Y connection to mix gases

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Hello,I have read at a few places that the benefit of argon/helium is well worth it.  Generally the only benefit I understand is that it enables greater heat or penetration.  I was looking into solutions for the 50/50 mix and they seem a little less than appealing.  The bottle mixed isn't too bad, and the machines that seem to do this are criminally priced.  What do you guys think about connecting a bottle of argon and a bottle of helium to a Y connector and then to a solenoid.  Crack open the bottles and set them each at 7.5  and in general you should get 15.  This idea doesn't sound too radical to be completely new to the world.  Has anyone else tried this?  Is this a good idea?Miller 330 a/bp water cooledI believe in gun control, I hold my gun with two hands.  If you want to know why, click here.Buy American or bye America.
Reply:I think you are making things complicated again...My name's not Jim....
Reply:We really need to hear from Sundown about this...MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:We keep a bottle of argon and a bottle of helium on both our machines at work, and do exactly what you described, run both through a "Y". I doubt this is the preferred method, but we've been doing it this way for 15 years, and it seems to work fine. It doesn't take much helium in the mix to make a big difference in the heat applied to the weld (I assume you're talking aluminum, never tried it on steel or stainless). I can tell when one of my guys has the helium turned up, as the AC squarewave hum gets a lot louder, especially welding into a closed corner.Miller Thunderbolt AC/DC (Sold)Miller Dialarc 250HFMiller MM251Miller MM200 (Sold)Miller MM130Miller Spot WelderVictor O/A rigMiller Spoolmatic 1 (Sold)
Reply:Originally Posted by 7A749I just think stuff like that should be done correctly, with the correct equipment. JMHO, of course.If it wasn't, Smith & other manufacturers of VERY expensive specialized gas mixers would be out of business.... I think they're doing A OK.Just use your machine & learn how to properly use it.
Reply:I haven't done any physical welding yet, but I have run a bunch of fake beads, practicing striking an arc, messing with various ways of grinding a tungsten, testing tungstens, holding the torch at a steady and constant distance from the metal and surely other things.  I feel like I have learned a lot, especially with the help of a bunch of dudes here.One website that I have read over several times is weldingtipsandtricks.com.  The author of that site says on several occasions that using a argon/helium mix is very worth it.  He briefly explains that it creates a more stable arc, and a cleaner weld.  He also explains that it also enables you to potentially use a smaller tungsten in some circumstances where a larger tungsten would be required.  I haven't experienced this first hand but I would certainly like to, but in order to do this I either have to get a fairly exspensive mixed bottle, buy an -extremely- expensive mixer, or create my own solution that may or may not work.  It sounds like it works for some people, I haven't been able to justify a logic in my mind as to why it wouldn't.  I also suspect that the mixers that I have looked at aren't used for post mixing but pre mixing.  In other words, they are generally sold to companies that bottle argon and other gases but need a device that will enable them to mix the gas before putting it into another bottle, I could be wrong but it doesn't sound like anyone else really understands the logic behind those 1000 dollar mixers.  This sounds especially true when you consider that adding a Y connection will probably work very similarly and that is some very high number of times cheaper.For now, personally, I probably won't need to use any helium in my welds, and there is wisdom is suggesting that I should get a great understanding of the basics before changing things up greatly by adding in helium to the mix.  But I always look to the future, I need to plan and percieve possibility as would anyone.  I know that I probably won't be putting out my TIG's full 450 amp output, but I buy clamps, consumables and all that just in case the situation arises.As far as who I am, I have a strong urge to survive, and part of that urge creates the need to prepare.  I like to have two of everything, so that way when the one I am using breaks, I can use the back up while I get the replacement, or maybe I'll have a friend that will need one of this or that, who knows.  Why did I get the 500 amp welding clamp?  Why do I take most things in my life to over board measures?  Maybe I am trying to compensate for something lacking?  Maybe I am just a freak.  I read that helium and argon mix is a great welding gas, it helps keep the area saturated with gas.Miller 330 a/bp water cooledI believe in gun control, I hold my gun with two hands.  If you want to know why, click here.Buy American or bye America.
Reply:There is only two reasons to mix gas yourself.  One would be that you need to try varying mixes for very important procedures.  More of this, less of that.  The second is that you use a hell of a lot of gas, like in production settings.  Only the second provides a cost savings.  The first requires you to have two bottles, and I'm sure, at least in the short run, is not going to be cheaper than just getting one mixed bottle.  If you want to try mixed gas, just trade in your bottle for a mixed one next time you go for a fill.  If you don't like it, trade back.  I'm sure there are benefits to mixed gas for TIG, but for the hobbyist, or even most shops, straight argon is just fine.My name's not Jim....
