Arc wander in TIG

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Long question, sorry. I'm new to this site but have been welding since I was 21 and now I'm 50, I've welded underwater of the coasts of Scotland and Florida ( was then a commercial Diver) and on land have welded anything from castiron to AL and even lead, trained in ARC,MIG TIG and oxy/acet and cut with arcair,broco and gas.. Some years back I spent months TIG welding Aluminium street lights for the road systems of UK, Europe and the USA, using a 3 phase Kempi.So how could I be having welding trouble?Recently I decided that my own BUTTERS mig wasn't versatile enough (been doing up an old ford van) so I bought a 240V TIG with up/down slope,frequqncy, etc etc,Now heres my problem, I cant get on with the new TIG doing mild steel on DC ,sounds stupid I know after all the welding I have done in my life , in verry hard enviroments, but the arc wont keep in the root of the joint and it seems like the electrode keeps balling too easily. I never once in all my years of TIGing have had so much trouble as with this. I'm sure it's not the machine as it has been well made and not slung together in the far East.Am I grinding the wrong angle on the electrode or not using the frequency setting right or something, the arc looks like it is jumping about accross the work piece as if it's lightening . It just shows that no matter how much you know you never know it all, and this is most likely a problem that even a greenhorn would be able to solve.Help please guys.
Reply:We need more information...Which machine are you using?  What settings?  Tungsten size and type? Arc length? Material size?  Joint type and prep?Shouldn't have a frequency adjustment in DC, unless you're talking about HF, then all it's used for is the start, not continuously on.You have the torch is connected to the negative output terminal, right?MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Hello 3lions, your mention of balling of the tungsten does sound a bit like a polarity issue. Also the wildness of the arc seems to support this a bit more. If you haven't worked with some of the newer inverter machines this could probably happen quite easily. I might first suggest going over the instruction manual for the machine very carefully and taking note of how they specify connection of the leads and such. I know that some of the inverters use the current selector switch to change the polarity. In this case there is a slim possibility that if you have the torch connected to the - plug and the ground to the + , you might actually be operating the machine on reverse polarity if the machine is internally switching to accommodate polarity changes. Sorry if this sounds a bit weird. To check this use your volt meter/multi-meter and attach it to the leads to determine polarity. Just a little something to consider without knowing of the model and other details of your machine. Best regards, Allan  Originally Posted by 3 LIONSLong question, sorry. I'm new to this site but have been welding since I was 21 and now I'm 50, I've welded underwater of the coasts of Scotland and Florida ( was then a commercial Diver) and on land have welded anything from castiron to AL and even lead, trained in ARC,MIG TIG and oxy/acet and cut with arcair,broco and gas.. Some years back I spent months TIG welding Aluminium street lights for the road systems of UK, Europe and the USA, using a 3 phase Kempi.So how could I be having welding trouble?Recently I decided that my own BUTTERS mig wasn't versatile enough (been doing up an old ford van) so I bought a 240V TIG with up/down slope,frequqncy, etc etc,Now heres my problem, I cant get on with the new TIG doing mild steel on DC ,sounds stupid I know after all the welding I have done in my life , in verry hard enviroments, but the arc wont keep in the root of the joint and it seems like the electrode keeps balling too easily. I never once in all my years of TIGing have had so much trouble as with this. I'm sure it's not the machine as it has been well made and not slung together in the far East.Am I grinding the wrong angle on the electrode or not using the frequency setting right or something, the arc looks like it is jumping about accross the work piece as if it's lightening . It just shows that no matter how much you know you never know it all, and this is most likely a problem that even a greenhorn would be able to solve.Help please guys.
Reply:Lions,DC neg ?Tungsten clean ?How are you sharpening the tungsten ? In what direct is the grind or sanding marks running ?Good ground ? If the table serves as the ground plain, try running a short jumper from the ground clamp direct to the work piece.Try a different piece of metal.Miller Syncrowave 200
Reply:Inverter welders don't like green (pure) tungsten, which may cause this problem.9-11-2001......We Will Never ForgetRetired desk jockey. Hobby weldor with a little training. Craftsman O/A---Flat, Vert, Ovhd, Horz. Miller Syncrowave 250
Reply:Wow what a lot of info, thanks for all the help guys.The machine is a TIG 161 AC/DC 240V (I'm ENGLISH) made by R-TECH and has. Base current,Pulse Current,Puls Freq adjust,Up slope,Pulse width,Down slope,2/4 way selector and it will stick welding as well. I may have got myself something a bit too technical for my Dinosaur like attitude to modern tech but I will look closer at the angle I'm putting on the tungsten and sharpen it inline with the electrode, also I didn't know I had to connect the torch to the neg term to get DC neg but we did use that method stick welding underwater, this is the first time I have done a lot of mild steel using TIG as most of my TIG experience was with AL .Thanks all.
Reply:I would like to see the post of  your results once you implement all this good advice.
Reply:My best advice is turn off the all the pulse and slope features and just do regular dc negative tig with it.  Set the current to one amp per one thousandth inch of base metal thickness and weld.   Some of those slope programs you have to tap the remote to start the arc starter then tap it to get to main current, then tap it to start the down slope, then tap it to stop the arc and start the post flow.  All that tapping can be very confusing.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:i once hooked up my inverter(ta 185) with the torch + . i went to weld ms and the torch  looked like it was an oa cutting tip..blew the cup, melted the tungsten. just another way to tell if its hooked up  positive..
Reply:Well it looks like Allan (aevald) and DesertRider33 hit the nail on the head.After all these years of welding I had made a rookies mistake and connected the torch to the +VE output.I must sound like a right DICK, why I did it that way God knows. So I tried the TIG machine today on some exhaust pipe and now it's laying down nice even beads of weld with no wander at all , I even played about with the freq and pulse settings and was well pleased.Thanks lads.Last edited by 3 LIONS; 10-06-2009 at 10:13 AM.
Reply:Hello 3lions, glad to hear that you got it figured out. Sounds like a nice little machine, should give you plenty to play with and the capabilities to do a lot of great work. Best regards, Allanaevald
Reply:Any time the tungsten balls...that's either the wrong tungsten or wrong polarity in DC.Glad you got it straightened out.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:I didn't have an answer to your question, but I do want to commend you on asking it in the first place, given all your experience. That's what I like about this forum, everyone is eager to help, and nobody acts like they are god's gift to welding. I'm on a couple other forums, and if you ask a question, you're instantly ridiculed by some internet tough guy.
Reply:Well I say when you stop listening you stop learning. No one can possibly say they know everything there is to know about welding, we are learning all the time.When you think I have droped off the back of a dive barge into zero visability water to cut or weld pipe but can not seem to connect the leads to a TIG machine the right way, ha ha ha. It's a bit like a  mechanic changes someones oil but forgets to put the drain plug back in, we would all laugh but I've seen this happen. Take care guys.
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