My Welds Don't Stick

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My Welds Don't Stick - Lack of Weld AdhesionI am relatively new to welding and I am having problems getting my welds to stick together.Example:  Trying to get torx brake bolts off an 1989 Oldsmobile, I resorted to welding a ¼ inch thick, 18 inch long, 2 inch wide bar to the bolt head, then used a floor jack to lever up the bar, turning the bolt.  However, it took me four tries, grinding in between, to get the darn weld to hold – even though the surfaces of the bolt and bar were ground shining beforehand.I have several such experiences – with all kinds of metal joining.  I grind the two pieces to be joined very nice and shiny – then try to weld them together.  The welds just don’t stick the metal together very well; the welds come apart with a little twisting.  The problem: I can see either burn marks (from arc strikes) or left over gritty black carbon residue (slag?) that prevented the weld metal from fusing with the metal pieces.It seems that either the burn marks from starting the rod (3/32 inch 6011 at 75 amps AC) or a gritty black porous carbon-like residue (burnt slag?) gets emedded into the surface and prevents the welding.  I get the same effect when using my wire-feed welder (0.030 flux-core wire at ~50 amps DC).Any comments or suggestions as to what I may be doing wrong or what I might try to correct the problem?  Much appreciated.Rick V
Reply:Those bolts are medium carbon steel, use 7018 for better results.
Reply:I think you are trying to weld way too cold . try 85-90 amps , w/6011, or probably 20-30 more amps w/the core wire . (flux core )
Reply:could be that the torx bolts are hardend and therefore the weld won't stick.. hard to get weld to penetrate...and most times it just continues breaks off the hardend material......zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:burn it in
Reply:Don't get too hung up on the torx-bolt problem (dummest things to put on car brakes and accessible only from the back side; what's wrong with simple hex-head bolts?)  The torx-bolt thing was just the latest example of a common problem I continue to have.RE: Those bolts are medium carbon steel, use 7018 for better results.I don't know; I've experience similar problems with Lincoln 6013, Blue Shield 7014 (too much slag) and Lincoln 7018AC (darn hard to start - creates a lot of burn marks).RE: Roy Hodges suggestion, "I think you are trying to weld way too cold . try 85-90 amps , w/6011, or probably 20-30 more amps w/the core wire . (flux core)"RE: Prop Doctor with "burn it in"You fellows could be right.  My stick welder is 117 volt 35+ amp input with a variable core transformer with an AC output current of 30 through 85 amps.  I notice that I have far easier arc starting with the higher current settings but I felt that ~65-75 amps was giving me good control with 3/32 inch 6011.  Full bore at 85 amps seemed to eat up rods real quick - forcing me to go faster than I wanted for control.  (I've only used the 85 amp limit for 1/8 inch 6011 rod or for 3/32 inch 7018AC - that rod need more amps to start and to run.)As for flux core, my machine has 4 current settings; two (1, 2) for 15 amp 110 volt input and another two (3, 4) for 20 amp 110 volt input.  I tend to use the #2 or #3 setting... but I have noticed that with my current flux-core wire makes welds that stand high and proud...almost like fast freeze rod, so maybe I should be running on the max amp setting.I'll make some comparison tests - doing as I was and then upping the current as suggested.  I'll let you know what the verdict is.  Thanks - Rick V
Reply:Examine your fracture carefully.  Is the break line through the center of the weld? ( unlikely)  Often the fracture occurs next to the weld bead in the heat affected zone.  Torx bolts would at the least be an low alloy steel.  When you weld such an alloy the fast cooling after the weld makes for a brittle HAZ.  Multiple weld beads will re-heat the area reducing the possibility of a brittle fracture.  E 6011 electrodes tend to lay down a less ductile weld than other electrodes.  The black residue you mention is odd.  6011 produces a relatively thin layer of slag.  Make sure that your weld puddle is fusing both sides of the joint.  The only reason I can think of for you lack of succes is that you are holding too long an arc.  That will give you a cold weld and the deposit will be black because the cloud of burning flux was was unable to protect the molten metal.
