a question about single-handing

admin

I have been welding for a couple of guys for the last year.  I don't run my own rig and I work under their company as a nothing more that a day laborer.  This works out most of the time due to my circumstances.  I have run into one major question.  Assuming, they are properly insured, bonded, legitimate, and certified.Am I on the hook if they have weldment that has a catastrophic failure that I welded?  I have had the privilege to work where there was an engineer that called all the shots and I simply had to follow the plans, but this last year, I have been flying without an engineer and relying on the experience of supervising welder.  Most of what we do isn't ever going to see an engineer and is repair work that may or may not be re-certified.  I have a welder that wants to pick me up as a single hand.  He is semi retired and is an excellent welder, but sometimes does things that make me uncomfortable due to my lack of experience and understanding.  One thing is he rarely uses 7018.  He uses 7014 and 7024 for most of his heavy work and he uses 6010/11 for things that I would think need 7018.  His 6010/11 welds are textbook beautiful and are flawless.  I would love to work with him so I could learn from him.  He has a zen thing going on when he strikes an arc, but I don't want to have my head chopped off because we used the wrong filler metal.This older welder has goose neck cattle trailer that was welded with only 6010.  And another goose neck car hauler flatbed that was welded with 6010, 7014 and 7024.  His rational for not using 7018 is they are only good for a limited time out of the oven and then they are no different than 7014s.  He will buy them in ten pound cans when needed and laughs at the 5lb boxes calling them "a dishonest proposition".  He says most structural welding today is so advanced in design that the welds are many times simply redundancy.I need your advice.
Reply:it would seem to me that if you are working under the close supervision of a more experienced welder that he would be the one carrying the liability.Dynasty 200DXPassport plus w/ spoolmate 100victor 315c oxy/(act and prop)Miller digital elitemilwaukee power tools
Reply:It becomes a liability issue for you if you stencil your weld or record on a weldmap. Otherwise there is no way to prove who made the weld....good,bad, or indifferent. If you are making critical welds then the customer should be making provisions for Q.C. I don't understand his rational for using the 7024 assuming he is only burning it the flat or horizontal position. That is a great fast fill rod ideally suited for heavy manufacturing in the proper position. I have welded a lot of stuff with only P-5 and no Lo-Hy. I would though cap all my P-5 beads with Lo-Hy on a goose neck. If you get concerned with what rod to use just remember what the #s on the rod stand for, First two digits are tensile strength, the third is position, and the fourth is normally polarity. Knowing this will enable you to make the weld you need to make with confidence the first time and no cut outs.
Reply:The owner of the company you're working for is the one who will be on the hook for anything that goes wrong with the job that his company was responsible for.  As an employee, you are shielded from direct liability to the end customer, via your employer.  Once you go out on your own, you hold the liability bag on your own too.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Originally Posted by DesertRider33The owner of the company you're working for is the one who will be on the hook for anything that goes wrong with the job that his company was responsible for.  As an employee, you are shielded from direct liability to the end customer, via your employer.  Once you go out on your own, you hold the liability bag on your own too.
Reply:Nothing wrong with 6011,7014,or 7024 for  mild steel. 90% of the welding I do is 7018 not because it has to be but I really don't need to keep so many rods around.Tough as nails and damn near as smart
Reply:I have done a fair amount of stick welding, not as much as some of you, obviously, but I am surprised that electrode choice is that big of an issue when it comes to something like a trailer. Most of my stick welding has been an equal mix of 6010 and 7018, with a little 7024 and a few other rods thrown in. I was taught in school that since the tensile strength of 6010 is 60k psi, it's suitable for most mild steel work since it's only good to 55k psi. I can understand when it comes to stuff with strict code like pipe welding and bridge code, but I wouldn't think twice about using 6010 for a trailer. Assuming fit-up and penetration are good wouldn't it work just fine?
Reply:Originally Posted by racinjason44I have done a fair amount of stick welding, not as much as some of you, obviously, but I am surprised that electrode choice is that big of an issue when it comes to something like a trailer. Most of my stick welding has been an equal mix of 6010 and 7018, with a little 7024 and a few other rods thrown in. I was taught in school that since the tensile strength of 6010 is 60k psi, it's suitable for most mild steel work since it's only good to 55k psi. I can understand when it comes to stuff with strict code like pipe welding and bridge code, but I wouldn't think twice about using 6010 for a trailer. Assuming fit-up and penetration are good wouldn't it work just fine?
Reply:Thank yall for the answers.  In my professional work as a welder/fitter, there was always an engineer dictating weld placement, size, filler metal, etc.  You can get spoiled..lol.  I understand they most commonly will use the tried and true to cover their rears, to cut down on time as far as research goes and to keep it simple as far as how many electrodes to keep on hand on the floor.  7018 covers it all, mostly.  That said, when I must admit I don't know and do as I have been taught...default to 7018.Last edited by Scott Young; 12-31-2009 at 10:49 PM.
Reply:I think a weldor needs to know their limitations. I personally am not a certified weldor. However I am very confident in my ability to the point where if I had to build a trailer with 6013, I would. Would it be my first choice? No. But I would also use a 6010 or 7014. My personal preference would be S-6.Note: Anything that I have welded that really mattered, has never broken."Where's Stick man????????" - 7A749"SHHHHHH!! I sent him over to snag that MIC-4 while tbone wasn't looking!" - duaneb55"I have bought a few of Tbone's things unlike Stick-Man who helps himself" - TozziWelding"Stick-man"
Reply:Originally Posted by Scott YoungThank yall for the answers.  In my professional work as a welder/fitter, there was always an engineer dictating weld placement, size, filler metal, etc.  I understand they most commonly will use the tried and true to cover their rears, to cut down on time as far as research goes and to keep it simple as far as how many electrodes to keep on hand on the floor.  7018 covers it all, mostly.  That said, when I must admit I don't know and do as I have been taught...default to 7018.
Reply:Originally Posted by racinjason44I have done a fair amount of stick welding, not as much as some of you, obviously, but I am surprised that electrode choice is that big of an issue when it comes to something like a trailer. Most of my stick welding has been an equal mix of 6010 and 7018, with a little 7024 and a few other rods thrown in. I was taught in school that since the tensile strength of 6010 is 60k psi, it's suitable for most mild steel work since it's only good to 55k psi. I can understand when it comes to stuff with strict code like pipe welding and bridge code, but I wouldn't think twice about using 6010 for a trailer. Assuming fit-up and penetration are good wouldn't it work just fine?