Gap-filling with stick.

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Well, it seems that using epoxy on wood is actually very different than using 6011 on mild steel.Go ahead, laugh. Anyway, while welding some very ill-fitting parts on an exhaust pipe, I figured that I could just fill in all the gaps with the electrode, since it didn't have to be strong at all. It didn't work. I mean, the gaps filled in, but upon closer inspection, it looks like they filled in with slag, not with the actual rod, and consequently it all started leaking. So, maybe it's not something you're supposed to do with welding. I suppose I should just cut out a little 1/2" sliver of metal to weld over the gap, rather than try to use the 6011 or 7014 to fill in the gap? How do you hold something that small in place to weld it? I know, I'm very inexperienced and clueless, and probably shouldn't be trying half the stuff I do. But if I keep trying stupid stuff, maybe one day I'll be good enough to stop asking these stupid questions.
Reply:Chip the flux off another rod and lay it in there, then weld over it   TIG style with a rod and it works, you can at least keep the heat up a touch and get a good one in there.I'd rather be hunting........USE ENOUGH HEAT.......Drifting around Aussie welding more pipe up, for something different.....wanting to get home.
Reply:im going to assume u dont have access to a mig and also, i do some really silly things alot. sometimes it works other times i have to try another way or ask. its the only way to find out and learn.I THINK THIS IS MY 10th POST !
Reply:Not sure about exhaust pipes.....But interestingly enough.You can fill a bad gap by whipping the daylights out of the rod.  Take the slag off the top of the ratcrap, but leave the slag on the bottom of the hole.  The slag actually helps to hold the metal from the second pass.  There's slag on the underside of a weld too if it's over a gap.  Sometimes slag is a good thing, it forms a bridge underneath the weld metal.Weird, but true.  In a pinch, it might be your only hope of filling a bad gap.If you have access to the other side of the weld, you can always clean that slag out, and make a pass from that side too."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:I forgot to emphasize the SECOND PASS over the gap after first fill"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Crap, I filled some healthy gaps yesterday, I should have taken some pics.  I'll do it next time."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:You can build it up on side, and build it up on the other side, and keep building up each side alternately untill they meet in the middle, then join them.   Chip slag after each pass as you go along.   6013 or 7014 are better for that than 6010 or 6011.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Originally Posted by DesertRider33You can build it up on side, and build it up on the other side, and keep building up each side alternately untill they meet in the middle, then join them.   Chip slag after each pass as you go along.   6013 or 7014 are better for that than 6010 or 6011.
Reply:i dont mean to sound ignorant to this but with all these multiple passes on exhaust pipe i think u would eventually burn through. that is if were talking automotive exhaust.
Reply:stop after each pass and clean slag. let cool and repeat
Reply:Yeah if were talking about a car exhaust, you should weld it with your cables backwards (reverse polarity) so you have the heat on your exhaust and not your rod don't wanna burn anymore holes.
Reply:Yes use reverse polarity with your 6011 turn it WAY WAY WAY down like to zero then bump it up till you can hold an arc, and not just for filling a gap but for welding thin stuff. a patch sounds like a good ideaDAG NABIT, I left my tape on the saw.Wild Fire Welding
Reply:You guys sure you don't mean Straight Polarity (DCEN, electrode negative) ?   Straight polarity would be 'running the cables backwards', for me anyways, since I normally weld stick in DCEP (stinger on the positive cable).  It was my understanding that DCEP gives more penetration and DCEN gives less penetration?  I don't use DCEN for anything but TIG and fluxcore, so maybe I'm off my rocker in saying that...?MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:with the process samm is talking about there's not much danger of burning through.  in fact all your doing is leaving little driplets until you have enough built up that you have something to work with.  i've welded gaps greater than inch across this way. its not really a good idea to weld across a gap so big, it took three days, but i was on a job working for the government and we had waaay more people than we needed, so i was trying to make myself look busy.
Reply:Originally Posted by wirehuntChip the flux off another rod and lay it in there, then weld over it   TIG style with a rod and it works, you can at least keep the heat up a touch and get a good one in there.
Reply:This looks like a good lesson in the importance of a good fit-up!- If you can jump across it you can weld it!  - anonymous old boilermaker
Reply:Originally Posted by denrepThe TIG/Stick trick of feeding a second filler does work on thin stuff. Snap the flux off an electrode to use as the second filler.Before we change polarity, how do we know what Skippii is using now, or if he's even running DC rather than AC?Since the majority of my stick work is EP or reverse polarity, to me,  "cables backwards" would also mean EN or straight polarity, which would concentrate heat at the work.But back to:Skipii - If it were mine, I would use an all-forgiving, ever-lasting, stainless steel band clamp, to join or seal the exhaust!  Faster, stronger, cheaper!
