Weldor Shortage

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Read this:http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/...-ua-video.htmlI hope it's okay to link to other welding sites. I'm new here so don't unplug me if it it isn't. (please)
Reply:While I do believe todays youth doesn't want to get their hands dirty their is no shortage of weldors. These companies don't want to pay and thats the problem. Their are many qualified weldors looking for work and willing to travel but won't do so for peanuts and I don't blame them. Good luck finding x-ray quality weldors in Mexico.I.B.E.W Electrician and Damn Proud of It !!!! .Virtus Junxit Mors Non Separabit http://www.shrinershospitalsforchildren.org/
Reply:i dont mean to stir up a hornets nest but i disagree there is a shortage of welders all skilled trades for that matter todays youth  doesnt want to get hands dirty and in my area of the country if you dont own alot of acres todays farmer or rancher is going to make it and the youth doesnt want to take over farming or ranching any more this is just my opinionmiller maxstar 150   hobart handler 210 w mig conversion hobart 250 arc force plasma cutter    boston ind cutting torch miller performance auto darkening helmet milwalkee 14in chop saw 10,000 watt generator huge drill press and industrial band saw
Reply:I dont know what you consider young. I am 25 and very good at getting dirty on a daily basis. Week days and weekends. All though most people think I am much older. There are some good young workers. but there are allot more young know it all punks.
Reply:Hey guys,I have gone into semi-retirement from my employer (3) years ago, and I still work p/t there. Although I work (4) hrs/day, 5 days/wk when we're busy, this year has been a bust with the economy. Fortunately, our company has survived because we sell used & refurbished. I have worked maybe 160 hrs total this year. In a way it has been handy with my home shop keeping busy with the repair sector flourishing quite well. I'll reach full retirement age(66) next month and I plan to work as much as I can at my company if we have the work. Many others my age are hanging their helmets up & yes, there is a shortage of weldors & that shortage is going to grow rapidly in the next 3-5 yrs. There are many welding jobs here in my area of SW PA, but they pay peanuts and the drive into the city is a nightmare. That's why those positions aren't getting filled. Most of these mindless companies want 5+ years experience in every process, fab, machining, fitting, blueprint reading, & symbol understanding and they offer $10/hr...... talk about an insult. They can't get anyone for $20/hr here with the daily commute into the city on the insane morning & evening traffic madness.I also see many rigs up for sale as the pipeline/rig jobs have dwindled to almost nil. Those guys can't make the payments on their $70K rigs & are on the ropes with their mortgage obligations. It's definitely a doggie-dog work scenario anymore. There are jobs to be had, although you better be good, pass the quals, be clean, and give 8hrs work for 8hrs pay. I guess these companies feel they now have the upper hand.... & they do in many instances. I still find there are companies will pay a good wage for good work ethics & productivity..... just gotta get to them. I'm glad I'm at the stage of life I have reached & the security I worked for all my life. You youngsters have a real bumpy road in front of you.... give it hell if you can.....it's the only way you're gonna make it. Don't hesitate to learn any of the trades if you can.....it's all beneficial in the long run.DennyComplete Welding/Machine/Fab. ShopMobile UnitFinally retired*Moderator*"A man's word is his honor...without honor there is nothing.""Words are like bullets.... Once they leave your muzzle, you cannot get them back."
Reply:There is a shortage of welders and employers are the cause.  I know a quite a few guys that have been laid off and went to work in a different field because noone wanted to pay a decent wage.  The contractors that have work are cutting pay way back on rig welders hoping everyone is hungry enough to take the chump change.  When I got laid off early in the year, I interviewed for a company that builds alot of parts used in the nuclear industry.  I went in to the interview and weld test only to walk out the door when they told me pay was $11hr.  Wound up finding work for a few dollars under what I made before and I just got a sweet tig job making more than I made before I got laidoff.
Reply:It's all based on supply and demand.   You got thousands of rigs, or thousands of guys, out there competing for ten jobs, yes, the price is gonna drop.   Funny how, the guys that like to stand their ground, maintain the price, on a professional level,  are oftentimes the first ones that take the low bid, when spending their own money.   Even 40 years ago, I knew die-hard union guys, saved $50,000 or better, bidding their own personal houses out to non-union contractors.   I have never, ever, yet, met a union man, that was willing to pay union scale out of his OWN pocket.