Reply:Lotechman, no the break line is not through the center of the weld.  The weld (fillet) just does not adhere either to the vertical surface or to the horizontal surface; it's like a cold lap - no bite into the material.  (I probably have little to no heat affected zone!)  So, you were right to say, "Make sure that your weld puddle is fusing both sides of the joint."  That is not happening; it's fusing to one side or to the other - seldom to both at the same time. Comparison TestsI said I would make some comparison tests.  I made up 12 pieces of 1/4 inch thick steel, each about 2 x 2 inches, each ground clean and shiny.Then using two pieces to form an upside down 'T', I welded the fillet joint from one side.  I examined the result after clean up then put the welded T in a vice and hammered it apart.Here's what I got.117 volt AC Arc welder with 6011 rod at:65 Amps = high profile weld, wandered from sticking to vertical then to horizontal.  Hammered apart - weld was only fused in about 3 spots ~1/8 inch diameter.75 Amps = lower profile, still wandered from sticking to vertical then to horizontal.  Hammered apart - weld was only fused in about 5 spots ~1/8 inch diameter.85 Amps = lowest profile, less wandering from sticking to vertical then to horizontal.  Hammered apart - weld was fused in about 7 spots ~3/16 inch diameter.117 volt Wire feed welder with 0.030 flux-core wire at:~40 Amps = very high profile individual beads stung out along the T.  Very poor adhesion to vertical.  First try - the weld fell apart when I knocked the T-piece off the welding table.  Second try: it stayed together for the hammer test - weld was poorly fused in about 3 spots ~1/16 inch diameter.~55 Amps = string of beads was lower in profile, but the first weld fell apart when knocked from the table.  Second try: on the hammer test, it was a mite better than the 40 amp piece but still not stuck to any great degree.~70 Amps = at least the weld didn't fall apart when knocked from the table.  Yet in the vice, it came apart quickly with a few blows from the hammer - lack of fusion over most the length of the weld - like a cold lap.Observations:1 - Stick was way better than wire feed.  The wire feed was terrible!2 - Yes, the higher amperage of 85 amps gave the best result.3 - However, the 65 amps stick was good when I welded in the correct place.Conclusion:  I can see what I am doing!I suspect that is the main reason why my stick welds fuse to one side of the other but not to both; I am wandering about the T intersection but never right in the heart of the T.  Once I am off track, going back to correct is too late as the gap between the weld and the unfused surface is covered with slag - weld over that and ... no adhesion.I have an auto-darkening helmet (#9 - #12) tuned to lightest setting, lowest number - supposedly #9.  However, given the low amperage arc (65-85 amps), the lowest number filter setting is still too dark to allow me to see exactly where the arc is relative to the sides of the T joint.Once before, I tried lighting up the weld area with a couple of broad beam 500 watts quartz lights but that light was bright enough to trigger the auto-darking helmet on - what a pain.  Yet, I recall that I could at least see the configuration somewhat better.Solution:I think I am going to chuck my auto-dark helmet and go back to my cheap $12 helmet with a fixed #9 filter.  I intend to use a couple of 117 volt 50 watt quartz lights that are used for sunken ceiling lights - the bulbs have reflectors about two inches in diameter.  I figure to use a couple of those small, light weight, focused lamps right in close to light up my weld bright enough to see it clearly with my welding helmet on - the added arc light will just be bonus.  If I need to, I figure I can always change to an even lower number filter glass.I wish I had better news - but I learned a few things.Any comments?Thanks for all the help.Rick V
Reply:Yes you just don't have enough heat.  Remember that the closer the arc the higher the heat ( amperage) so keep a relatively close arc.  With 6010 and 6011 you can run over your bead with the arc while it is still warm and melt through the flux because the flux is so thin.  One tactic to try is a whip.  Move forward less than a quarter inch then back to one side then forward and back to the other side only slightly ahead then repeat this motion.  Imagine a "V " shape with the point going ahead into the corner.This would widen the bead and tie in each side as you go along.   Other than that .... You need a bigger machine.    Just so you know:  Also the shorter the stickout the higher the amperage for wire feed welders.  It is often only ten percent more but when you are marginal it sometimes does the trick.
