always been easy for me.  If I have a meal there, they expect me to pay when I'm finished.  I expect them to pay when the work is complete; and they always have.
Reply:Sinks are normally constructed from ferritic SS like 410S. They are harder and maintain good shine due to low Ni content. Industrial sinks may be 316L though.For this job, (and assuming 410S), any 300 series filler will do, (309L best), if any - autogenous weld methods may work. Use copper to chill the back side of the weld zone to prevent oxidisation and keep heat inputs very low.Good luck
Reply:Originally Posted by chrispc66Sinks are normally constructed from ferritic SS like 410S. They are harder and maintain good shine due to low Ni content. Industrial sinks may be 316L though.For this job, (and assuming 410S), any 300 series filler will do, (309L best), if any - autogenous weld methods may work. Use copper to chill the back side of the weld zone to prevent oxidisation and keep heat inputs very low.Good luck
Reply:As I recall, there are some 400 series, ferritic stainless steel grades that have very good deep drawing properties, so I would not be supprised to see sinks, and commercial cookware made from it.  Of course this would be magnetic and easy to test.For sure 410 is not a ferritic alloy, it is a martensitic grade with very high hardenability, used for knives and surgical instruments.A quick search brought up a couple sites that list 304 for commercial sinks.http://www.stainlesssteelstore.com/pltsinkthree.htmlhttp://www.instawares.com/hand-sink-...6-0001.0.7.htm
Reply:Can you get at the back side? What I would do is weld the back side first ALMOST 100% pen and not worry too much about the black stuff that may appear at the odd spot where you get sugaring.Then I would hit the back side of the weld (inside side of the sink now) with a flap disc and get rid of any sugaring or "nasty bits" (technical term!). Then I would do a low amps pass on that side to finish off, then blend it. You won't need to weld right through on this side, so you'll have perfect weld on both sides and no purge issues and you shouldn'ty have any porositry or anything becuase you ground the backside of the first weld. . Did that make sense?
Reply:Originally Posted by CapnbondoCan you get at the back side? What I would do is weld the back side first ALMOST 100% pen and not worry too much about the black stuff that may appear at the odd spot where you get sugaring.Then I would hit the back side of the weld (inside side of the sink now) with a flap disc and get rid of any sugaring or "nasty bits" (technical term!). Then I would do a low amps pass on that side to finish off, then blend it. You won't need to weld right through on this side, so you'll have perfect weld on both sides and no purge issues and you shouldn'ty have any porositry or anything becuase you ground the backside of the first weld. . Did that make sense?
Reply:You should be able to weld the thing in one pass.  If done hot enough, both sides will be welded.  An outside corner with proper fitup only needs little dabs of filler. If its hot enough, you will be able to see the bead from the inside.  You have to move right along.  It will sugar on the inside.  The last one I did was a dish washer sump.  The back split from the bottom.  I just drained it and made sure the inside was dry.  Laying on the floor behind the machine overhead.  Using my knee on the foot pedal.  A hand control would have been nice.  Arcmaster 185.  I was using max of 35 amps.  Plan on some time for polishing the weld. Take pictures....David Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Originally Posted by pulserAs I recall, there are some 400 series, ferritic stainless steel grades that have very good deep drawing properties, so I would not be supprised to see sinks, and commercial cookware made from it.  Of course this would be magnetic and easy to test.For sure 410 is not a ferritic alloy, it is a martensitic grade with very high hardenability, used for knives and surgical instruments.A quick search brought up a couple sites that list 304 for commercial sinks.http://www.stainlesssteelstore.com/pltsinkthree.htmlhttp://www.instawares.com/hand-sink-...6-0001.0.7.htm
Reply:Ok so now a voice of experience from a guy who spent 3+ years building stainless kitchen equipment.As far as i ever saw the only material we ever used was 304 SS.Our sink designs were drawn on CAD, cut on a lazer cutter, and formed on press brakes.For this application the best bet would be to get some stock pieces of 1/2"x4"x however long said weld is in Aluminum for backer plates.Use Vice grips and clamp one "cold bar" as there often called to the inside of the weld joint, and one outside about 1/4" down from the weld.Tack the split about every 1/4" or so to help keep it together.I dont recommend rod for this as long as theres sufficient material to fuse together.I hear some on here saying to go slow and cold and this is exactly opposite of how we did our welds.I tack up like suggested above turn machine up to 125-150 amps and with the torch angled run the weld pass quite rapidly.I can fuse a section of sink tub in 18" long in about a minute.This is pretty much how we did all sinks that ever left the shop as long as fitup was good and you had enough "cold bar" on it to absorb the heat it left a very flat, and easily polished weld.If i have time, and access to my things later ill try to get some pics of how we did this.On this Job i wouldnt reccomend the hot and fast method i describe, but with enough cold bar and a good tack job you should be able to fuse the piece together very nicely Any other kitchen related questions ask!Oh and by the way Rojodiablo we used Solar flux all the time at the place we worked at and never had any problems with NSF  They usually just covered it with silver spray paint.Hope this helps!
Reply:Sheetmetal guyI know this is an old post But I have to Tig weld up a 14Gauge SS 304 sink for a customer in the next few weeksThey had another shop weld the last two and I spent a good 4 days repairing them They asked if I would do the next oneMy plan is to use cold bars as you stated, weld from the outside, purge the inside with argon or nitrogen, is this how you have done it?the other shop welded the inside and left th outside untouched, I had to repair leaks and the top seams for cracks and warping.any pointers you may have would be apreciatedThanksRoss
Reply:it's funny I read this post last sink I did on the way there I drove buy I guy the owed me $150 from a job  i did a year ago tried to chase him down but got away... I did the job with my miller 135 I think had no problems but i have had them in the pass next time I'll try 309