newb question about metal thickness welding

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im a newb in welding, all i am doing now is pre studying till i have enough money to take welding courses .. but i got a question, in welding thickness, if the metal is the same type, what do you raise or lower, or do differently other than amp's in order to do a proper weld, like 1" VS 2".. etc..
Reply:im not 100% sure of yer question, but a guideline often used is 1 amp per thousandth of metal , so 1/8" metal is .125" t hick so youd use 125 amps..that said ,  its often wrong.. most welds on thicker metal are done in multiple passes, one over / alongside the other..a joint in 1" thick steel might involve a root pass at 80 amps and over top of that you might switch to 120 amps and thicker passes.. welcome and good luck..read all you can, it will start to fit together ...
Reply:Some recommendations:Steve Bleil’s videos, OA, Stick, Mig, Flux Core all depending on your rig.Miller’s book, Gas Metal Arc Welding.Millers Slide rule, MilerMatic Calculator. There are other books and videos on the web too.
Reply:Some of this is dependent on the process if I understand your question.With stick you don't just increase the amps, you also usually go up in rod size. (No comments from the peanut gallery! ) Thin steels are usually welded with 1/16" or 3/32" rod. Thicker steels with 1/8" or 5/32". Also some rods lay down more material then others and that can also be a factor. Some rods also have more penetration than others, so they are better with some sorts of things and joint designs.With mig you adjust voltage rather than amps. It amounts to about the same thing, you are turning up the "heat". With this you also have to turn up the wire speed at the same time. More volts, more wire. Again also it's very common to increase the wire size. .023 is good for sheet metal, but it won't carry enough volts to weld 1" plate. .045 and larger would be a better choice. It carries more volts, and lays down more material.Then there is the topic of joint design. Thin material usually needs little or no joint prep. Thicker materials usually require some sort of joint prep to gain the maximum strength. This usually means a gap on smaller metals or some sort of V groove, single sided or double sided. This gets your weld down deep into the metal and lets you weld on a larger surface area.
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWWith mig you adjust voltage rather than amps. It amounts to about the same thing, you are turning up the "heat". With this you also have to turn up the wire speed at the same time. More volts, more wire. Again also it's very common to increase the wire size. .023 is good for sheet metal, but it won't carry enough volts to weld 1" plate. .045 and larger would be a better choice. It carries more volts, and lays down more material..
Reply:Seemed to be an easier way to explain it to someone who is new, rather than try and explain the some what complicated relationship between voltage and amps in CC vs CV systems. Hence the "quotes" around the word heat, but I understand your point of clarification. The word "power", again in quotes, didn't seem to fit as well as "heat". Most people tend to think of changing the taps that control the voltage as "turning up the heat" on a mig.Last edited by DSW; 08-01-2009 at 04:25 PM..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:What does it matter if they are new or not, telling them the wrong information will only hinder them.  Just because most people think one thing, doesn't make it right.Also, this has nothing to do with CC vs. CV, just understanding the terminology.Have we all gone mad?
Reply:This is paraphrasing the Miller manual, Gas Metal Arc welding. The wire feed speed is proportional to the current and determines the depth of penetration of the puddle. Selecting the heat, controls the fluidity of the puddle and how the puddle flows outward. The recommended procedure is to set the wire feed speed [current] for the thickness of the metal and tune the heat [voltage] for the best puddle, then they show a burn-off graph.Adjust the voltage down [heat] until the wire starts to stub, take note of that point. Next, increase the voltage [heat] until the arc becomes unstable and sloppy, take note of that point. Set the voltage control [heat] in the center of that range. Small variations in the wire stick-out will keep the arc voltage constant. Most Migs are setup the other way around because the voltage [heat] is adjusted by a step switch to select the voltage in accordance to a chart related to the metals thickness. The high and low limits are tested in the same manor with the wire speed control and set to the middle of the range. Then it goes on to say that both controls are used to tune for the best results. Once set, varying the distance from the contact tip to the puddle will change the heat and allow small changes in the puddle to control the puddle penetration, a short sickout gives more heat at the start to avoid a cold weld and a longer sickout less heat to allow bridging gaps. Kind of contradicts itself. Then the book goes on about inductance and globular and spray arc transfer, selecting gas, wire types, joint setup, faults.Last edited by transit; 08-01-2009 at 05:42 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by transitSome recommendations:Steve Bleil’s videos, OA, Stick, Mig, Flux Core all depending on your rig.Miller’s book, Gas Metal Arc Welding.Millers Slide rule, MilerMatic Calculator. There are other books and videos on the web too.
Reply:Woah, hang on there.  No way you need to spend even close to that on books, I have a fair amount of advanced welding courses this upcoming year and wont even spend half of that on books.Lincoln has a great selection of very compact, cheap books that are outstanding resources.  The proceduce handbook of arc welding (the bible) is one, and metals and how to weld them is another.  Both can be had for $50 I believe and will give you more than enough to read up on for a long time. Put that money to better use for equipment or classes.  Books make outstanding resources, but IMO really dont teach you much.Have we all gone mad?
Reply:http://www.esabna.com/EUWeb/AWTC/Lesson1_1.htmhttp://content.lincolnelectric.com/p...ture/c4200.pdfEd Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:Originally Posted by Broccoli1http://www.esabna.com/EUWeb/AWTC/Lesson1_1.htmhttp://content.lincolnelectric.com/p...ture/c4200.pdf
Reply:Originally Posted by snappy101the net is the last place id search for factual information, this forum is about all id listen to from the net, but thanks for the post
Reply:Originally Posted by DSW You'll listen to anybody here but you won't use as a reference info links 2 of the largest manufactures of welding equipment and consumables?  The responses to this quote should be interesting.
Reply:Do yourself a favor and dont take anything you see here as fact until you check it out somewhere else.  This is probably one of the least credible sources of information you can find on the net.Have we all gone mad?
Reply:I would quite go that far sn0border88 but you do have to be on here a while to figure out who knows and who is playing....Though I will say I have learned a lot through books and online, I think that is really true once you get one kind of welding down. Learning to control the puddle whether it is electric or gas is a big part, yeah yeah TIGing stainless tube with a pulser or spot welding is different but if the boy learns to make the puddle do what he wants that is a great basis. Just my 1 1/2 cents....Lincoln Tombstone 225 A/C Steel StickerOld Victor O2/Acetylene setupMiller Syncrowave 250 Tig/PC-300 PulserMiller Millermatic 212 Mig HTP Invertatig 201 Giant Teck D50 Plasma cutterLots of HF grinders
Reply:The videos show close-ups of the arc process. You can see the difference in the weld puddle between solid and flux core wire. The ability to see the arc process alone is well worth the expense. Some videos show drop by drop how the wire is melted and deposited into the weld puddle, something you can’t normally see. Remember, there is no ONE SOURCE with all the information, read ten books and 99% of the information will be identical, that 1% will be the tidbits the other sources didn’t explain.
Reply:Originally Posted by sn0border88Do yourself a favor and dont take anything you see here as fact until you check it out somewhere else.  This is probably one of the least credible sources of information you can find on the net.
Reply:Originally Posted by transitThe videos show close-ups of the arc process. You can see the difference in the weld puddle between solid and flux core wire. The ability to see the arc process alone is well worth the expense. Some videos show drop by drop how the wire is melted and deposited into the weld puddle, something you can’t normally see. Remember, there is no ONE SOURCE with all the information, read ten books and 99% of the information will be identical, that 1% will be the tidbits the other sources didn’t explain.