Reply:Have you tried a#9  "gold lense "  ?  I can see much better through the gold lense . A  O  is the best (that i know of ) but, i do fine with a cheaper gold lense . i think it's a "green Diamond "  . Glass lense . the plastics , i don't like . I can guarantee  that if you see better, you CAN weld better . i seem to be able , when using a gold lense , to get by with one shade lighter than i can if i am using the ordinary lense , thereby  seeing better . THIS IS a big deal .
Reply:Lowtechman and Roy - thanks for the tips.When I read this morning what I wrote in the wee hours last night, I wonder if my point came across clearly.  I do get good penetration/fusion into one plate or the other of the T - just seldom both at the same time.  e.g. Good fusion = amperage is sufficient.Problem is that through my helmet I don't have enough light transmission to see where my stick is relative to the joint intersection.  I see the arc but not the line of the joint... I definetly never see the weld pool!  So, what happens is that I weld a nice bead into the horizontal plate just parallel to the vertical plate ... but not quite fused to it.  OR - I weld a nice bead into the vertical plate just parallel and slightly above the horizontal plate ... but not quite fused to it.  If I purposely wander back and forth across the line of the joint (where I suspect it is cause I can't quite see it), then I do get some spots of fusion into both plates.  If I could see, then I could maximize my weld fusion into both plates - and do the things that Lowtechman suggests.  It just is not possible now because I can't see where I am: the arc-yes, the weld puddle and the intersection of the joint - no.Thanks a heap - I plan to try the dual 50 watt quartz light thing.  If I have to drop down a shade, I'll Go for the Gold as Roy suggests based on experience.  I'll let you know what happens - but that may be a few days.Good advice - very much appreciated!Rick V
Reply:I have had the exact same problem.  When I first started learning to weld I was given a helmet with a  #12 lens and I couldn't't see the junction of the pieces I was trying to join.  Hence I  made nice welds wandering all over the place and getting no fusion between the pieces except by shear luck.I replace the lens with a #8 and that solved most of my problem.  A #8 is probably to light for extended stick work, specially if your outside in bright sunlight.  I do most of my work inside with a 175 MIG and rarely weld for long periods of time so its been fine for me.Several other things which have helped are marking the joint with a white paint pin, additional light (as you mentioned) and positioning myself so I am not getting light in from the back of the helmet reflecting off the lens.  The only other suggestion I have is to be sure and give your eyes sufficient time to adjust to change in light level.  This is more significant as you get older it takes longer for your eyes to adjust.  I am frequently ask what I am waiting for as I wait for my eyes to adjust after I nod  the helmet in place.
Reply:Rich59 - thanks for reply - really!I was feeling very alone - a welder whose welds don't stick together!Yes, your first sentence is exactly my problem - can't see to weld properly.Last night, I compared my auto-darkening helmet on lightest #9 setting with a conventional helmet fitted with a green #9 filter.  The auto-dark helmet is darker, more like a #10.  That's not light enough for me - can't see the line I want to weld along nor can I see the weld pool.  I'm going to pick up a few lighter shade filters - and use what works... as well as lighting up my welds.Thanks for the white line idea; I wonder if a soapstone marker would help?Bonus: I too noticed that light from behind my head could pass by my ears and reflect off the inside filter glass causing reduced visibility due to glare.ThanksRick V
Reply:If you are going to go back to using a non darkening hood, I second the suggestion about using the gold lens. Sure can make a big difference. Also try to keep the light from shinning in from the back side of your welding hood could make a huge difference.