Reply:Originally Posted by jsfabIt's all based on supply and demand.   You got thousands of rigs, or thousands of guys, out there competing for ten jobs, yes, the price is gonna drop.   Funny how, the guys that like to stand their ground, maintain the price, on a professional level,  are oftentimes the first ones that take the low bid, when spending their own money.   Even 40 years ago, I knew die-hard union guys, saved $50,000 or better, bidding their own personal houses out to non-union contractors.   I have never, ever, yet, met a union man, that was willing to pay union scale out of his OWN pocket.
Reply:What I was talking about had nothing to do with the union, it has to do with contractors and employers taking advantage of the slump to line their pockets even more.  Seen it happen personally with a very large world wide company.
Reply:I would think a true shortage of welders would be an ideal situation for welders.
Reply:Originally Posted by SandyI would think a true shortage of welders would be an ideal situation for welders.
Reply:Originally Posted by SandyI would think a true shortage of welders would be an ideal situation for welders.
Reply:There's no shortage of weldors here, but there is a shortage of welding jobs.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Funny, theres a shortage of welders here and jobs will range from $12 - $20hr with no experience but you have to pass cert tests to get the advancement in pay.  I'd say that there is a shortage even in CA given that part of the bay bridge project has been shipped over to China to have panels welded and in other area's I've read that companies are looking for welders out of Mexico but that one I'll take with a grain of salt.What is unfortunate is that the state ( Virginia ) axed $854M out of the VDOT budget which effectively killed a great many jobs that translates into a great deal of lost revenue for small to large businesses state wide and would have returned some of that $854M back to the state in the form of taxes which if you lived here you would know that the state bird is the revenue man.
Reply:Well were I work there are a couple young men working and when they frist started I wondered how long they be till they quit or get fired. They are still there and are go workers. I also think that some weld jobs out there are hard and require a lot of time an work and some of the young people would like office work or indoor work
Reply:I agree about some youth not wanting to get their hands dirty.  kinda why the country is falling apart, but thats another story. I started as as a graphic artist sittin behind a computer all day.  got to the point i had the chance to put it back as a hobby and get into real labor and fabricating. always been good at building stuff and getting my hands dirty tells me ive earned the result.Realgear 140 MIGMore DeWalt tools that I prolly needDIY 160 amp 40 OCV MOT Stick Welder
Reply:I got out of High School here in SE New Mexico in 1969. I worked several years as a helper and broke out welding in the oil patch in the early ‘70s. I hired out single hand, driving a welding truck for a company chasing oil rigs all over SE NM & West Texas for $12.00 an hour.Gasoline was $.35 a gallon, a gallon of milk was $.15, bread $.15 a loaf. A case of name brand beer was $3.00, cigarettes were $.35 a pack and a dozen eggs were $.25. Life was good. I was making enough money to feel confident about getting married and starting a family. The OIL CRISIS changed all of that. In the mid ‘70s there was a fabricated oil crisis that drove the cost of oil up and changed the economy world wide. By the late ‘70s early ‘80s I was still driving a welding truck doing the same thing but making $17.00 an hour. Life was livable, not as good as it had been because of “inflation.”Reagan and Bush were elected to the White House and overnite the economy went belly up. The oil patch, always with many ups and downs…never recovered to previous heights.In the late ‘90s I had finally worked my way back up to $12.00 an hour working in a fab shop in Southern Louisiana. By the mid 2000s I finally had to call it quits and accept disability.There is not a shortage of welders. There IS a good possibility that there will be soon though, unless there is something done about the wages paid to the working people. There was a time that a person could be proud of the money they earned working for a living as a tradesman. Those days are gone.Now, there are many who don’t see it as I do. They’re more than welcome to their own opinions. By the same token though, they’ll have to allow me mine, too.Only when the last tree has died and the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught will we realize we cannot eat money.                                         -Cree Indian ProverbSA 200 LincolnVictor Torches
Reply:I heard they had a bus load of Americans that got busted for crossing the border into Mexico looking for work."LOL"I was making $17.00 an hour tig welding and fabrication in a shop and out in the field back in 98. Due to an accident for some one elses carelessness I lost my job. Well I went into a different occupation to give my back time to heal.About a year ago I had a job lined up to manufacture(tig weld) small parts in a shop. And fabricate and weld any outside jobs that would come in. After taking the test and passing with no problems,he told me I had the job. My starting pay! $8.00  $.75 more than minimum wage. Wow!  Almost 30 years ago I made $8.00 an hour as a mechanic/welder helper. It is not right!THE OLDER I GET! THE  SMARTER MY DAD WAS!Thermal Arc 185 inverter Tig welderABITIG 26  tig torchLotus foot pedalLincoln 225 stick welderClark 185SG Mig spoolgunwelderVictor torch/regulatorsHF36" shear,bender,roller.
