Vertical Stick welding tips

admin

I'm looking for some tips welding vertically.  I made several welds today with varying success.  One weld looked good, a couple had the dreaded "droopy puddle" look.  I was welding 1/4 steel w/6011 AC at 100 amp.
Reply:Vertical UP?  Keep moving, watch the puddle.  If you pause in the center, it will sag.  Pause at the sides to omit undercutting.  Please post pics if you can.  It sounds like your settings are close.  1/8" rod?DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Yes, I was told that moving up was the way to go.  And yes it was 1/8 rod.I'll post a couple of pictures tomorrow. (even though I hate to post even my best flat welds here).
Reply:Practice at 45 degrees and when you get good at that move to steeper angle until your vertical. For going uphill hold your rod nearly square to the work, maybe have the tip 10 degrees higher than the holder.
Reply:I have not tried enough of 6011 to know, only 7018. But when I started with 7018, it was enough to lay the work piece flat and run some beads, then tip it up a few degrees and run some more. Only tip the piece up when you are happy with your beads. Just keep progressing at steeper and steeper angles. David has it exactly right, hold at the edge until the edge of the crater fills, then move to the other side of the bead as you move up a bit.City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:And dont waste any time in the middle. Flick it from side to side.
Reply:The amps sound close but everybody's welder is a bit different. Try a few less amps than you like to use for flat work.
Reply:I'll try these tips and post some "before" (very ugly) pics and hopefully some better "after" shots.
Reply:I will just say this, hold the side, hold the side, hold the side , hold the side, hold the side, hold the side, hold the side, etc..... get the picture.Disclaimer; "I am just an a$$hole welder, don't take it personally ."
Reply:I feel my hand wanting to do the weave as I type . Concidering I did it all day my hand is on muscel memory.Disclaimer; "I am just an a$$hole welder, don't take it personally ."
Reply:Tozzi, Let me see if I understand what your saying; I should weld where? I wasn't able to try it tonight, but will give a try tomorrow.
Reply:Fast across the face then hang on the sides, for capping, for other runs depending on setup, a lot more fluid, keep more or less one speed but don't stop anywhere.I'd rather be hunting........USE ENOUGH HEAT.......Drifting around Aussie welding more pipe up, for something different.....wanting to get home.
Reply:Haven't any of you ever ran 6010 or 6011 Vup. Turn your machine down to around 70 amps. For 1/4" material and 1/8" filler in the flat position you should only be running about 85-90 amps. Don't weave those two electrodes they are not 7018. Keep your electrode right in the root of your material. Initiate your arc let a dime size puddle form in the root then whip  your electrode upwards while still maintianing your arc. This lets the puddle solidify. The when it solidifies bring your electrode back down and put another dime on the leading edge of the solidified one. Keep doing this until weld is complete. This will leave you with decent cosmetic welds. The end result should look like a stack of dimes all the way up. 6010 & 6011 are fast freeze electrodes and do not have time to wet out and form nice beads. The appearance is how good you can manipulate the puddle. Thats just my input and i have 4 certifications and 2 welding degrees.
Reply:GLWelder, I attend Ferris State University in Big Rapids. So your damn close haha how weird
Reply:Hey Go1lum, yep right down 131.   My brother was in the PGA prgram at Ferris and I've hit the little white ball around the university course.  Thanks for the feedback.  I have been busier then heck with the kids football, CC, scouts etc... so I haven't welded much.  I will try lowering the amps a bit.  I did pickup up some 6013 and the welds look much better, though my vertical still sucks.  I will update when I when I get better.
Reply:If your running 6013 vertical don't try running it v up it sucks. In stead of your welding 1/4" turn your machine up to about 130ams and try it vertical down. Very sweet looking beads. Just takes a couple practice times before you get the hang of moving faster to stay ahead of your slagg. Very easy electrode to use vertical down.
Reply:Thanks again,  I will try it and post the pics if they aren't too embarrassing.
Reply:K i'll keep my eye out for them
Reply:Originally Posted by Go1lumIf your running 6013 vertical don't try running it v up it sucks. In stead of your welding 1/4" turn your machine up to about 130ams and try it vertical down. Very sweet looking beads. Just takes a couple practice times before you get the hang of moving faster to stay ahead of your slagg. Very easy electrode to use vertical down.
Reply:Hey Welderboy read all the post. He is running 6013 now and 6013 was not designed to run vertical up. Try it sometime and you'll realize why. There is nothing wrong with welding vertical down.
Reply:Originally Posted by Go1lum There is nothing wrong with welding vertical down.
Reply:Hey just came accross this thread and have been prcticing my vertical welding. Im welding at 70 amps v up using a 2.5mm 6013 electrode. I got to a point where it looked ok but very rough when you run finger over it. Was wondering if anyone could give me some hints as to what i can try to improve my welds.Sorry for the poor quality pics.
