Redesiging a welding gun, comments wanted.

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Hi,I'm currently taking Industrial Design in University. One of our major projects this year is to design a hand tool. I'm just at the research stage right now. I was interested in the welding trade. From what I've read, there seems to be a lot of injuries and strains for repetitive motion, awkward angles etc. A lot of the welding guns seem to look and feel the same for my limited use. Since everyone hear has far more use and experience, I got some questions.Are the current welding guns ( mig, tig, stick, even plasma cutters) ideal for you usage? Are they comfortable, can be used at awkward angles, able to hold for long periods of time? Would there be any changes you would make to a current welding gun in terms of comfort, durability, performance? ( even little things you would change, ex: where the trigger is, what angle the gun is at, shape of the handle etc.)Any comments or opinions would be great! Like I said, this is just some preliminary research to see if it is worth exploring more. If there is a need for improvement, it would make an interesting project. Thanks!
Reply:Hate to tell ya this, but as far as I am aware, the manufacturers of welding equipment do a pretty good job designing guns, torches......., but that is my opinion, seems when your in a peticular field you would want to offer products that are the most comfortable and easy to use to stay competitive.Miller Dynasty 300dxSpeedglas 9002XMiller Spectrum 375 XtremeLincoln PowerMig 255xtLincoln PowerMig 140cMilwuakee Portaband
Reply:Originally Posted by FarwarHi,I'm currently taking Industrial Design in University. One of our major projects this year is to design a hand tool. I'm just at the research stage right now. I was interested in the welding trade. From what I've read, there seems to be a lot of injuries and strains for repetitive motion, awkward angles etc. A lot of the welding guns seem to look and feel the same for my limited use. Since everyone hear has far more use and experience, I got some questions.Are the current welding guns ( mig, tig, stick, even plasma cutters) ideal for you usage? Are they comfortable, can be used at awkward angles, able to hold for long periods of time? Would there be any changes you would make to a current welding gun in terms of comfort, durability, performance? ( even little things you would change, ex: where the trigger is, what angle the gun is at, shape of the handle etc.)Any comments or opinions would be great! Like I said, this is just some preliminary research to see if it is worth exploring more. If there is a need for improvement, it would make an interesting project. Thanks!
Reply:Originally Posted by RojodiabloMig guns could use adjustable angles, and/ or a movable grip location to change angle or hold position. As for what would make them better, just some adjustability would be fanfriggin' tastic. It gets old when you mig for a few hours and realize if the gun could be like "THIS" then you would have been better off. What "THIS" is; it's almost impossible to say. Some days I wish I was choked up on the nozzle more, so I could get more close control. Some days, I wish the angle was steeper, closer to 90 degrees. Some days, I wish the gun nozzle was straighter. Every job seems to be a bit different.
Reply:The Bernard QGun with rotatable neck and curved handle is about as comfortable a mig gun as I have used, other than the weight.   I don't think there's much anyone can really do to 'revolutionize' the mig gun world.One thing I would like to see is a tig torch hand amptrol in a pull trigger style, like a mig gun.   The rotating and sliding hand controls are not natural for the hand to operate.  As much as I tried to use my sliding switch, I couldn't make my hand operate it and not shake the torch at the same time.  I think a pull trigger operated with the index finger would be great.  Something like the trigger speed control on a remote control car controller.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Originally Posted by DesertRider33The Bernard QGun with rotatable neck and curved handle is about as comfortable a mig gun as I have used, other than the weight.   I don't think there's much anyone can really do to 'revolutionize' the mig gun world.One thing I would like to see is a tig torch hand amptrol in a pull trigger style, like a mig gun.   The rotating and sliding hand controls are not natural for the hand to operate.  As much as I tried to use my sliding switch, I couldn't make my hand operate it and not shake the torch at the same time.  I think a pull trigger operated with the index finger would be great.  Something like the trigger speed control on a remote control car controller.
Reply:An LED light that could take the heat mouted in a Flux core gun would be AWESOME!Vantage 500's LN-25's, VI-400's, cobramatics, Miller migs, synch 350 LX, Powcon inverters, XMT's, 250 Ton Acurrpress 12' brake, 1/4" 10' Atlantic shear,Koikie plasma table W/ esab plasmas. marvel & hyd-mech saws, pirrana & metal muncher punches.
