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Does anyone use a tri mix of this or close to 2% Oxygen, 5% CO2 and 93% Argon and what you think of it.Even though it has low CO2 content, with the O2 it should still flatten the bead out.Can you spray arc with a mix like this?
Reply:Hello larryo, pretty much any gas with 80% or greater argon content will allow for a "true" spray arc. I put it that way because the transition area between spray arc and globular transfer isn't black and white so you might think that you are achieving spray transfer with a particlar gas and set of parameters when by definition you actually might not be. Are you using this gas for mild steel applications? There are many different arguments that have gone on for some time with regard to tri-mix gases, some are adamant as to their need and applications and others are of the direct opposite mindset. Many folks reserve the tri-mix gases for applications with stainless steels and others use them for a host of different materials. Just a bit for you to consider. Best regards, Allanaevald
Reply:Miller shows Tri-mix may be used to Spray Arc if the arc voltage is in the range of 23 32 volts depending on material thickness.
Reply:LarryO,Never seen (here in the US) a tri-mix of Ar, CO2, and O2.For spray transfer I've used 98%Ar/2%O2 or 92%Ar/8% CO2.Technically, any two part gas mix of Ar/CO2 with less than 18% CO2 can be used for spray transfer. Some will claim that they achieve spray transfer with C25 (75%Ar/25% CO2), however the data doesn't support it. What they most likely are getting is a form of globular transfer, rather than a true spray.I really can see no advantage to using both CO2 and O2 in an Argon mix.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:I've spary arched with 90% Argon 8% Co2 and 2% O2 at about 25 volts and wirespeed at 381 with the amps above 175, ran great. In the vertical and overhead postion though 21 1/2 volts and 325wfs is optimal for me on my machine.
Reply:Thanks for ALL the great replies. Been using a 7% Oxygen and 93% Argon mix for years, just thought i would try something different for a change.Would the O2 give more added heat than CO2?Do you think this gas will weld with the same type of heat as the mix i used previous?I will hook it up tomorrow and give try and post results with my thoughts.
Reply:Larry, I’m suprised you can spray arc out of position with such a wet puddle, it’s not recommended.
Reply:Originally Posted by transitLarry, Im surprised you can spray arc out of position with such a wet puddle, its not recommended.
Reply:oopps!!
Reply:I believe tri-mix is usually used for stainless.Go hot, or go home!
Reply:Originally Posted by transitLarry, I’m suprised you can spray arc out of position with such a wet puddle, it’s not recommended.
Reply:LarryO,As I mentioned, I've never used a tri-mix with those three gasses.The 98%AR/2%O2 runs a little hotter than the 92%Ar/8%CO2. The Argon/O2 mix is used most frequently when spray welding with machines near their "limit".As far as "spray arc" welding, without pulse, out of position (vertical/overhead), I've found the puddle to be extremely difficult if not impossible to control.I'd sure like to see some photos of the welds DymondBoy2F made for that test.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIILarryO,As I mentioned, I've never used a tri-mix with those three gasses.The 98%AR/2%O2 runs a little hotter than the 92%Ar/8%CO2. The Argon/O2 mix is used most frequently when spray welding with machines near their "limit".As far as "spray arc" welding, without pulse, out of position (vertical/overhead), I've found the puddle to be extremely difficult if not impossible to control.I'd sure like to see some photos of the welds DymondBoy2F made for that test.
Reply:How thick were the coupons, and why was vertical up, spray arc mandated?Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIIHow thick were the coupons, and why was vertical up, spray arc mandated?
Reply:Originally Posted by DymondBoy2fAbout the best I can do is show you the alternate peice that didn't get bent because my root and face passed and I'm sure they're rusted and would need some brushing.This picture is from a buddies test. (that he passed) 3G mig spray arching...If you can't control the puddle to produce this...sorry. This isn't even a great face because he rushed it.edit: I just have the pieces that went through the bend machine. Must've tossed the alternates, I can still post the pics if you'd like.
Reply:Originally Posted by El_Lloydeoi dont buy it, like sundown said impossible to control out of position. this is why its limited to flat and horizontal only. ive heard guys tell me they can do this too and they set their volts and wfs pretty low and its like wait! you said spray! in order to have a true spray you have to be above the transition current. a guy already tried to prove it to me in an overhead groove joint, i caught him in there welding it flat.
Reply:Originally Posted by DymondBoy2f...Ok, impossible maybe if you're not a good weldor. Sorry to step on toes there if I do but I've passed a 3G and 4G test on those 3/8" groove welds in true spray arc (and true position) since the instructor checked the machine and test piece before the test took place as well as after every pass(the root also needs a restart in it). my volts and wfs was at no lower than 150 amps in those positions (21.5v/325wfs for both 3G and 4G). I've actually found my 4G test (u bends and alternate) and can clean them up and post them up if you'd like to see it. I had to grind down the face to pass the visual inspection height the last half of the test which the alternate shows (no more than 1/8" height) but considering I only did 2 practice groove welds spray arching before the test and had only short circuit welded overhead previously I don't consider it too bad. Had I practiced more I could've gotten it to pass without grinding.
Reply:My miller calculator shows that for 3/8 steel using 0.045 wire minimum it takes 300 amps at 24-25 volts depending on the shielding gas.0.035 wire would be 21-25 volts @ 220-250 amps. Sorry, you’re in short circuit territory.
Reply:Originally Posted by El_Lloydeo21.5 volts is short circuiting range, im assuming you tested with .035 wire? the transition voltage is at least 24 volts for .035 for spray transfer. still impossible. as far as good welders goes, im not one to brag about my skill or anything, but im willing to bet that ive put more pounds of tack down than you have weld. shoot me a video showing your machine settings in spray range and you doing the test and i will believe you.
Reply:I don't buy it that the vert cap in that pic was done with true, non-pulsed, spray transfer mig. I can pulsed spray in all positions acceptably with my 350P but not true non-pulsed spray, at least not with the 98/2 gas I use for spray, or with 85/15, or with 75/25, or with pure CO2, or with pure argon. That is all the gasses I have so if there's a mystery gas out there that allows true spray mig in all positions, post it up!MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:ive run way too much spray in my life to believe that was welded with the spray transfer. doesnt even look pulsed. it looks like a short circuiting weave. if u dont wanna believe me then believe one of the other guys telling you it doesnt work. i know i cant do that with the spray transfer and i really doubt a welding student can. im not calling u a liar i just dont think u understand the transfer modes correctly.
Reply:Dont know how youre doing spray with those parameters, Miller and Lincoln say it cant be done. If that were the case, my little putzey Century could do spray and I know it cant.Here are some sites with video of spray arc transfer.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_met..._welding#Sprayhttp://www.iu.hio.no/kurs/efc/welding/mig.htmhttp://www.weldreality.com/spray_transfer_above100.htm |
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发表于 2021-9-1 00:44:14