Reply:Originally Posted by BoostinjdmThere is only two reasons to mix gas yourself.  One would be that you need to try varying mixes for very important procedures.  More of this, less of that.  The second is that you use a hell of a lot of gas, like in production settings.  Only the second provides a cost savings.  The first requires you to have two bottles, and I'm sure, at least in the short run, is not going to be cheaper than just getting one mixed bottle.  If you want to try mixed gas, just trade in your bottle for a mixed one next time you go for a fill.  If you don't like it, trade back.  I'm sure there are benefits to mixed gas for TIG, but for the hobbyist, or even most shops, straight argon is just fine.
Reply:Originally Posted by razerPerhaps you could give a concrete reason why using a Y adapter is not "correct".Why do you have such a bias?It would seem that Smith is in business selling VERY expensive gases because people such as you buy the expensive gases rather than mixing them yourself.I can certainly see buying mixed if you want to, but I do not see what is universally "correct" about this approach.
Reply:Originally Posted by pinjasI agree entirely with what you said.  I was considering doing that for the first run when the time comes.  Something I like to think of, if I use two cans, one of helium and one of argon and mix them half and half, the bottle of argon is going to last twice as long as it would without the helium effectively doubling your argon bottle.
Reply:So far, I haven't read one post on this thread where anyone has any experience trying this, except myself. I can tell you with experience that it works. As far as the cost of helium, I expect it is expensive, but I wouldn't know as I'm not paying for it at work. When the bottle goes empty, I go to the warehouse and pick up a full one. (For the record, I use straight argon on my machine at home.)Look, I didn't just decide to try this one day without consultation from a professional. At one time we had a CWI on retainer at my shop. The man was a welding guru. We had a mobile aluminum repair job on a work platform, and the only mobile machine we had (still have) was a Trailblazer. It didn't have quite enough a$$ to achieve decent penetration, so the CWI suggested the helium mix. It worked like a champ, and passed a class 2 NDE (dye penetration). The only thing you need to be careful of is to read the appropriate scale on your flowmeter that's hooked to the helium bottle. The graduations are a lot closer than the argon argon/helium scales.Bottom line, it works. If anyone chooses not to believe me without trying it themselves first, then that kind of takes the wind out of their argument. Speculation can be a dangerous thing.Miller Thunderbolt AC/DC (Sold)Miller Dialarc 250HFMiller MM251Miller MM200 (Sold)Miller MM130Miller Spot WelderVictor O/A rigMiller Spoolmatic 1 (Sold)
Reply:If you look closely, you can see the two flowmeters and the "Y" located halfway down the helium (purple) bottle, left side, just in case anyone doubted I was serious. Attached ImagesMiller Thunderbolt AC/DC (Sold)Miller Dialarc 250HFMiller MM251Miller MM200 (Sold)Miller MM130Miller Spot WelderVictor O/A rigMiller Spoolmatic 1 (Sold)
Reply:I am not familiar with Smith, and do know what they do or do not produce.I had a feeling that your comment about the guys on the miller forum might have been some background info that would have been useful to me I misread what you wrote; I read "mixes" when you wrote "mixeRs".Thank you, I did misunderstand, and overall, I stand corrected.-razer
Reply:I don't really feel that I am trying to cut costs.  In general, the idea of fabrication is a costly one for an individual.  Sure, I don't have a dynasty 700 in a large warehouse with all the neat other bells and whistles, but I haven't gone and try to hook up a TIG torch up to a car battery and become enraged at it's performance.  I bought a used machine that is pretty old, it works great though and does what I want it to.  I don't know for sure if what you suggest is accurate, it sounds like all of this is merely theory beyond a man here stating he does this at job and it works within his needs.I asked at several forums how to wire up my welder and such, a lot of people disagreed with what I suggested because it was outside of the codes that I believe are created by the companies that produce electrical things.  My setup isn't perfect, but it works : D.  Maybe someday I will have several large welders on 3 phase in a giant faraday cage.Miller 330 a/bp water cooledI believe in gun control, I hold my gun with two hands.  If you want to know why, click here.Buy American or bye America.
Reply:Originally Posted by 7A749Been there myself, be assured of that!! No harm done, for sure. Smith manufactures regulators, torches & gas mixers among other things. They are owned by ITW, who also owns Miller Electric.Soo.. Need to wash a welding machine? Just wondered if that was what you meant. I have washed a few or so.