Reply:In 06 I was working as a senior field tech for a major satellite tv provider making $19.35 hr but working 20 hours a day over 4 days.  The long hours came from management not handling a change in company protocols properly and as a result our depot office cycled through all of its personell almost twice, I was the last of 4 that lasted 5 months when I was let go ( sleep deprivation makes for bad judgement calls whether working or driving from one job site to another 2 hours away ).  Moved to Georgia and started out with Walmart making $14.50hr then went up to $18.50 after 2.5 years only to find out my father was dying not long after my step mother passed so I packed up the family and transferred through work to another facility and ultimately taking a %50 to care for my father.  Getting to his home we find it to be nearly condemnable and as a result of the clean up I end up on several antibiotics to clear up various infections, a month later we found out he isn't dying and I went from $18.50 to $9.80hr for nothing.  The last time I made less than $10 was 11 years ago in my mid 20's and now I have a child to care for along with a ball and chain so this is why I'm in a welding training program.  Do I think there's a shortage of welders?  Well I do in the sense that there is a shortage of good welders after seeing a great deal of crappy welds on everything from custom car work to heavy equipment repair to even work done on the USS Wisconsin back in the day.  I think that if parts of the sanfrancisco bay bridge are being shipped over to China to be welded there then its either a lack of skilled welders or someone wanting to save a buck though its costing them more because the Chinese cant weld worth **** and the majority of the welds have failed inspection due to cracks.I think that in many area's there are a lack of welding jobs and a lack of good paying welding jobs as well.  With allot of stuff being made from plastics and recycled materials as opposed to steel it hurts and it would be good to see metal craft return to what it once was.  I think that if we are going to pull the country out of its reliance on other countries then we need to start relying on ourselves again and go back to making more of our own goods and get away from the " I gotta have everything " mentality that is so heavily entrenched into our McDonald society.
Reply:Of the myriad of issues we have in the USA, I think the majority of our problems have to do with the politicians, EPA and the unions.The politicians are taxing everything to death, the companies can't afford to be in business. Business' in Chitcago are leaving every day because of the BS the city puts on them. I own a small construction and trucking company. For the trucking it costs me over $45.00/hr for a teamster. Thats just the union part of it, not the government. Then you have capitol investment payments, fuel, insurance, fed and state, ect. And the rates are $90.00/hr if your lucky, and if you are lucky to get paid at all, let alone on time. The workers are taxed to death, in IL at $40.00/hr you are living ok but God forbid you have a hobby or you want a summer place for your kids.The unions have become the very "big business" they were originally created to fight. They sell us out here in IL everyday. They are in the pockets of every democrat politician they can get to. The politicians let them do whatever they like (another unchecked division of the gov.), and as long as they get their idiot members to vote democrat, the vicious cycle keeps rolling. Chitcago is 99% democrat and we have no work, we are broke, we have some of the highest taxes in the nation, we are a sanctuary city for ILLEGALS. And the union workers are blaming Bush! (Gee, I wonder who put that thought in their minds?)The EPA and the tree hugging liberal freaks will not let America prroduce anything anymore. You drive thru Chitcago and look at all of those huge properties with big steel buildings where men used to go to work everyday to feed their families. Those buildings are all empty, alot in part because the taxes put on industry from the EPA (added into the high wages brought on by the unions..... needed from the workers to pay the high taxes..... put on by the government..... to pay the salaries and pentions for the politicians). Today we are going to be taxed because we exhale CO2, a TOXIC substance according to the environmental wacko's. CO2, THE VERY SUBSTANCE THE TREES (that the wacko's hug) NEED TO LIVE! I'm sorry, I feel like I'm in the twilight zone.We need to take America back. Global warming BS is proven to be BS, and ANY politician dealing with it should be charged with treason. We need to produce again. "Made in the USA" is the symbol of the highest quality known to man. Too bad my kids can't read that label much anymore. I don't know if it can ever happen, but we really need to get back to the basics of America first. Sorry to ramble, but I have a lot more time in front of this computer now that hope and change and chitcago style politics have come to America."Where's Stick man????????" - 7A749"SHHHHHH!! I sent him over to snag that MIC-4 while tbone wasn't looking!" - duaneb55"I have bought a few of Tbone's things unlike Stick-Man who helps himself" - TozziWelding"Stick-man"
