Stainless hardness

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I tried to make a type if knife out of 316 s.s., but the s.s. is not holding up like I was hoping.  It's 16ga material with an edge beveled into a knife blade, then it is folded over, about 1/8" back on one side.. I use a finger break to pull that one off.. we dont have any dies for the press to go that small.So I was wondering if anyone has used 317 or something simular.. I'm not sure that I can even break that short of a leg on that hard of material.-MikeOh yeah, I did try to heat and quench the s.s.  But it didnt make a difference. Attached ImagesCommon sense in an uncommon degree is what the world calls wisdom.
Reply:Originally Posted by BrainfarthI tried to make a type if knife out of 316 s.s., but the s.s. is not holding up like I was hoping.  It's 16ga material with an edge beveled into a knife blade, then it is folded over, about 1/8" back on one side.. I use a finger break to pull that one off.. we dont have any dies for the press to go that small.So I was wondering if anyone has used 317 or something simular.. I'm not sure that I can even break that short of a leg on that hard of material.-MikeOh yeah, I did try to heat and quench the s.s.  But it didnt make a difference.
Reply:The view with measurements is a flat layout, where upper image is a top view after it is broke.I look for any heat treating methods for 316.  It was a quick heat up and fast quench.  And it had the same results in my file test.Will 400 series bend easily?Common sense in an uncommon degree is what the world calls wisdom.
Reply:316 is not hardenable. And heating it and quenching it ANNEALS it- that makes it as soft as it is ever going to get.This is true for all 300 series (304, 303, etc.) Heating and quenching it is how you get it soft, not hard.The only way to harden 300 series is to work harden it. Which means the bent edge will be hard.Knifemakers dont use 300 series- they use 400 series.Try going to some of the knife web forums- there are guys there who REALLY know their stuff.Like this one-http://forums.dfoggknives.com/Its not expensive to buy a small piece of the right alloy- especially if you consider all the work that is wasted using the wrong stuff.You might also check out books by these two guys-Wayne Goddard http://www.knives.com/goddard.htmland Jim Hrisoulashttp://www.atar.com/old/index.php?mo...N_position=6:6The $50 Knife Shop and the Complete Bladesmith cover just about everything, in easy to understand ways.
Reply:None of the austenitic stainless grades are (annealing/stress relief aside) 'heat treatable'. Cold working will harden 'em a bit but that's itMartensitic stainless steels are used for knives. As said they belong to the 400 series family as do the ferritics. IIRC 420 is the alloy usually used- a quick play with google should get you quenching and tempering temperatures etc. I've not really worked with the martensitic grades much but 400 series work harden more like carbon steels than the 300 series alloys. As i understand it the martensitic grades are very formable in the annealed condition. Not as weldable as 300 series though
Reply:440C stainless makes a decent knife.  420 is used for knives as well.You typically get the stock in the annealed state, so its pretty workable, and easily grindable.  Don't try to heat treat stainless yourself.  The results will NOT be good.  There are places you can send a custom knife to (for not much $$), that do heat treating.  You just tell them what alloy you used, and they'll put it in, with a batch of similar stuff.
Reply:I called up http://www.metalsupermarkets.com/ (since they have a store in portland) to see what they can find for plate.  I asked for a rem 420 s.s. , 16ga.  Hopefully that will work out, then we can get a sheet or two of it.Common sense in an uncommon degree is what the world calls wisdom.
Reply:Wow... Just got a fax on some available 16 ga. staineless.. Under a grand for 410 or 430, 48" x 96"... That vendor couldnt find any 420 at the time of the fax.  That's a little more expensive that what I had first thought.   $30 a square foot or about 12 bucks a pound.Common sense in an uncommon degree is what the world calls wisdom.
Reply:Mike, below is a pic. I just took of steel rule die stock.This stock is .030 thick, .918 in height, 36.00" length and availablein other size variations.This is hardened, formable, available in single or double knife edge,perforated cutting patterns, etc.Since you haven't stated what the end application of your knife is, I don'tknow if this might be made to work.Steel rule tooling is a low cost, production method of die cutting/trimmingrubber, plastic, gasket material, and thin metals.http://weldingweb.com/attachment.php...1&d=1251753961 Attached ImagesBlackbird
Reply:Originally Posted by BrainfarthWow... Just got a fax on some available 16 ga. staineless.. Under a grand for 410 or 430, 48" x 96"... That vendor couldnt find any 420 at the time of the fax.  That's a little more expensive that what I had first thought.   $30 a square foot or about 12 bucks a pound.
Reply:430 is a ferritic alloy (non hardenable). 410 is martensitic, don't think it's used for quality knife blades though. Various martensitic grades covered >here< along with common applications
Reply:Funny.... I found a source of 430 s.s. for less than half the first quote so I ordered it... then I saw this message and had to cancel.  I'm still having trouble finding 420 s.s. plate on the west coast.Common sense in an uncommon degree is what the world calls wisdom.
Reply:Top quality knife makers also like:154cm  or  ats34 (they're both very similar, and high quality)s30v (VERY good stuff)vg10 (harder to find, and can be a little brittle)cowry-y (takes a FANTASTIC polish)All of these are superior for small blades to 440C, which is a pretty good compromise knife steel.  Still, without knowing your application, these may, or may not work for you.Better knife [stainless] steels run kind of hard, and brittle, which is a tradeoff you have to give up, for edge retention.For cutting abrasive materials, many people like stellite as well, but that's a totally different type of beast.
Reply:Knives are made from ferritic grades.There is lots of data on knife making online.It is all based on the work hardening that all SS features following hot and cold work.Check out ancient sword making information as well, this will provide some guidelines.Worth note, top quality fillet knives are made of relatively soft grades of SS.Cheers
Reply:Originally Posted by dave powelsonMike, below is a pic. I just took of steel rule die stock.This stock is .030 thick, .918 in height, 36.00" length and availablein other size variations.This is hardened, formable, available in single or double knife edge,perforated cutting patterns, etc.Since you haven't stated what the end application of your knife is, I don'tknow if this might be made to work.Steel rule tooling is a low cost, production method of die cutting/trimmingrubber, plastic, gasket material, and thin metals.http://weldingweb.com/attachment.php...1&d=1251753961
Reply:Have you tried contacting Carpenter Technologies?http://www.cartech.com/ssalloysprod.aspx?id=2118This company is a specialist in stainless steel.  See if they can connect you with a local service center that deals in their products.Here's a local service center that I've dealt with before.  It ain't on the west coast, but maybe they have another office closer to you.  Not sure what minimum order they'll do either.  But they might be able to connect you with someone suitable, if they can't help you.http://www.copperandbrass.com/cnb/products/index.htm$12 per pound sounds about right for stainless steel.  It ain't cheap... Originally Posted by BrainfarthFunny.... I found a source of 430 s.s. for less than half the first quote so I ordered it... then I saw this message and had to cancel.  I'm still having trouble finding 420 s.s. plate on the west coast.
Reply:Originally Posted by jericho777Dave you a printer?