HF arc stabelizers

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I was thinking about getting a HF AS for my older AC/DC Miller, instead of trying to find a good AC/DC tig....anybody have a arc stab. ? and how do they like it. what are the draw backs over a convention tig set up......certainly cheaper and i like my big old dial-a-arc....
Reply:I had one before I switched to a proper TIG rig.Your results will depend on what you expect to do with TIG.I find that TIG just isn't any fun without a pedal control, and aluminum is extremely difficult, but good results can be had in steel.BTW, when I was using the stabilizer with my buzz box, I tried it with stick, and boy was that cool.
Reply:a big reason for the tig is doing aluminum, and i haven't heard much about stabelizers
Reply:I had (and still have because I never seem to be able to dispose of anything) an add-on Sears (I think)  HF unit that I used with an antique Sears buzz box about 40 years ago.  It worked, but not very well.  I assume that most of the difficulty would have been a combination of the buzz box characteristics (never could get a good bead with it, even on steel) and my lack of experience.  I did, however, manage to fabricate some functional (but ugly) aluminum boxes for burial of instrumentation for underground vibration measurements.My inexpert and subjective but strong feeling is that you are better off getting a proper TIG machine in which the HF is better integrated into the machine functions, like arc balance and HF phase controls and simply better arc characteristics than you get out of an average buzz box..awright
Reply:I used one of the HF add on boxes with the Miller AC/DC Thunderbolt and after a lot of practice I had very good results with it on thin aluminum (less than 1/4").  Since then I have had the chance to play with a pulsed built in HF AC machine and there is a BIG difference.  BUT, if the question is just can it do it, yes, it can.Jamie WebbWelder & InspectorBusiness and HobbyLincoln Pro-Mig 180 with Spool Gun and Lincoln AC225
Reply:I didn't mean to say that TIG with aluminum is more difficult than steel.It sure is very -different-, but what I meant to say, was that aluminum is more difficult without a pedal.  One of aluminum's problems, is that its oxide (if not completely removed), isn't easily visible under the arc, but doesn't melt until the aluminum underneath is liquified.  You can end up with a part that collapses like a bag of water.Even when its totally clean, the heat spreads so quickly, and it melts so easily, that the puddle is very hard to control.  Having a pedal lets someone with my lack of experience have a chance to back off when its getting away from me (and have more power for the start, which can draw off lots of heat).  Take away the pedal, and I can't touch aluminum.Steel is easy without a pedal, and very forgiving, but you will notice a difference on starts and stops.
Reply:Any thoughts about using one of these Arc Stabilizers connected to a Miller Bobcat AC/DC on AC for aluminum? I thought they were intended for a shop plug in AC buzzbox..... Seems I heard the HF it puts out can damage a welder/generator.I've got an Uncle that intends to use one connected to his Bobcat for an aluminum transmission housing. I'd just hate for him to attempt using it on his Bobcat only to have it damage his machine.I was going to use it on an old AC electric welder,but I don't think I'd hook it to a Bobcat..... He tried his $1000 miller spool gun attachment to weld the trans case,but all he got was cold non sticking globs with lots of black residue--- I didn't watch what he did,but it sounded like he didn't pre-heat it and he was outside--so I'm guessing there was a breeze blowing away his shielding gas.He's got a HH175 which he keeps telling me won't weld aluminum because it's not a high frequency unit....While I agree the trans case might be at the extreme upper reaches of the 175's ability.... It should work for this fix.Any thoughts about the numerous questions above? Thanks--Dave
Reply:I would contact Miller and ask them about how easily the Bobcat could be damaged.  It would be fine electronics that would be the most sensitive.  The HF units do create a fair bit of stray HF that can certainly interfere with electronics, and possibly damage very sensitive electronics.I have a Miller HF-15-2 WG unit which you hook up to AC line voltage and pass the welding current through, and it introduces high frequency high voltage into the welding line to assist in DC arc starting, and AC arc stabilization.  Welding steel without amperage control is not difficult.  Welding aluminum, as mentioned above, I can't imagine not having current control.  But I haven't done it extensively.  The HF can cause nearby computers to reset, and it causes our alarm system to sometimes go nuts, but its done no damage so far.  Proper grounding and shielding is essential to reduce stray RF, and also running the HF output at the lowest level needed to get the job done.