Reply:here in New Mexico there is not a shortage of welders there is a shortage of professional welders it seams there is all kinds of south of the border so called welders cumming up and underbidding every one and the contractors here only pay them like $7-8 an hour the largest welding company in Albuquerque mega corp only pays $10 an hour for certified welders and $8 if your not its the people who don't know anything about welding that think any tom,dick or harry who can pull a trigger is a welder and that is what keeps the prices down here wage wise hell there was an add for tig guy in the paper the other day and starting was $16 an hour back east i was makeing twice that just to start.  that is the reason i do not have a welding job hereMillermatic 252Miller 675 plasmaJet bandsawchampion 80 gal. air compresservictor oxy-act torch
Reply:my thoughts exactly stick manRealgear 140 MIGMore DeWalt tools that I prolly needDIY 160 amp 40 OCV MOT Stick Welder
Reply:We have plenty of weldors, but a lack of qualified weldors. The whole idea of "joe" (who builds carports etc.) offered to do it cheaper is why I quit welding full time for a living. I worked primarily on heavy equipment and did mechanical repairs also. I have all my equipment paid for, but I still have mortage and bills to pay. Sure, I could do it for "Joe's" price and still be ok, but why? I got an excellent offer to work for a company that a friend of mine started 15 years ago when we were both working for $11.00/hr and tired of making the "Man" rich. I got in at the right time 5 years ago, got a very attractive salary pay with good insurance and benefits. I could not be happier, and now with the down turn of the economy I still have my job and benefits without having to go scramble for work. The problem that has now popped up, is "Joe" is out of business, the other good welder in town died, and now all my customers come back begging to get me to work for them. Of course I do it, for the same price I charged them in the past, but they have to wait until I have time. It is funny how alot of the repairs I make for them are "repairs of repairs". I always hear them say " I wish I had stayed with you or (the other good guy) and I would have been money and time ahead." I simply reply, "Me and you both.".............................."Look Good Doing It"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Reply:Originally Posted by Stick-manOf the myriad of issues we have in the USA, I think the majority of our problems have to do with the politicians, EPA and the unions.The politicians are taxing everything to death, the companies can't afford to be in business. Business' in Chitcago are leaving every day because of the BS the city puts on them. I own a small construction and trucking company. For the trucking it costs me over $45.00/hr for a teamster. Thats just the union part of it, not the government. Then you have capitol investment payments, fuel, insurance, fed and state, ect. And the rates are $90.00/hr if your lucky, and if you are lucky to get paid at all, let alone on time. The workers are taxed to death, in IL at $40.00/hr you are living ok but God forbid you have a hobby or you want a summer place for your kids.The unions have become the very "big business" they were originally created to fight. They sell us out here in IL everyday. They are in the pockets of every democrat politician they can get to. The politicians let them do whatever they like (another unchecked division of the gov.), and as long as they get their idiot members to vote democrat, the vicious cycle keeps rolling. Chitcago is 99% democrat and we have no work, we are broke, we have some of the highest taxes in the nation, we are a sanctuary city for ILLEGALS. And the union workers are blaming Bush! (Gee, I wonder who put that thought in their minds?)The EPA and the tree hugging liberal freaks will not let America prroduce anything anymore. You drive thru Chitcago and look at all of those huge properties with big steel buildings where men used to go to work everyday to feed their families. Those buildings are all empty, alot in part because the taxes put on industry from the EPA (added into the high wages brought on by the unions..... needed from the workers to pay the high taxes..... put on by the government..... to pay the salaries and pentions for the politicians). Today we are going to be taxed because we exhale CO2, a TOXIC substance according to the environmental wacko's. CO2, THE VERY SUBSTANCE THE TREES (that the wacko's hug) NEED TO LIVE! I'm sorry, I feel like I'm in the twilight zone.We need to take America back. Global warming BS is proven to be BS, and ANY politician dealing with it should be charged with treason. We need to produce again. "Made in the USA" is the symbol of the highest quality known to man. Too bad my kids can't read that label much anymore. I don't know if it can ever happen, but we really need to get back to the basics of America first. Sorry to ramble, but I have a lot more time in front of this computer now that hope and change and chitcago style politics have come to America.
