how NOT to weld cast iron, repair bad weld job

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Cast iron pan from a diesel forklift eng. Dude that dropped it off claimed it was preheated and then nirod welded. I don't know- but if you look at pics there is paint within 3/4" inch of welds??? I know I did pre/post heat and the paint was turned to ashes! Looking at the nirod welds shows that up to 4 inches was welded w/o stopping. Big no-no on cold casting. It could have been cold welded with short beads, peening, and cooling periods between welds. It could have been heated and welded with longer runs between cool down periods. But looks like niether procedure was followed. It cracked on each side of welds and in other palces, looks like the guy welded over some of the new cracks before giving up. In the past I have tried to weld over some jobs such as this with little, and most of the time no success. I have learned the only reliable, time tested way to repair is to cut out outside of bad welds and patch area.I started cutting area out with cutoff wheel on grinder and heard TING. It cracked some more! Then again TING! and this time I saw the crack open up. Seems there was a lot of stress from welding within the casting. I cut a patch from some 3/8 hr steel and shaped roughly to hole in casting, then brazed it in. I told customer it probably would be cheaper to replace it before I unloaded it. He said there were no pans available, and didn't ask for quote. He gave me impression that he thought price was a little high when he picked it up. I wish he would have found a replacement or asked for quote, it was a PITA to repair. Its more fun when I make money and customer is happy. I would have said "nahh I can't fix that" if I would have known of outcome before hand.800 degree preheat, welded it while hot. Postheat 800 degrees with slow cool. OA braze with low fuming bronze.Peter Attached Images
Reply:rest of pics Attached Images
Reply:OOPS posted in wrong place, can someone move this?
Reply:Guy brings you a piece of junk he obviously couldn't fix, doesn't ask for a quote, you deliver a work of art and he complains about the price.Should have framed the cutout and given it to him as a souvenir.Awesome job as always.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Originally Posted by duaneb55Guy brings you a piece of junk he obviously couldn't fix, doesn't ask for a quote, you deliver a work of art and he complains about the price.Should have framed the cutout and given it to him as a souvenir.Awesome job as always.
Reply:Quality workmanship there my friend.Good stuff!JasonLincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tigThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52Miller Bobcat 250Torchmate CNC tableThermal Arc Hefty 2Ironworkers Local 720
Reply:Originally Posted by snoeproeQuality workmanship there my friend.Good stuff!
Reply:Ooooh, all clean and shiny after the media blasting.   A coat of paint and the rest of the machine will be jealous of how good the pan now looks.    The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...
Reply:Wow; what a nice repair. The guy obviously had no idea what it REALLY takes to fix a cracked up piece of CI. You did him a killer job; he had no reason to bitch unless you hit him for $1800 or something.And then, after so much work...... you have it in your hand, and you look over to your side...... and the runner has run off. Leaving you holding the prize, wondering when the runner will return.
Reply:Originally Posted by RojodiabloWow; what a nice repair. The guy obviously had no idea what it REALLY takes to fix a cracked up piece of CI. You did him a killer job; he had no reason to bitch unless you hit him for $1800 or something.
Reply:I am in total awe of this repair, I will remember this one for the rest of my carrer.Nothing Ever Got Done By Quitting, Never Give Up.
Reply:Nice job.I read on some site, whose name escapes me for a moment, about repairs like yours.Instead of using 3/8 plate they cut the hole more or less square and fabbed a patch the same shape. The only difference being is they used 3/16" plate and flanged the edges a 1/2" or so and welded the edge of the flange to the origonal pan. Theory being the flange allowed enough movement/flexability to prevent cracking.BTW, your customer got off too cheap, as you were passing it to him you should have 'accidentally' dropped it on the floor ......Mike
Reply:Awsome job cant stop looking at it, if you dont mind me asking what did it cost him
Reply:I wish I could say I done that or even had the knowledge to even begin to think about repairing that..........that's just.......speechless......dougMaxus Pro-125 MigChicago Electric 90 amp DC flux-coreLincoln Electric AC 225 tombstoneO/A torchM/O mini-torch10 acres of flatland15 acres of holler
Reply:I had a cast iron vise that broke,so I o/a brazed it with brass rod,held for a little while then broke again.I bought another vise,bought a cheap flux core welder,looking for something to try the welder out on,seen the broken vise laying in the corner of the garage,said what the hell,so I welded it up with the flux core 0.035 lincoln wire,have took the new vise back off the workbench and put the old welded vise back on the workbench,much bigger and better vise than the new one,still holding together,don't ask me how or why,it just is,even after hammering on it,figured it would just start cracking again but it hasn't,go figure....dougit will since I have posted this(lol)Maxus Pro-125 MigChicago Electric 90 amp DC flux-coreLincoln Electric AC 225 tombstoneO/A torchM/O mini-torch10 acres of flatland15 acres of holler
Reply:Nice repair.  Very professional blasting and finishing.  As a side note: when replacing cast iron with a mild steel patch only 3/4 of the original thickness required for equivalent strength.  Personally I prefer brazing for these kinds of repairs.
Reply:Very nice repairwork. The 1st welder did nothing to repair it but surface welds which where not properly prepared. Castweld did it properly,Co-Own CNC shop:Miller :1251 plasma cutter, MaxStar 700 TIG/Stick, & XMT 456 Multiprocess Welder.&  2 Hypertherm HPR260's Plasma CutterSorry I had a bad stroke but now I am back.
Reply:Very good job, CW!!! Neither the customer or his weldor have a clue what it takes to fix something like that. Since a replacement wasn't available, price shouldn't have been a topic of discussion. He'd probably complain about the price to a Dr. saving his life.                             MikeOl' Stonebreaker  "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes"Hobart G-213 portableMiller 175 migMiller thunderbolt ac/dc stick Victor O/A setupMakita chop saw
Reply:Originally Posted by Doug247I am in total awe of this repair, I will remember this one for the rest of my carrer.
Reply:Originally Posted by dugndeepI wish I could say I done that or even had the knowledge to even begin to think about repairing that..........that's just.......speechless......doug
Reply:Peter,What diameter rod and size welding tip did you use?  How many passes does it take to fill a vee that size?BTW, thanks in main part to your advice I successfully braze-welded that foot shear leg. Quite proud of it, but not your quality of work.ken
Reply:Originally Posted by kenc184Peter,What diameter rod and size welding tip did you use?  How many passes does it take to fill a vee that size?BTW, thanks in main part to your advice I successfully braze-welded that foot shear leg. Quite proud of it, but not your quality of work.ken
Reply:Stunning repair job...Almost too pretty to paint. You saved that guys machine from the scrapper. I'm just thinking back at other similar repairs I've seen over the years and shuddering ...they looked like what you started with..not what you finished with.
Reply:Nice work! It's unlikely, but one day I'd love to have the knowledge and skills to do work like this.Lincoln AC225 & MigPak 140, Lincoln Magnum SpoolGun, Miller Spectrum 375-X Plasma, Syncrowave 200 TIG, Millermatic 252 MIG, Miller Digital Elite, General 7x12" horiz/vert bandsaw, 3' box/pan brake, 20 ton press, milling machine, 12x28 lathe, etc.
Reply:Originally Posted by 7A749Yeah. That's the difference between the "average" guy & you.Time & skill.You use both to the best of their possible potential.Not kissing up, but you do some really cool repairs on stuff most wouldn't touch.Just another job for you, but something really cool to see for me & many others.You aren't an arrogant dick either. Lots of guys get on these boards swaggering around how much money they make & spend, or how much work they lose if they aren't there to pick up their never silent phone You always take time to respond to comments & questions.That just adds to the level of respect I have for you & what you do.