Reply:The HF unit won't damage the Bobcat.   Miller sells the HF251D1 with contactor, which is marketed to Bobcat users.    Now how well it will weld on a cast aluminum transmission housing is another story.  Your friend must have some very good cast aluminum tig welding skills to want to attempt it with that setup.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Thanks for the feedback.... After reading all the pages of "Warnings" in the manual I'm not sure the thing is even safe--LOL. It's my Uncle that's attempting to use this unit the LWS guys told him it would be fine to use to Tig the trans case..... He's used it before,but with his old buzzbox. He needs to just bring the Arc Stabilizer and the trans to my shop and attach it to my AC welder and avoid any question... (and leave it connected to my unit so I can play--LOL)I'm thinking he's nuts since he has the whole Miller spool gun unit that's made for his Bobcat....he's just having the problems I mentioned above making it work. I think he's just not dialing it in correctly. I know he's used it to build aluminum shrimp net boards and do repairs to his shrimp boat before,but it's been setting for at least 5 years un-used which might be the problem.I'm trying to convince him he needs to rectify the problem he's having with the spool gun,instead of attempting to hook up the arc stabilizer..... He's pretty good with stick,but a real knothead beyond that..... He has the ability,he just refuses to listen  to reason even though he's not sure. I guess I'm just more careful.... He's under the impression the LWS told him to do it so if it screws up his welder they'll be responsible....which I doubt!!!These are the same guys that charged him $186 for a box of 6011 rods when he said "charge it" and walked out of the shop with them... I got mine for $60 shipped to my door.I appreciate the input about the Stabilizer.....
Reply:I'd check to be sure the HF add-on that you have is as sophisticated as the one that DesertRider33 says Miller recommends for use with the Bobcat.The important factor is how well the HF is filtered at the input from the welder.  Filtering would probably consist of some kind of inductor between two high voltage capacitors to ground right at the welding lead input to the HF box.  The inductor (if used) might consist of a pair of ferrite half-shells clamped around the welding lead right after it enters the box or could be a large coil of heavy wire with a ferrite or steel core.  (This is all guesswork - I haven't actually seen the guts of these HF boxes since the one I used 40 years ago.)  The capacitors shunt the HF to ground and the inductor impedes the flow of HF energy up the welding cable.  If your HF box and the one recommended by Miller have what looks like the same filtering, yours should be OK.A good start would be to get a schematic for both boxes.awright
Reply:That's what had me concerned....his stabilizer is almost new in condition--BUT--It's probably 30-40 years old too and not as refined a unit as something modern.I'd just hate to see him fry his Miller by following advise from the guys at the LWS (I've met them)
Reply:I decided to contact Miller and just ask a few questions---  They said it shouldn't cause a problem with the Bobcat,just pull the leads out so they weren't coiled up and use short leads on the arc stabilizer to minimize any feedback to the machine.I mentioned the arc stabilizer and what it might do to the trucks' electronic components...He also thought that might pose more problems than to the Bobcat itself and suggested moving it away from the area where the welding was being done. I don't know if I'd take the chance,but I'll let you all know how it works out.... since he's dead set on doing this and I told him I want to watch the process. The truck problem was something that hit me in the wee hours of the morning when I thought about all the electronic stuff in newer vehicles.... I kept getting visions of the HF feeding back into the truck and the wipers whipping as the lights started flashing like a "Herbie" movie,but we'll see.Thanks for the input & I'll update this after the fact
Reply:I wouldn't worry about the truck unless you rested the HF unit on the hood during operation.  There is no connection between the welding leads and the truck electrical system so radiation through space from the welding leads (if filtering is inadequate) and from the whips would be the potential problem.The intensity of radiation from a point source decreases with the square of distance (visualize a given amount of energy spreading out over the surface of an expanding sphere), so distance is your friend.  Stretch the leads from your Bobcat out straight away from the truck, be sure your HF box has good filtering, connect your HF box to a ground rod or plate on deeply wet ground, and I think you will be fine.But remember, I am just an opinionated hobbyist.awright
Reply:That's pretty much the plan of action at this point. I have my serious doubts about this unit having any 'shielding'..... 30-40 years ago hooked to a 220V AC buzzbox in a shop with no computers,cell phones or other sensitive electronic devices around it would have been fine (although the manual is full of warnings) There are warnings about the HF getting into the wiring within 50-75 feet of the HF box.My Uncle got this HF unit from a welding shop......They probably upgraded and got rid of this unit as their business expanded and they got computers that were affected by the HF box.
Reply:Or maybe they just outgrew an add-on HF box and surplussed it out to get it out of underfoot.awright