Reply:Originally Posted by tx-pipelinerI read online the new diesel trucks are going to be going up 6-7k in price come 2011-2012. So what used to cost 45k is now gonna cost 52k thanks to the EPA.Originally Posted by Stick-manOf the myriad of issues we have in the USA, I think the majority of our problems have to do with the politicians, EPA and the unions.The politicians are taxing everything to death, the companies can't afford to be in business. Business' in Chitcago are leaving every day because of the BS the city puts on them. I own a small construction and trucking company. For the trucking it costs me over $45.00/hr for a teamster. Thats just the union part of it, not the government. Then you have capitol investment payments, fuel, insurance, fed and state, ect. And the rates are $90.00/hr if your lucky, and if you are lucky to get paid at all, let alone on time. The workers are taxed to death, in IL at $40.00/hr you are living ok but God forbid you have a hobby or you want a summer place for your kids.The unions have become the very "big business" they were originally created to fight. They sell us out here in IL everyday. They are in the pockets of every democrat politician they can get to. The politicians let them do whatever they like (another unchecked division of the gov.), and as long as they get their idiot members to vote democrat, the vicious cycle keeps rolling. Chitcago is 99% democrat and we have no work, we are broke, we have some of the highest taxes in the nation, we are a sanctuary city for ILLEGALS. And the union workers are blaming Bush! (Gee, I wonder who put that thought in their minds?)The EPA and the tree hugging liberal freaks will not let America prroduce anything anymore. You drive thru Chitcago and look at all of those huge properties with big steel buildings where men used to go to work everyday to feed their families. Those buildings are all empty, alot in part because the taxes put on industry from the EPA (added into the high wages brought on by the unions..... needed from the workers to pay the high taxes..... put on by the government..... to pay the salaries and pentions for the politicians). Today we are going to be taxed because we exhale CO2, a TOXIC substance according to the environmental wacko's. CO2, THE VERY SUBSTANCE THE TREES (that the wacko's hug) NEED TO LIVE! I'm sorry, I feel like I'm in the twilight zone.We need to take America back. Global warming BS is proven to be BS, and ANY politician dealing with it should be charged with treason. We need to produce again. "Made in the USA" is the symbol of the highest quality known to man. Too bad my kids can't read that label much anymore. I don't know if it can ever happen, but we really need to get back to the basics of America first. Sorry to ramble, but I have a lot more time in front of this computer now that hope and change and chitcago style politics have come to America.
Reply:Originally Posted by bassboy1Spot on!I can honestly say that there isn't much I hate more than Unions, Agenda toting politicians, and EPA nuts.  Just makes me sick to my stomach to see what the three are doing to this country.  I'm right there with you.  For the sake of Americans as a whole (not just weldors and the likes), something has to change, big time.  If something doesn't make a turn for the better soon, we will be a third world country, in a fairly short bit of time.
Reply:Originally Posted by Sparky#1You wonder why our southern brethren receive such low wages ???? keep blaming this mess on unions.
Reply:Originally Posted by Sparky#1You wonder why our southern brethren receive such low wages ???? keep blaming this mess on unions.
Reply:Originally Posted by bassboy1Aye.  But non union wages are generally determined solely by capitalism.  As in, supply and demand etc.  The free market economy determines wages, prices etc.  Sure, union members make higher salaries, but it is short lived, as a free market economy cannot work around inflated wages.  In the long run, the issue catches up, and entire industries either ship overseas, or go belly up.  Then tell me about the nice wages.  Take a look at the economic situation of GM and Chrysler (both under union control) and compare that to say Kia, Honda, or Toyota, all of whom have strictly non union plants here in the states.  Tell me that difference isn't almost entirely union related.Don't even get me started on the Teacher's union.
Reply:Originally Posted by Big65moparI was making $18.50hr in Georgia and for the same company I'm making $10.60hr not even a year later and living in Virginia Beach one of the most costliest places in Virginia to live.  Doing the right thing got not only me screwed but my wife and daughter and its put us in a bad enough situation that I would rather be living back where I was in the south than here.  I know what your saying about taxes, it was bad in Michigan under Grandholms watch and its exceptionally bad here in Virginia where the taxes eclipse anything that I have ever seen.So I'm hoping that this welding school will pay off and I can get into something decent enough that I won't have to worry about how to provide for my family and have to live paycheck to paycheck and eventually allow me to put together a mobile and shop rig so that I can move us out to the country side and run my own business away from the cities getting back to a better way of life.