Reply:This could be one of my issues, I am going to change to a #8 as well.Wish Me Luck,Bruce The Welding ChefLincoln Weld-Pack 3200 NORWELD StickStanford Hill Farm
Reply:I found some useful information on welding shades from the American Optometric Association.Here is the chart of different welding shades - from ANSI Z87.1Shade #...... Visible........... Far UV ..... InfraRedClear........... 100%1.5 ............. 61.5%........ 0.1%......... 25%1.7 ............. 50.1% ....... 0.1% ........ 20%2.0 ............. 37.3% ....... 0.1% ........ 15%2.5 ............. 22.8% ....... 0.1% ........ 12%3.0 ............. 13.9% ....... 0.07% ........ 9%4 ................. 5.18% ...... 0.04% ........ 5%5 ................. 1.93% ...... 0.02% ........ 2.5%6 ................. 0.72% ...... 0.01% ........ 1.5%7 ................. 0.27% .......0.007% ...... 1.3%8 ................. 0.100% ..... 0.004% ...... 1.0%9 ................. 0.037% ..... 0.002% ...... 0.8%10 ............... 0.0139% .... 0.001% ...... 0.6%11 ............... 0.0052% .... 0.0007% .... 0.5%12 ............... 0.0019% .... 0.0004% .... 0.5%13 ............... 0.0007% .... 0.0002% .... 0.4%14 ............... 0.0003% .... 0.0001% .... 0.3%And....Recommended Shade Numbers for Welding OperationsOperation                      Shade     Recommended ProtectorTorch soldering ............ 1.5-3 ............ Spectacles or welding faceplateTorch brazing ............ 3-4 ............ Welding goggles or faceshieldCutting ............ 3-6 ............ Welding goggles or faceshieldGas welding ............ 4-8 ............ Welding goggles or faceshieldGas tungsten arc welding ............ 8-10 ............ Welding helmet or shieldGas metal arc welding ............ 7-11 ............ Welding helmet or shieldFlux core arc welding ............ 7-11 ............ Welding helmet or shieldPlasma arc welding ............ 6-11 ............ Welding helmet or shieldElectric arc welding ............ 10-14 ............ Welding helmet or shieldAlthough recommended shade numbers prevent radiation-induced ocular injury (ANSI Z87.1-1989), Sliney and Wolbarsht (1980) have noted that filters with higher shade numbers may be needed to ensure visualcomfort throughout a full working day of exposure to a welding arc.What's is mean to me?  The second table says flux core arc welding = 7-11.  My auto-darkening helmet goes to a #9 shade - that is just to dark for me.I'm going to purchase a #7 filter for my manual helmet.  It is also possible to use a pair of $10 clear special UV safety glasses inside the helmet for way more extra UV protection than a conventional #9 shade.  End result with #7 shade and UV safety glasses = a lot more visible light getting through (7X) and a lot more UV protection.  Looks like a win/win!Just some thoughts.... of course variations are possible.Rick V
Reply:Thanks Rick V,That is a plan for U, I already wear specks, so I'm just gonna swap out my lens.Bruce The Welding ChefLincoln Weld-Pack 3200 NORWELD StickStanford Hill Farm
Reply:Bruce... the best laid plans...Well - it turns out that it is difficult to find or even order a #7 Shade!So, in the interests of the quality of my welds, retaining my vision and the soap-opera quality of this thread, I ordered a #6 and a #8.  Due in next week - so stand by for the report.  Who knows, maybe I just should have gone with a readily available #5 (gas welding) and worn sunglasses under my helmet!Anyway, it's all fun and should lead to a better place.Rick VRick V.
Reply:The #6 and the #8 filters arrived.I have two identical welding helmets, so I placed the #6 filter in one and the #8 in the other.  During this operation, I was comparing the light transmission of the helmets by looking at 75 watt light bulb about 1 foot away when I noticed that I had an interfering reflection inside the helmets; light from a skylight overhead was coming in through the open top of the helmets.  Fortunately, several months previously I had bought surplus a military (brown) head cover designed for welding – looked like an oversized Ninja hood… covered top of head and sides of neck – kind of like the hood on a winter parka.  I never wore it because it was so oversize for my head – but it fit over the helmet (not covering the filter) and did a good job shutting out the light from above and behind my head.For the comparative tests of conventional helmets fitted #6 and #8 filters, I set up to weld the same test pieces (re-ground with angle grinder) as before in exactly the same location.  I used the same welding rods and same amperages - 3/32 inch 6011 at 65-70 amps.  Oh yeah, I wore the Ninja hood since I have a bank of overhead fluorescent lights.The results were revealing….Firstly, the #6 filter:  At first, it was great; as suggested I let my eyes get used to the darker image but this took only a few seconds and I could see everything pretty good with just the room lights on – the Tee weld (filet) set up, the entire length of the rod, etc.  So, I struck the arc…  wow, arc flash – bright, eyes wince, repeat, repeat… ok got an arc and burned some rod.  Stopped, arc strike – eyes wince, ok, restart… I burned about 1/3 of the rod.  During the burn, I could see the weld pool but the adjacent light from the arc was very bright.  