Reply:I'm certainly not a pro, but here are a few thoughts (with no consideration given to cost or complexity required to implement):-Internal gas solenoid-push-pull type feed-As much adjustment of length and angle of gun as possible: maybe a "gooseneck"-Non-stick tip (perhaps coat the outside of the tip with a ceramic material)-Automatic adjustment of wire stickout every time welding is stopped (Gun adjusts for X mm of stickout.  It will wind wire backwards if the stickout is too long and will dispense more wire if necessary.)  This way if you burn through, the feed stops and you can start right back where you were.-Clear mig nozzle for better visibility (Synthetic diamond?)-Built-in sensing of wire feed rate in gun to cause shutdown in the case of stuck wire or "bird's nest"-Built in gas backpressure sensing to detect clogs and disable welder unitl repaired-kelvin contact sensing of restance from gun to wire to disable welder if tip is bad-Easy to interpret display for use describing problems and their resolution (Think about how a copier tells you what door to open to remove a paper jam.)  This would be on the welder, not the gun, but it's related/-Wire/hose from gun to have as tight a bend radius as possible and as low a bending moment as possible-Wire/hose from gun as resistant to heat, abrasion and crushing as possible-Removable hand grip and switch to allow profile of gun to become as small as possibleLast edited by cnywelder; 09-17-2009 at 01:06 AM.------------------------------Lincoln 175HDLincoln AC/DC225Smith O/A
Reply:Originally Posted by RojodiabloThat would kick major butt. Some kind of rheostat finger pedal, rather than a slide dial or rolling dial. The first contact with the trigger could set the HF, and gas, and as you squeezed more, the power could go up/ or down.
Reply:Damn, I was going to suggest a flex neck...My name's not Jim....
Reply:How about an aftermarket flex neck that could fit popular guns like the ones that come with miller or lincoln welders.  If I could keep my gun and just swap the neck, that would be great.My name's not Jim....
Reply:Just as a TIG torch benefits from the screen and diffuser of a gas lens, for slower, better gas coverage--a MIG gun could as well.     (In fact, I've mentioned this to CK engineering.)I'm surprised that the MIG gun community has not pursued this.Blackbird
Reply:Originally Posted by dave powelsonJust as a TIG torch benefits from the screen and diffuser of a gas lens, for slower, better gas coverage--a MIG gun could as well.     (In fact, I've mentioned this to CK engineering.)I'm surprised that the MIG gun community has not pursued this.
Reply:Originally Posted by BoostinjdmThat would seem pretty simple to me.  Just a screen with the same OD as the ID of the nozzle, and a hole in the middle just big enough to fit snugly over the tip.  Sell 'em in packs of 100pcs for cheap.  Pull nozzle off, slide screen over tip, replace nozzle.Don't know if it would work, but it seems simple enough.
Reply:Originally Posted by partagasSounds like it would.  But what about all the splatter that ends up in the cup?  That alone could cause you have to change it out every hour or so.  So now time and expense of changing out the screen could make it not worth it.  With TIG their is no splatter.
Reply:Originally Posted by partagasSounds like it would.  But what about all the splatter that ends up in the cup?  That alone could cause you have to change it out every hour or so.  So now time and expense of changing out the screen could make it not worth it.  With TIG their is no splatter.
Reply:I'd love a MIG trigger that doesn't shoot out an inch of (extra, useless, needs to be trimmed now) wire every time I set it down wrong or bump it.  And of course I'll jump on the wagon for the flexi-neck.  If you could engineer in a kind of whistle effect for audio feedback that gas is coming out, you'd save welders from the occasional moment of 'what the heck is wrong and why do I have porosity?' before they realize they didn't turn the gas on or the line isn't seated right.And on the kind of crazy front: what about a non-conductive non-weldable extension that would let me maintain a set tip distance from the steel, sort of like the depth-controlling piece on my hammer drill?Last edited by Jack Olsen; 09-17-2009 at 05:58 PM.Jack OlsenMy garage website
Reply:Plasma guns are to short. After using a victor O/A torch for several years, I have become comfortable with the barrel and head being long,which enables me to keep a steady hand. Our plasma torch has a short handle which makes it hard to use two hands to keep it steady, the second thing is the head has an angle instead of being at a 90° angle.
