MillerMatic 252 vs. Lincoln Electric 255XT

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Alright I'm a new welder at the very beginning of my training and I'm looking at both the Miller 252 and the Lincoln 255.  Which of these two should I invest in as my first MIG welder and why?as always, many thanks and Merry Christmas
Reply:Well ,I have owned Miller 250x, 252 both are great machines but now I have Lincoln 255XT and am very happy with the unit. Most of the new 255XT have the spot timer and some other options that Miller does not offer. The older Millers were better than the newer ones, i think because of "cooper" in the older machines!! I would highly recommend the Lincoln , but it all on what YOU want and what your DEALER can offer best price and sevice. I personally have ever had to send one in for any service but not all are like that. I would advise to stay away from Thermal Arc and Esab, have my reservations on those companies strength in this economy?!?!?!?! Lincoln and Miller are here to stay and Made In USA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! cant beat that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! God Bless the USAwelding instuctor
Reply:Thermal Arc and ESAB are not going anywhere, they've been around for decades and have very sizable market share in their primary markets.   I wouldn't hesitate to buy either of them if I wanted to.  I do own a Thermal Arc tig and it has been a great machine for me for about 4 years or so.  I would have preferred to have bought a Dynasty, but the Thermal Arc offered all the same capabilities as the Dynasty for ALOT less money and is a very highly respected machine, for good reason.  I don't regret my purchase at all and will likely upgrade to a bigger model Thermal Arc when the time comes.  Thermal Arc is part of Thermadyne, which also owns Thermal Dynamics, Victor, Arcair and Stoody, among others.  ESAB's line of mig machines grew out of the Linde migs from the 80's.  ESAB is a major player in the European welding and cutting equipment markets and has significant market share here in the US and other world markets as well.  As a welding instructor, I'm surprised you are not aware of these companies' history and presence in the welding industry, past and present???The Millermatic 250 and 250X don't have a great reputation as great machines, but many still like them and use them.  I have not owned or used either of them.  I have used all the Millermatics from the 35, 200, 180, 211, 210, 212, 251, 252 and I own the 175 and  350P.  They are all great machines in their respective classes and I would not hesitate to recommend any of them.  I own mostly blue machines because I like Miller and their customer service is excellent and they put out a truely great product.   As well, they are made in the US and that is important to me.  Another US made welding company is HTP.  They make good quality migs at very affordable prices and have great customer service as well.  I have owned one of their migs for nearly 20 years and it has been very reliable for me.  www.htpweld.comThe Lincolns I don't have much experience with but I'm sure they are great machines in their own right, especially the higher end Powermigs.  I wouldn't hesitate to buy any of the higher end machines if I wanted to.  I serioiusly considered the Powermig 350MP when I chose my MM350P.   The 350P was less expensive and I didn't need the tig/stick capability of the 350MP and I had extensive prior production welding experience with the 350P.  I do shy away from Lincoln's lower line of big box store portable migs cause they are not US made and I feel Miller makes a better product in the portable mig market.Last edited by DesertRider33; 12-20-2009 at 12:18 PM.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:I haven't ran a 255 or 252. I own a ESAB Migmaster 250 ; which happens to be a real good unit for my needs. The main reason I am enter this thread is to point out that the MM 252 does offer such features as Run-in, Pre & post flow shielding gas, burnback, and spot stitch timers.I did use to own a MM 251; which, I felt was very good unit. Admittedly I did sell it to purchase the ESAB. The reason for this being that I decided the 251 had to soft of an arc for me. I was looking for a short circuit transfer arc that had a little more pep to it but still wet the weld puddle out well, and produced a low spatter level. So far I 've been pleased with my decision to purchase the ESAB Migmaster 250.ESAB Migmaster 250 Hobart Ironman 230Multimatic 215TWECO Fabricator 181i & 211iHH125EZ - nice little fluxcore only unitMaxstar 150 STH - very nice
Reply:I have run the older miller and older lincoln class 250s as well as the esab 250.  My preference is the esab 250.
Reply:I would buy the Miller but the Lincoln will do just fine also.  6 of one half a dozen of another.
Reply:I got the Lincoln about 6 months ago. I'm real happy with it. But thinking the Miller is probally just fine alsoDaKK
Reply:Never had a problem with MM250-252. We have maybe 10-12 of them and run low range spray transfer on them all day. It's not exactly the highest class of welder but for general work they are fine. I like the 350p better but it's not really required for what we need to get done every day.