After removing the helmet, I felt my eyes were suffering.Conclusion 1: a #6 filter was not dark enough during welding; it was too hard on my eyes.Secondly, the #8 filter: At first, it was bad; even after waiting about 10 seconds for my eyes to adapt to the dark, I could only see the rod (sort of) but I couldn’t see the rod tip and I couldn’t see the joint line between the vertical and horizontal plates – the junction of the T weld.  Not knowing exactly where the rod tip was made striking the arc exasperating, I was all over the place.-  I had to stop, flip up the filter and reposition the rod tip, flip down and … strike the arc, arc-out or rod stuck, etc.  (Repeat this process a few times).  Wow, arc flash – bright, eyes wince, repeat, repeat, repeat … dark adaptation shot to ‘H’…Ok I got an arc and burned some rod.  Stopped, arc strike – eyes wince a mite (like a flash bulb going off), ok… I got a stable arc and burned about 1/3 of the rod.Good News:During the burn, I could see the weld pool and the adjacent light from the arc was not too bad.  Still, after removing the helmet, eyes felt a mite gritty – from those many arc flashes.  Conclusion 2: a #8 filter was light enough to see the weld pool and dark enough for good eye protection during welding.  Looking through the #8 filter, until the arc was struck I had little idea where the rod tip was relative to the weld – but that’s just the norm with a conventional welding helmet (you are supposed to hold your rod/weld position firm as you flip the helmet/filter down).Conclusion 3:  Comparing the performance of #6 and #8 filter helmets highlighted the main trouble with conventional welding helmets – handling the arc strike.  The idea is that you hold your rod-tip position relative to the weld, fix that in your memory, flip the helmet/filter down, wait a few seconds for dark adaptation (or just go for it), strike the arc and burn the rod – laying down weld metal.  For me, this happens about 1 in 10 tries!PROBLEMS:a) If I wait the time needed for my eyes to adapt to the dark filter, the rod tip tends to drift off position and my arc strike may not be where I wanted/expected.b) If the first arc strike does not result in a stable arc and the arc flares out, my dark adaptation is shot and I have moved the rod tip relative to the weld.  If I immediately try to re-strike with the helmet/filter down, I am about 1 to 2 inches from where I expected.  Try this a few times – and I am completely off the weld… very frustrating.c) The worst is when I strike and get a rod stuck.  By the time I twist the rod free, I have no idea where the rod tip is relative to the weld.  I pretty much have to start over – raise the helmet/filter, reposition the rod tip, flip down and try again.d) When I get a re-occurring combination of b) and c), my eyes are reeling from the constant – dark – eye pupils dilate, arc strike – eye pupils go small, arc goes out – where the ‘H’ is the rod tip now?  Try again – oops brief glimpse that my rod tip id off the weld area.  Try again – rats… rod stuck, twist free.  Stop, lift helmet – start all over… once my eyes get over their roller-coaster ride – mostly due to arc flashes observed through the helmet filter. What to do Next?AUTO-DARKENING HELMET - RETRYI decided to repeat everything I had just done with my auto-darkening helmet – even though this didn’t work so well before – that’s what started this whole filter-test program!  (My auto-darkening helmet darkens to a measured #10 – not the #9 indicated on the helmet.)   But, I thought, well maybe the oversized Ninja hood will make a difference…Would you believe…It Worked!With the Ninja Hood over the helmet, I could see the weld pool beside the arc (wish it was a shade brighter) – but I could see it!  I guess that previously, the light from my bank of overhead fluorescent lights was entering the top/back of the helmet and causing enough internal reflection to interfere with my ability to see the weld pool.As a bonus, the auto-darkening helmet did a nice job of eliminating the a) through d) problems of arc-flash I experienced with the conventional helmet.By the way, my freshly made T welds were no better than before.  I just can’t seem to lay down a straight-line bead that fuses to both sides of a filet weld; I guess I am going to have to practice - circles, figures 8’s or various weaving motions to be certain that I fuse weld metal both to the vertical and to the horizontal plate.  But at least, I feel I have progressed a few steps closer to a solution.That’s all she wrote.Rick V
Reply:There is no need to wait for your eyes to adjust to the dark of a standard lens.  In fact, you don't want them to anyway, even if they could.  The whole purpose of putting the lens in front of your face is so that everything is dark.  When your eyes adjust to darkness, it's because the pupils dilate, letting in more light (visible and UV).  You're working backwards as far as protection by waiting.You want to set up your weld and position your body to be ready for the weld, then close the hood (with either your free hand or just nodding your head if adjusted right) and then immediately strike the arc as soon as the hood is down.