Reply:Get better pics.  I think it looks pretty good.DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:6013 is just not a very good vertical up electrode.
Reply:Ok so what rod should i be looking at using. Also what weave pattern is best to get best cosmetic/strength weld? The ones in the pics were half moon movements but may try arrow head next time.Here is a better pic.I think one of the major problems was i didn't pause long enough at each edge giving the puddle time to build. Please critique my weld and any advise would be appreciated.
Reply:Originally Posted by SANGEROk so what rod should i be looking at using. Also what weave pattern is best to get best cosmetic/strength weld? The ones in the pics were half moon movements but may try arrow head next time.
Reply:Originally Posted by SANGERHere is a better pic.I think one of the major problems was i didn't pause long enough at each edge giving the puddle time to build.
Reply:Originally Posted by WelderBoyWas that 6013?  What were your settings?  It looks a lot like you just aren't melting enough rod.  Search for the 7018 vertical up video by David R.  It shows how a weave from root out should be run.I would suggest ditching the weave until you master stringer beads.  Just a straight welds.
Reply:I think you need to weave even the root pass on vertical up.  One method  to try a stringer is move the rod up one rods width. Wait for the puddle to catch up and move again.  I dunnowhatyacallit.  If you go too fast you will get undercutting.  Works with MIG too.  Any position.I'll try 6013 on monday and take some pics.DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Ok cool looking forward to seeing your welds.
Reply:Here ya go.  1/8 6013 DCEP (reverse polarity) 1/2" plate, vertical up fillet.  130 amps.This is as close as I could get to a stringer.  I had to whip it, and I don't know if that is proper with 6013.DavidOh yeah, Invertec 350 pro.  Arc force set in the middle.Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Nice.... Is that v up or v down. Can you please tell me what weave pattern you used. Also to get a flat weld like that do you need to hold the edges to build the pool then quickly whip accross and hold other sideand slowly move up or am i missing something?Got some rod burning to do
Reply:Originally Posted by SANGERNice.... Is that v up or v down. Can you please tell me what weave pattern you used. Also to get a flat weld like that do you need to hold the edges to build the pool then quickly whip accross and hold other sideand slowly move up or am i missing something?Got some rod burning to do
Reply:Sanger it also looks to me that you are trying to climb too fast, I'm looking for the right words here, your weave should be closer together. What you are doing with a weave is in effect laying one run down over another run so keep your weaves closer together.Maybe someone else can put this into better English than I am.Clive
Reply:Sangar, I personally like 6013 for vertical up, CIG Weldcraft 6013 being the one I will got to for preference. I have welded a few kilometers of 4 inch pipeline with it and there are a few buildings still standing that have been through a couple of earthquakes in NZ and we had a cat 4 cyclone earlier this year in WA and my jobs withstood that too so I have no problem with the strength. As far as strength goes, do a vertical down on a minesite in WA and you will be sacked on the spot. They might look pretty but they will fail under a load test.The only rods used V -down for a code is 6010 (Pipecraft for example) or one of the cellulose pipe rods but they are not used as much in industry as they used to be.With the weldcraft on about 85 amps for starters. If you get your amps right you can drag the rod accross the top of the weave you have just done without it sticking and this will control the amount of lift as you climb. Don't weave more than 2.5 times the width of your rod and try counting 1(accross) 2,3, (pause) 1(back again) 2,3 (pause) and so on.ps, The 6013 perform best, or should I say I prefer them on AC. Use DC and I'd go to low hydrogen.Last edited by clive; 10-08-2007 at 11:30 PM.
Reply:I just started vertical up in class. Instructor had me do stringer beads vert. up with 6013 1/8". I couldn't get the hang of it. Had it set on dc+ between 75-90 amps. Just kept getting blobs. I tried speeding up, slowing down and playing with heat but never got it to look good at all.
Reply:It took me one semester to get the hang of it.    Keep trying, keep the amps low.DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:understand what your saying, i remember in class us doing two pcs of 1" for vertical up. the instructor wanted us to run root pass with 6011, the cleanit out and run the rest with 7018. then the next class with same size metal, one side was only 6011 root too fill, and the other side 7018. then the following week, he gave us the same metal and said test time.... weld it up, then were cutting it and bending. talking about making you sweat.... but anway we ran 6011 stringer (root) then weave the 7018 go side to side in a Z pattern it also helps with undercut.MikeHH210Hobart Champ 10KLincoln Buzz BoxCampbell Hausfeld 115Victor JourneymanMilwaukee 14" Chop Saw7" Chop Saw4/12" horz band sawmetal benderother toys forthcoming.
