Best process for race car fabrication

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Hello,I am an active home welder. I have been doing many car related fabrication projects for about 5 years now. I own a nice HTP tig machine that lets me weld all different materials. I would say I am an average home welder. I also own an older 110v Century Mig welder that is really sub standard in power, and quality. Especially now that I have been running the TIG for a couple years.I usually weld on the bench. But sometimes I have to weld on the car. Upside down, laying on my back, very tight positions for suspension points. There are alot of challenges TIG welding around the car. I am about to start doing a cage and rear chassis fabrication project and will be welding away from the bench alot. Im wondering if I should step up to a nicer 220v Mig machine so that I can more easily make some of these tough welds. What do the experienced guys use around race car shops. Would a stick electrode in my TIG power supply help with some tight access welds?  I always think my TIG welding is pretty good until I try to weld around the car. Then suddenly I can't reach the weld seem, torch doesn't fit, can't see, and my welds come out like Terds.
Reply:NASCAR guys MIG their cages, it's faster and they go through a lot of cages.  If you already have a decent TIG and you're not mass producing cages I would just start with that.  When designing cages, they have to meet the rules of the sanctioning body for the race, but you also need to take in to consideration the space required for welding.  Try reworking your cage a little bit so it's easier to weld.
Reply:Mig would be my choice with a flexible gooseneck.   It will allow you to get in those crazy out of position welds.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:I always consult rule books before building things from scratch. But besides the design aspects of safety equipment, there are alot of really crazy out of place welding jobs around race cars.For instance, yesterday I was welding some tabs onto a tube chassis car to mount oil coolers. The weld required me to put the torch into a space about 2 inches deep between the transmission and the cross tube where the tab was going to be welded. I put the shorty back cap on my tig torch, and could barely get the tungsten to the joint. And then the electrode was poking out so far that the weld wasn't very clean. This was a chromoly chassis with chromoly tab being welded on. Also, there was no way to actually see parts of the weld joint. Especially when I had to reach the foot pedal while laying over the car to reach the joint.   I'm sure many of you guys know what I"m talking about here. The flexible tip mig gun sounds interesting. I may have look into that.
Reply:Originally Posted by tiggykenI always consult rule books before building things from scratch. But besides the design aspects of safety equipment, there are alot of really crazy out of place welding jobs around race cars.For instance, yesterday I was welding some tabs onto a tube chassis car to mount oil coolers. The weld required me to put the torch into a space about 2 inches deep between the transmission and the cross tube where the tab was going to be welded. I put the shorty back cap on my tig torch, and could barely get the tungsten to the joint. And then the electrode was poking out so far that the weld wasn't very clean. This was a chromoly chassis with chromoly tab being welded on. Also, there was no way to actually see parts of the weld joint. Especially when I had to reach the foot pedal while laying over the car to reach the joint.   I'm sure many of you guys know what I"m talking about here. The flexible tip mig gun sounds interesting. I may have look into that.
Reply:Of course there are exceptions to everything but usually a mild steel chassis is MIG welded and a chrome moly chassis i TIG welded. As others have said consult the sanctioning body.Tough as nails and damn near as smart
Reply:Here's a link to answer some of your questions.http://www.aws.org/w/a/wj/2003/04/103/index.htmlAt NHRA (drag racing) events all welding repairs on "pro" level cars have to be made by a certified weldor (certified by NHRA).  Paul LaSage of "Team Torch" traveled to all the national events and provided on site repairs.  I met him a few years ago at Maple Grove Speedway here in PA.  Nice guy.  Had a real nice truck too.
Reply:Not to sound too harsh on you, but.................If you need to ask the best way to build a cage, or the best process to build a cage with.............You are NOT ready to build something that someones life may have to depend on. If you had the necessary skills and experience in welding and fabrication, you would know and would not have to ask.I have been around the short tracks all of my life and have seen many an injury and a few too many deaths involved with motorsports and I don't take safety issues with race cars lightly.My advice to you, based on your self description of your out of position welds is that you leave the project up to someone more qualified, more skilled, and better equipped to handle the project. Yours and others lives may be at risk, is it worth taking the chance?I am what I am, Deal with it!If necessity is the Mother of Invention, I must be the Father of Desperation!
Reply:I wasn't going to touch this thread.... BUT it seems like at least every other week there is someone on here asking about how to do something with Motorsports and we have to talk them out of killing somebody.First you have a GTAW welder....Then you want to use a 110V GMAW wire feeder....Then you want to shove a SMAW electrode into a GTAW torch.....And your out of position welds look like Turds.Doesn't sound real safe by your own admission.I'm with Dave here.Later,Jason
Reply:I too was going to walk on by ....but as the President of a motorsports sanctioning body... a CWI... and 29 years hands on welding I will second the notion that if one needs to ask such a question one needs more life's experience. Yes the go to process would be GMAW. My race shop has setups for GTAW (X3) GMAW (X4) SMAW (X6) Oxy/fuel (X2) And to go with all those machines and processes I have a dozen or more AWS welding procedures, with as many Welder Qualification Records. Just so you know no one is telling you (at least me) not to fabricate a race car. Just know what you are doing. To that end this, or any forum on the WWW is not the place to gain that knowledge.
Reply:Check out the Lincoln Electric site, they offer courses geared specifically at motorsport welding . Take chasis and cage fabrication serious and learn and do it the right way from those who know. Good Luck and have fun with it."Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum"Lincoln Idealarc 250 AC/DCMillermatic 251   Syncrowave 300   30A spoolgunLincoln MP210Hypertherm 45(2) LN 25(2) Lincoln Weldanpower 225 CV(4) SA200   1 short hood    SA250    SAM 400
Reply:Aggreed, The OP did not mention the material they were going to build the chassis parts out of. The material and conditions should dictate the welding process used.....not the percieved ease of use. And by process I mean the entire process, not just melting the metal. And if the guy is whining about welding under a car....Ive got news for him about welding up a tubular chassis. Using a Mig chicken-poop spreader to make up for not being able to Tig out of position is an accident waiting to happen. I OA and Tig weld structures of tubing all the time....standing on ones head is just part of the deal. Heck if a bunch of converted housewives could do in durring WW2 after 80 hours of training, what does that say about the guy who cant do it now as a hobby?-Aaron
Reply:Well at least your not cutting up wood 2x4s for a cage.You gotta start somewhere.My thoughts are this,  if your pretty confident in your GTAW why not just use it and get some out of position practice.But if your stepping up to a bigger 220 Mig, then I probably wouldnt start with a cage first.I can see the points made by some of the others.  With my 4x club over the years most guys that make thier own vehicles have been around the shop/torch for a long time and every now and in the woods and at events we will see some shoddy stuff that I woulnt let my ex-wife in.Get some good info and gor it.  Keep us posted with pics. weld it like you own it