Reply:Rick V, I worry that you are being too cavalier about the degree of protection you should be providing for your eyes.  It is a very bad idea to go to a much lighter shade than recommended for the process you are using.  Your vision is just too high a price to pay.Are your eyes capable of focussing on the puddle under the light conditions of welding?  I am near-sighted and have lost distance accomodation with age and use fairly strong lenses for everything I do through the day except for fine, close work.  I discovered that I can see the puddle best without any glasses at all.  I had been using glasses made for the distance at which I thought I was welding, but found that no glasses works best for me.  It allows me to get fairly close to the puddle and I use the highest density on my auto-darkening helmet.  Works for me.You refer only to Tee welds, which is not the easiest type of joint to start with due to different heat sinking in the horizontal and vertical work pieces.  Do you have much practice on flat, horizontal welds so you know what to look for in fusion of the puddle with the work on both sides of the bead?  It sounds like you may be focussing on the arc instead of the puddle.awrightWell!  I just looked at your profile and now I'm intimidated about making recommendations.  But perhaps discussion with an optometrist of your issues with seeing the puddle would be fruitful.  Do you wear glasses or have distance accommodation issues?  Perhaps some glasses with prescriptions allowing you to get closer to the work would help you, as it helped me.  But be sure to use a sufficiently dense filter.  You shouldn't have any eye discomfort after welding if your filter is correct.Last edited by awright; 06-11-2006 at 03:29 AM.
Reply:Thanks for the suggestions/pointers.MAC702RE: There is no need to wait for your eyes to adjust to the dark of a standard lens. In fact, you don't want them to anyway, even if they could. The whole purpose of putting the lens in front of your face is so that everything is dark. When your eyes adjust to darkness, it's because the pupils dilate, letting in more light (visible and UV). You're working backwards as far as protection by waiting.Well I was following the advice of Rich59 (#12) – “The only other suggestion I have is to be sure and give your eyes sufficient time to adjust to change in light level. This is more significant as you get older it takes longer for your eyes to adjust. I am frequently ask what I am waiting for as I wait for my eyes to adjust after I nod the helmet in place.”But as you say Mac, there wasn’t much point in waiting – since an arc flash followed by darkness ruins any eye adaptation I may have been waiting for.RE:  You want to set up your weld and position your body to be ready for the weld, then close the hood (with either your free hand or just nodding your head if adjusted right) and then immediately strike the arc as soon as the hood is down.The arc strike… stuck!  I was having a particularly hard time with 3/32 Lincoln 7018AC rod at 85 amps (max output of my 117VAC welder); the first arc strike with a new rod was 90% guaranteed to stick to my work.Solution:  I found that if I lightly/quickly scratch/drag the rod tip a couple of times across about 6 inches of sheet steel (grounded), that caused a trail of sparks/arc and the tip of the rod to glow red.  Moving then to the metal to be welded, I could strike an arc quite easily – without the rod getting stuck.  This seems to work 90% of the time.AwrightRE: Are your eyes capable of focussing on the puddle under the light conditions of welding?Yes, I wear mild correction for distance vision only.  Being 59 years old, I cannot read fine print on vitamin bottles or the like – my eyes start to lose focus at a distance of less than 12 inches.  During welding, my eyes are usually a distance of 18 to 24 inches away from the weld.  Is this too far?RE: You refer only to Tee welds, which is not the easiest type of joint to start with due to different heat sinking in the horizontal and vertical work pieces. T welds are the ones I need to perform in most situations - like to remove stubborn bolts.  So, I am practicing – working with 1/4 inch thick test plates.However, what I am observing is that if I aim my rod for a 45 degree division between the vertical and horizontal surfaces, I end up welding more to the vertical member than to the horizontal.RE: Do you have much practice on flat, horizontal welds so you know what to look for in fusion of the puddle with the work on both sides of the bead? It sounds like you may be focussing on the arc instead of the puddle.No.I have rarely done lap joints on sheet metal.  I usually plug weld sheet metal (20-24 gauge), stitch it (series of spot welds) or simply braze it – anything else risks blowing holes in it.In the 1/8 inch thickness range, I usually have the luxury to V point both ends of the horizontal plates to set up for a double vee butt weld.  E.g. I did this to extend a lawnmower blade by ~3/4 inch at either end.  I then filled in the V’s.  That worked well – used 0.030 flux core wire and a different welder for that.When it comes to 1/4 inch thick steel, a lap joint begins to resemble a small T weld – and I have the same problems as with the T welds.Rick