Reply:You're missing the point. The original idea of the unions was great. It was definately needed. But today you have a situation where the union officials are are just another unchecked branch of corrupt politicians. (reread my first post)The teamster ba's are making anywhere from 90k to 250k in chitcago. They drive Hummer H2's plastered with teamster wallpaper for advertising. Why is a ba making one penny over scale based on 40 hrs? The president should make maybe $5.00 over scale. The union hall they just built looks like the Taj Mahal, with its marble walls and floors and granite counter tops. There is no reason for that. That is coming out of my pocket, the workers pocket and the employers pockets who can't afford to hire more workers because of the ridiculous costs which go to the unions.And why aren't you blaming the politicians for our open border policy. Chitcago is a sanctuary city for illegals. We have more illegal polish, russian, mexican and more working for nothing. The politicians keep them for their votes and they still have to buy things which is more sales tax. I can go on and on but please quit blaming the business owners who take the win or lose chances by providing a job for you. They are entitled to make ALOT more money than the worker. Otherwise why go thru all the headaches of being in business, and then there are no jobs."Where's Stick man????????" - 7A749"SHHHHHH!! I sent him over to snag that MIC-4 while tbone wasn't looking!" - duaneb55"I have bought a few of Tbone's things unlike Stick-Man who helps himself" - TozziWelding"Stick-man"
Reply:Originally Posted by Stick-manYou're missing the point. The original idea of the unions was great. It was definately needed. But today you have a situation where the union officials are are just another unchecked branch of corrupt politicians. (reread my first post)The teamster ba's are making anywhere from 90k to 250k in chitcago. They drive Hummer H2's plastered with teamster wallpaper for advertising. Why is a ba making one penny over scale based on 40 hrs? The president should make maybe $5.00 over scale. The union hall they just built looks like the Taj Mahal, with its marble walls and floors and granite counter tops. There is no reason for that. That is coming out of my pocket, the workers pocket and the employers pockets who can't afford to hire more workers because of the ridiculous costs which go to the unions.And why aren't you blaming the politicians for our open border policy. Chitcago is a sanctuary city for illegals. We have more illegal polish, russian, mexican and more working for nothing. The politicians keep them for their votes and they still have to buy things which is more sales tax. I can go on and on but please quit blaming the business owners who take the win or lose chances by providing a job for you. They are entitled to make ALOT more money than the worker. Otherwise why go thru all the headaches of being in business, and then there are no jobs.
Reply:Originally Posted by Sparky#1The laws involving wages and benefits were put their because of unions and without them things will get worse.
Reply:Originally Posted by bassboy1What makes you think that?
Reply:Originally Posted by Stick-manAnd why aren't you blaming the politicians for our open border policy. Chitcago is a sanctuary city for illegals. We have more illegal polish, russian, mexican and more working for nothing. The politicians keep them for their votes and they still have to buy things which is more sales tax.