Reply:I hate 6013! But. I have not used them since high school, which was a couple of years back. When running a weave up, I have found that the shorter you can keep your up-steps, the smoother the bead. What I mean is when you go to the other side do so quickly and do not move up more than say 1/3 the width of the rod. If you make a large step up from side to side, you will get rough uneven welds.  I believe one reason schools use 6013 is because they are low cost rods and behave somewhat like a 7018. I would suggest for the root, do not weave, just try to run it like a flat and use a very close arc with a little extra amperage to make it penetrate and tie in. Always be on the lookout for a swirling motion in your slag puddle that will almost always give you a slag entrapment that looks like a buthole. Just some suggestions.SA200,Ranger8,Trailblazer251NT,MM250,Dayton225AC,T  D-XL75,SpoolMate3545SGA100C,HF-15-1  RFCS-14 When I stick it, it stays stuck!
Reply:Have to disagree with you, while I like low hydrogen, on a/c a 6013 gives a beautiful verticle up, I learnt on them over 40 years ago and still like 'em.Try this link, you have to scroll down but the pictures speak for themselves.http://www.shopfloortalk.com/forums/...ad.php?t=13241
Reply:I recently had to practice some veritcal up for an upcoming installation.  I used 6013 on a dc machine.  For the root with 6013 I just push up, no whip.  That is what the directions say to do.I have not heard anybody distinguish between underfill and undercut.  I learned the underfill term a few months ago from a welding journal.  Basically, under cut is too much heat, while underfill is not allowing the puddle to fill catch up with the rod.Knowing the terms saved a lot of frustration for me.  Because no matter how long you hesitate if heat it too high, then undercut will always occur.  On the other hand if you move to fast then there will be underfill regardless of heat.Also, on the weave once you get the shelf started the just continue to drag the puddle across the shelf.  I don't do just go straight.  Sanger, In your photo, I think you need a little more heat.  Find the puddle.  The pattern happens on its own.  You just have concentrate on moving and allowing the puddle to wet the sides (Pausing).
Reply:Yes, underfill is a void left between the parent metal and the filler metal while undercut is as you defined.Anything worth doing is worth doing RIGHT
Reply:Originally Posted by Go1lum7018 has to be about the most versital electrode avialable. Umm as far as weave what ever works the best, i just move side to side and pause in the corners for my puddle to build up. 7018 runs the same in any position for me. Extremly easy in 1,2,3,&4 G & F positions even 5&6
Reply:One things real clear, there's no pipeliners in this  bunch.  no strength in a down hill pass?  BS.  Do it all the time. 6010's  on .250 wall steel casings for pushing under roads with a auger boring rig. And I put some stress on it. 100,000 lbs and up.  3 passes, stinger, filler and cap .  Its my bread and butter  It can be done both ways. If done correctly, a down hill pass  is plenty strong and looks a lot better, ( my opinion)  , I know that and a 1.00 will get ya a cup of jo some places.the gorilla that made it hold Ranger 8  15 yrs old SP150 mig 25 yrs old several Victor sets Snap On 130 mig  25 yrs old Lincoln 225 buzz box SA200  F163  78 mdl they all work just added a Idealarc 250/250
Reply:Originally Posted by papa65One things real clear, there's no pipeliners in this  bunch.
Reply:Cheese head huh   Pipeliners and wire welders?  Now thats a oxymoron, Old ones anyway.  I'm not a pipeline welder by a long shot. as the sig say's, I just make it hold.  Better get some warm tents around them joints if ya want them liners to stay in Wisconsin in the winter time   If it's all the same I'll stay down here in Tennessee this winter, Might even go farther south, been know to go to Fla for a mo or 2. Old bones don't like the cold anymore. Ya'' keep em straight up there , Ya hear ??the gorilla that made it hold Ranger 8  15 yrs old SP150 mig 25 yrs old several Victor sets Snap On 130 mig  25 yrs old Lincoln 225 buzz box SA200  F163  78 mdl they all work just added a Idealarc 250/250
Reply:My understanding is that the 6010 is the only rod acceptable for down welding. I have seen 7018 welds pop under there own stress when run in the downhill fashion. And I am sure there is no spec/procedure for it.SA200,Ranger8,Trailblazer251NT,MM250,Dayton225AC,T  D-XL75,SpoolMate3545SGA100C,HF-15-1  RFCS-14 When I stick it, it stays stuck!
Reply:this is for  go1lum you said you have what four certs and 2 degres what did you pay for those cause you didnt earn them it is people like you down hilling that will keep welders like me and most of the others on here busy grinding out **** welds and vert up a well... real weld back over that droopy non penatrating **** you lay
Reply:o well you can run 5p down but if you know what you are doing but any pipe i weld and pressure vessell get a Lh or 7018 cap sorry fellow pipers didnt mean to blow up just get way tired or no balls having downhillers