Reply:Wow, Rick V, 18 to 24 inches would be a real reach for me!  I don't think I could do any welding at that distance.  I haven't measured it, but would guess that I work at about 14 inches from the arc in order to see the weld puddle.  What distance do you others work at?  I wouldn't be surprised to find that I work closer than most due to my nearsightedness, but it would be interesting to hear from others about their working distance.  Vision has always been my main limitation in welding as I struggled with various special "welding glasses" prescriptions and finally settled on none.  Obviously, I am not suggesting that no glasses is the solution for others because each person's eyes are different.  But I am suggesting that getting the correct optical prescription that will allow you to work at the optimum distance for visibility is important.If your eyes, "...start to lose focus at about 12 inches...," that may indicate that your really comfortable, relaxed focal distance is significantly more than 12 inches ... like 18 to 24 inches.  Only you can say whether that is too far, but I suspect you could see the puddle much better from an eye position closer to the work.  Don't forget that the image size on the retina is inversely proportional to the distance from the work.  But don't mess with low density filters as you move in on the work.Do I understand correctly that you have not perfected achieving good fusion and penetration on flat, butt joints?  I think that is the "walking" that is necessary before you can "run" with TEE joints, in which you complicate things with gravity and differential heat sinking of the two work pieces, or lap joints with similar issues.  I suspect you may have skipped the beginner's practice and gone directly to the more difficult work that you, "have to do," thereby making it difficult for yourself.I'm not surprised at your last sentance, since the lap joint also has differential heat sinking of the two pieces that leads to the requirement for more skill than plain butt joints.  I'd recommend practice with flat, butt joints using similar size coupons on each side of the joint to perfect your basic technique, then move on to more difficult configurations.awrightLast edited by awright; 06-13-2006 at 02:40 AM.
Reply:Hi Rick!1: Get your head in closer to the weld, and if you're travelling from left to right or whatever direction for that matter, then position your line of sight ahead of the direction of travel!!!2: If you still have problems after the first suggestion,then you might want to get a set of what older welders call "cheaters" which are nothing more than magnifying clear lenses of different diopters (eg: 1.50, 1.75, 2.00, 2.25) depending on the individual's preference, and make sure like the othe gents suggested - that you have the proper filter lens # for the job because, you only have one pair of eye's so, do'nt try experimenting especially at your age!!!3: Observe for yourself if possible that you are positioning your electrode closer to the joint seam, and at the proper work angle of 45 degrees...Also observe your travel angle to make sure it's at least 5 to 10 degerees but less than 45 degrees ahead of the puddle towards your direction of travel4: As was previously suggested, try a slight "whip and pause" technique with E-6011 if thats what you're going to use... I would personally use an E-7018 for better results but remember that with E-7018 AC, your arc length (the distance between the end of your electrode and the puddle) must be shorter, closer or tighter to the puddle because E-7018 electrodes do not produce as much if any shielding gas as the flux burns and turns into slag from the heat of the arc... Also with E-7018, make sure that your puddle of weld is always ahead of the slag pool while welding in order to get proper fusion throughout the face of the weld, and on both toes of the weld It always come down to the fundamentals!!! If you're not focusing on them, then you're bound to run into problems and I know it sound like I'm lecturing you but, that's not my intent here...  I'm just trying to get you back on the right track   So let us know how you made out!!! P.S. I personally like those gold filter lens too and I also on occasion ( If I'm welding alot of parts repeatedly or alot intermittent welds on a joint) use an auto-darkening lens also.Respectfully,SSBN727Last edited by SSBN727; 06-13-2006 at 03:22 AM."Run Silent...  Run Deep!!!