Reply:Originally Posted by SkippiiAC only. It's where the two cylinders connect, so unfortunately a clamp won't work.. . . . . . I took some pics, and I'll post them later. . .
Reply:You guys sure you don't mean Straight Polarity (DCEN, electrode negative) ?
Reply:A coat hanger and A/O works wellDAG NABIT, I left my tape on the saw.Wild Fire Welding
Reply:Use a head shield, electrode holder in right hand , filler rod in left hand or reverse if you are left handed.  just like tig welding, I have used 1/4 " rod as filler rod or knock of the flux of welding rod ,works great.  Works for me .  Jim
Reply:Originally Posted by GremlinUse a head shield, electrode holder in right hand , filler rod in left hand or reverse if you are left handed.  just like tig welding, I have used 1/4 " rod as filler rod or knock of the flux of welding rod ,works great.  Works for me .  Jim
Reply:Okay, I'm not going to say "Critique this" because this is obviously so incredibly far from anything like what a weld should look like.I suppose "What the HELL?" would be a more appropriate question to ask. Here's the deal. I tried my hand at some gap-filling with 7014, 3/32". I tried it on a variety of amps, from as low as I could start an arc (and then with difficulty) to as high as my welder will go (70 or 80 amps, I think). Really didn't change much either way. I also tried some 6013 1/8" I had, and again, no real differences. The gap-filling itself wasn't too hard. I could quite easily close the gap. But then when I started to chip off the slag, it startecd to look pretty bad. So I grabbed an angle grinder, and ground off the surface to take a look at what was underneath the outer covering. Here's what it looked like after lightly grinding: Attached Images"To tell which polarity to use go to the bathroom and pour some water down the drain. If it runs clockwise use straight polarity. If it runs counter-clockwise use reverse polarity. Or if it just gurgles use alternating current." -RandomDave
Reply:And here's what it looked like after chipping off some of the slag: Attached Images"To tell which polarity to use go to the bathroom and pour some water down the drain. If it runs clockwise use straight polarity. If it runs counter-clockwise use reverse polarity. Or if it just gurgles use alternating current." -RandomDave
Reply:Originally Posted by SkippiiProbably just a silly thought....Is there no shock hazard associated with holding a metal rod in one hand and sticking it into the middle of an electric arc? I suppose not, since it's pretty much the same as TIG that way.Originally Posted by denrepHey Skippii,Are you trying to weld a stainless steel exhaust manifold?Patiently waiting for pics.
Reply:Originally Posted by SkippiiAC only.
Reply:You're trying to fill an ENORMOUS gap on thin exhaust tubing, with rods that aren't really for whipping.  There isn't an aspect of this project that DOESN'T lend itself to what is basically a giant ball of slag with bits of weld in it.  Cut it all out, and patch in a filler piece to do it right.  What you've got there is beyond gone.
Reply:You can't weld air!That's not a gap, that's just a huge hole.Cut a metal patch and weld THAT to the tubing.Or (as mentioned)  you have to find an edge of 'decent' metal and carefully lay a bead on that metal.  Then you find another 'decent' edge of metal and carefully lay a bead on there.  And you keep building up those tiny beads, but not so much UP as 'across' to slowly (SLOWLY) narrow down the gap and eventually be able to bridge across it and close the gap.But keep in mind how much welding electrodes cost versus how much a little scrap of sheet metal (or even a muffler tube connector slit open and cut-n-beat into rough desired shape) costs.  The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...
Reply:Yeah, I didn't really expect it to work, but I figured it was worth the experiment.I did cut it all out and put on piece of scrap. It's the end section of the header pipe on my motorcycle. As far as whether or not it's stainless...I'm not completely sure. It's got to be SOME sort of stainless, but there's rust on it and magnets stick to it, so it can't be all that stainless. The welding rods seem to work fine on it."To tell which polarity to use go to the bathroom and pour some water down the drain. If it runs clockwise use straight polarity. If it runs counter-clockwise use reverse polarity. Or if it just gurgles use alternating current." -RandomDave
Reply:Originally Posted by SkippiiYeah, I didn't really expect it to work, but I figured it was worth the experiment.I did cut it all out and put on piece of scrap. It's the end section of the header pipe on my motorcycle. As far as whether or not it's stainless...I'm not completely sure. It's got to be SOME sort of stainless, but there's rust on it and magnets stick to it, so it can't be all that stainless. The welding rods seem to work fine on it.