Reply:If you want hand-operated devices with refined ergonomics, study pistols and revolvers, along with modern rifle pistol grips. Highly ergonomic replacement hand grips are available inexpensively should you wish to get a few to test. A trigger guard on a MIG gun would be useful, and a trigger is much more natural than the usual push button. Firearms have literally hundreds of years of ergonomic development driven by necessity. Their designs don't necessarily all lend themselves to tools, but to anyone studying ergonomics they deserve exploration. Man's handheld weapons are the ultimate expression of ergonomic design because function drives form.
Reply:Trouble with a trigger gaurd on a mig gun is it would be hard to use with thick gloves.  The heat/spatter shields used on heavy duty fluxcore guns help keep the trigger from being accidentally pushed when the gun is set down.  Shouldn't be hard to adapt one of those to a mig gun.Bernard does have a sort-of gas lense device in their Centerfire gas nozzles.  It's not a screen, but the small holes in the brass ring inside the nozzle are kinda similar idea.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:A nozzle and a contactor with a spatter resistant force field on it.Vantage 500's LN-25's, VI-400's, cobramatics, Miller migs, synch 350 LX, Powcon inverters, XMT's, 250 Ton Acurrpress 12' brake, 1/4" 10' Atlantic shear,Koikie plasma table W/ esab plasmas. marvel & hyd-mech saws, pirrana & metal muncher punches.
Reply:Maybe controls on the MIG gun to change the wire speed and voltage without having to go back to the unit.
Reply:The ability to replace not only the wire liner but the copper cable, gas hose, and trigger wires would be nice. I like the remote wire speed changer idea too.
Reply:Some really interesting ideas here. Thanks for all the comments so far.
Reply:Originally Posted by DesertRider33 One thing I would like to see is a tig torch hand amptrol in a pull trigger style, like a mig gun.   The rotating and sliding hand controls are not natural for the hand to operate.  As much as I tried to use my sliding switch, I couldn't make my hand operate it and not shake the torch at the same time.  I think a pull trigger operated with the index finger would be great.  Something like the trigger speed control on a remote control car controller.Well something that I have always wanted is a 2lbs. spool like a 2lbs gun but with a 6 foot or so whip and 50' of leads for portability. I have looked at making my own and have all I need to do it but have yet to do it. would be nice for a shop that does alot of hard to reach areas and has a big 220 welder that is a pain to move around the shop.
Reply:Originally Posted by kneedeepWell something that I have always wanted is a 2lbs. spool like a 2lbs gun but with a 6 foot or so whip and 50' of leads for portability. I have looked at making my own and have all I need to do it but have yet to do it. would be nice for a shop that does alot of hard to reach areas and has a big 220 welder that is a pain to move around the shop.
Reply:A little off the subject but....on My wish list for new technology...a remote smaw stinger...no more dragging 200' of 00! Microwaves?
Reply:Originally Posted by DesertRider33Miller already makes that.  Spoolmatic 15A or 30A spool gun takes 2 lb spools and they sell extension leads for it up to 50 feet long.  The extension cable set is not cheap.
Reply:Hmmm... You mean like a push-pull feeder and torch?I would like to see Miller make a push-pull feeder in a Suitcase plastic case.   Would be better for field work than the heavy bulky steel case XR feeder I have.   If they made a Suitcase 8XR, I'd put my Python gun on it and keep it on the truck instead of the Spoolmatic.   I prefer push-pull with a goosenck torch over spoolgunning.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Originally Posted by rode2rouenI'll add my voice to this chorus! The trigger idea would be a great design to work on!Rex
Reply:Originally Posted by DesertRider33Hmmm... You mean like a push-pull feeder and torch?I would like to see Miller make a push-pull feeder in a Suitcase plastic case.   Would be better for field work than the heavy bulky steel case XR feeder I have.   If they made a Suitcase 8XR, I'd put my Python gun on it and keep it on the truck instead of the Spoolmatic.   I prefer push-pull with a goosenck torch over spoolgunning.
Reply:Originally Posted by DualieYou mean like this one that lincoln makes?  http://www.mylincolnelectric.com/Cat...t.aspx?p=61753
Reply:Originally Posted by DualieYou mean like this one that lincoln makes?  http://www.mylincolnelectric.com/Cat...t.aspx?p=61753
Reply:Originally Posted by cajun welderPlasma guns are to short. After using a victor O/A torch for several years, I have become comfortable with the barrel and head being long,which enables me to keep a steady hand. Our plasma torch has a short handle which makes it hard to use two hands to keep it steady, the second thing is the head has an angle instead of being at a 90° angle.