Reply:Awright and SSBN727 - thanks for the advice; you both suggested that I get my head on closer than the 18 to 24 inches so that I can see the weld pool - use "cheaters" (close up lenses) if necessary.  You also stressed a return to the fundamentals.OK, first thing I did was look at the fundamentals on several web sites, Lincoln, Miller, ESAB, etc.  By far the most useful thing I found was a series of color photos (see attached) from the Miller site at url http://www.millerwelds.com/education...ps/stick_tips/The color photo series shows welds: Good, Travel too fast/slow, Arc too short/long and Amps too high/low.  Well, yes, I have achieved several of those photos - a combo of arc too long, travel too fast and current too low!Folks, I used pair of close up reading glasses under my helmet (auto dark).  With those reading glasses, I can only see in focus at an eye-object distance of between 9 and 11 inches - so that forced me to 'get in close' to the weld.  I used the same re-ground 1/4 inch 2 x 2 inch test pieces as before and 3/32 inch, Lincoln 7018AC at the max output of my 117 VAC welder - 85 amps AC.  I did 2 T welds as before but being in close, using a short arc and going slow - Big Difference!  The welds actually looked Good!  I ran a single stringer (no weave) right tight in the joint the whole length of the weld with good looking fusion to both the vertical and horizontal.  When I hammered the pieces apart, each test piece had only 1 area of limited fusion (max 12% of the length of the weld) to the horizontal plate.  Note: This is great!  Before I was lucky to get at total of 12% fusion in small spots over the whole length of the weld!  Now I am getting 88% fusion - for me that is a major advance.For all those who helped me with their suggestions - thanks... you made me a better welder! (Not great - but better.)Rick V. Attached ImagesHi Rick!Happy to help but remember one thing, It was you who listened and kept an open mind enough to make the appropriate adjustments that were necessary to improve your welds!!! Now it's all up to you to continue to PRACTICE, PRACTICE and Practice some more!!! May your welds come out as smooth as a baby's backsides!!! Good luck!Respectfully,SSBN727"Run Silent...  Run Deep!!!
Reply:Getting back to your original problem of the stuck bolts, try letting penetrant soak in overnight, then maybe a little heat on the part, not the bolt (heated metal expands).  Welding to a stuck bolt will sometimes cause, almost like an arc strike between the threads, causing the bolt to be even harder to extract.  Slamming the head with a hammer will also sometimes loosen the rust up just enough to be able to get it to crack loose.  Use safety glasses if you do this, penetrant in the eye is no fun.  If the head is already chewed up, sometimes a pipe wrench and hammer will do the trick.  One of my favorite tricks, if you don't have a can of penetrant, pull your engine oil dip stick to get the one drop of oil you need.Knuckle busting wrencher.Millermatic 185Miller econo tigLincoln dc600 (shoulda kept the bullet)87 Buick Grand National, built and mega fast95 Honda Accord, better on gas than the Buick84 Honda Nighthawk, sitting...
Reply:Better late than never I guess....My name's not Jim....
Reply:Gentlemen and Gentleladies,  this is my first post after years of lurking.  I found out if you can't see you can't weld and the electronic eye zappers drive me crazy.  But this summer I found accustrike.com and a youtube of the helmet in action.  I have not spent a better 120.00.  I use a cheater, which they installed.  Their website has more electronic converts and excellent comments section.  I called the owner/inventer in Nebraska and enjoyed our chat and had my helmet in no time.  But I am still the slagmaster.  BTW if this item was mentioned earlier in the post, I got tied and couldn't read 'em all so sorry about that.
Reply:Nice helmet slagmaster, I didn't think it would work that fast?  Bruce The Welding ChefLincoln Weld-Pack 3200 NORWELD StickStanford Hill Farm