Reply:Well I have been reading this thread for awhile and debating on whether to jump in or not. I think we are getting into subjects that probably belong under a different forum but anyway here is my 2 cents worth.First off I am a Union man. I am the Business Manager of an IBEW Local in northern Indiana. We service members in Manufacturing, Municiple and Public utilities. We have approximately 700 members in our Local. Our area has been the hardest hit by the current economic downturn IN THE COUNTRY, not my opinion- FACT. Is there a shortage of welders? My answer would be no there is not. Is there a shortage of welders who can pass a certification process of any kind? The answer is yes. The reasons for this is not nearly as easy as some would have you believe. Young people don't want to get dirty. This is the same glib BS that we all heard when we were kids and is simply not true. People want to work and they want to be appreciated for their work. Do young people or older people for that matter want to do any job for $11/hr that should be paid more when they can do something else and make more? This does not mean they do not want to get dirty but it does mean that they want to get the most for their time and effort. The workers standard of living has crumbled in the last 30 years. There is no way we can come close to what our parents and grandparents were able to do. How many people can work a single income family and still have money for the essentials as well as put money away for vacations and college for the kids? Most families today have multiple wage earners and still struggle to get by. In the 70's politics changed and the idea of wealth changed. Trickle down economics changed our world FOREVER. The tax rate on the ultra rich went from 79% to 32%. This lead to rich people being able to keep more of the money that they would have invested in their companies. This then lead to a continuing need to look for the cheapest process so more money can stay in their pockets. Even if it means going overseas.  Before they got tax breaks by reinvesting into ther companies, now they don't need them. The process for taxing the ultra rich so that they reinvest was founded from the start of income tax. At that time the tax rate was even higher than the 70's. So are Unions needed now? Absolutely! If anyone thinks that wages are what they are because employers are benevolent they are only kidding themselves. The reason wages and benefits are above minimum wage in non- union shops is only due to the fear of Unionization. Unions are strictly a product of bad management. If it wasn't for management that didn't care for safety, fair wages, good benefits, decent working hours/conditions and job security, Unions would not be necessary. However that is not true. Most employers would do the bare minimum that puts the most in their own pockets no matter what happens to the employees. Only because of Unions do we have: weekends, 8 hour work days, OSHA, healthcare, minimum wages, and a chance to give our children something better than we had. I have no contracts where any worker is making a killing. Remember contracts are NEGOTIATED. That means BOTH sides sit down and work out the details. No Union can strong arm a company like in the movies. No Union wants a company to fail either. That is counter productive. No Union wants to go on strike. That is also counter productive. We all want our people to be productive and the companies to excel. That means that we have JOBS and can feed our families and do the things that life affords us. As far as rich BA's go I don't know of any. My salary is based on the contract I negotiate for my members. It is regulated in our bylaws and believe me it is watched over by Uncle Sam. I am salaried so I don't get overtime. I am elected by my memebrs and can be reoved if I don't do my job. There are far more regulations on Unions than there are on on company book keeping. If that were the same for both there would not have been an Enron, Bernie Madoff, or the Wall Street debacle of last year. I hope that what is gleened from this is that there are no glib answers to any problems. Look at issues realistically.
Reply:Originally Posted by DesertRider33I agree with many of your other sentiments and I agree that illegal workers are a big problem, especially here in California, which is also a sanctuary state for them.  However, your comment about votes is wrong, for the simple reason that illegals cant vote.  Only citizens can vote.  Not to say that many illegals didn't illegally register to vote in Chicago through Obama's corrupt voter registration program but, by definition, illegals can't vote, so polititians pandering to their vote is rather stupid.  The polititians do, however, pander to legal voters who are sympathetic to the illegals.
Reply:Originally Posted by billsss  The tax rate on the ultra rich went from 79% to 32%. This lead to rich people being able to keep more of the money that they would have invested in their companies.  Even if it means going overseas.  As far as rich BA's go I don't know of any. My salary is based on the contract I negotiate for my members.
Reply:My 2 cents. Taxes are bad. You  will always be able to spend your own money better then any government beucracy. When government isn't there to be big brother people are very careful with their money. Look at the chinese, their savings rate are considerably higher then the US (china is around 40%?).US government infrastructure work is a bunch of bull****. Nothing ever gets done here and the money always flows to the most well connected companies in DC and to maintain our giant empire (bases in a 188 countries,etc..) I sure hope the US tax structure and the EPA doesn't burden the companies even more. A few firms are planning on building some big projects in the next 5-10 year cycle but if the EPA has their way they won't even build the plants here. The refinery industry has become so riddled with red tape no companies want to even bother with all the loop holes.To tell you the truth, if I had a bunch of money and knew how to speak Chinese I'd open up a welding supply store in China. They've launched and BEGUN WORK on so many giant projects since all these finance and debt problems started.  Just look at the Three Gorges dam, we could have built like a 1000 of them instead of just one of those BS bailouts. These politicians bailed out people that drive Aston Martins and Maserati's with our money and our future earnings. Socialized losses and privatized profits is brilliantI mean just today I was talking to an official retailer for victor and he was telling me about he heard about some deal where about 800 torches were shipped off to china and australia. The fortunes of tomorrow and a giant middle class are going to be made in China.
Reply:Originally Posted by sparky#1this is why i think unions are more needed now than ever $10.60 hr in the most expensive place in va is obsurd. That's nothing more than greedy business owners and crooked politicians to blame.going back to my favorite saying" if you want qualified workers you have to pay for it" if you cannot afford qualified labor close up shop or do it your damn self.