Reply:I will go as always with miller 252 because it has some advantages over the lincoln. 1.- preflow option2.- postflow option3.- spotweld4.- burnback and delay (stitch) timers5.- fan on demand (cost savings, energy plus maintenance)6.-plus service and consumables available virtually anywhere.And last but not least i love miller .Good huntingblue blood
Reply:My vote is for the ESAB migmaster as well. As an old welder once told me " once you try it you'll throw rocks at the other ones".  I have welded with both other units....The ESAB wins. I have had die hard miller 252 guys come try my welder, and as the last guy said after he lifted his hood, " I see what you mean now."  I also know that the local welding school has had problems with passing test plates with the 252's.   Not sure why, but no one has passed a plate on those units. They use xmt 304 migrunners to pass now, with no problems. Also have a couple of 350P machines that work okay. They have a Lincoln 255 that will pass as well. I know someone will say something about that. But, well, thats what the instructor told me, and he is a diehard miller fanatic.`ESAB has plenty of staying power.  They have good technology, and they have good support. Are they number one in the market? No.  But as we have learned in the auto industry, number one doesn't mean squat...Last edited by lugweld; 12-22-2009 at 06:42 PM.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:if you want to get a spoolgun go with miller
Reply:Originally Posted by lugweldMy vote is for the ESAB migmaster as well. As an old welder once told me " once you try it you'll throw rocks at the other ones".  I have welded with both other units....The ESAB wins. I have had die hard miller 252 guys come try my welder, and as the last guy said after he lifted his hood, " I see what you mean now."  I also know that the local welding school has had problems with passing test plates with the 252's.   Not sure why, but no one has passed a plate on those units. They use xmt 304 migrunners to pass now, with no problems. Also have a couple of 350P machines that work okay. They have a Lincoln 255 that will pass as well. I know someone will say something about that. But, well, thats what the instructor told me, and he is a diehard miller fanatic.`ESAB has plenty of staying power.  They have good technology, and they have good support. Are they number one in the market? No.  But as we have learned in the auto industry, number one doesn't mean squat...
Reply:I also have been asking this same question.  Last week I stop by my favroite welding supply shop and talk to guy's that fix these machines.  this is what I was told.  both are great machines, but miller's have more problems with there boards, not to say that lincolns never go out .  they do just not as many.  The reason .   lincoln are sealed or covered and stand vert.  miller has the boards that lie horz.  and  there open .   Dust can collect on them and burn out.    that's what I was told!I was bumbed to here this. I wanted to get a Miller, because I got old miller /mac 250 that I've had for almost 20 years and this has been an awsome welder . no problems. The reason I have a bad taste for lincolns is, I got 185 precision tig that I don't care for.  It may be me.  JUst can't make run good.  lets us know what you get.DayeLast edited by tigmusky; 12-22-2009 at 08:34 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by i4sillypwrI see no reason to post crap like that man. What some dude heard from some dude about how MM252s werent capable of producing a weld that would pass a bend test doesnt qualify as "reliable information". People will have something to say about that because it's obviously not true as some of us can probably testify too. One of my pet peeves are people that blame it on the machine.
Reply:alrighty then.
Reply:Dan, I noticed that you wrote in to point out both advantages for the Miller and the ESAB.  Although the Miller 251 touts individual settings for Run-in, Pre & post flow shielding gas, burnback, and spot stitch timer, it also produced too soft of an arc when compared to the ESAB 250.  As a beginner, how should this effect my decision on what machine to purchase?
Reply:Lugweld,I'll be the second to call BS to your comments about the MM 252.  To condemn a particular machine based on "I heard" or "I talked to the instructor" is pretty shortsighted.  Course most of us know what you consider to be a "great welder".  You are still getting paid by Neverlast arn't you.  Hardly what I'd consider a non-biased opinion.That's what I love about the internet.  Throw out a bunch of crap and some of it will stick to the wall.  A month from now there will be some new poster coming on the board stating "I was looking at a MM252, but I read that they won't pass a bend test".  Classy.As far as your "friend", the "instructor", the whole story just doesn't add up.  Your comment that "he's taken the units out of service" sounds like more BS.  Why didn't he call Miller and get a tech on site and figure out what the problem is.  I've dealt with Miller for over 25 years and your "little story" just doesn't add up.  No way would Miller just "wash their hands" of this problem, if in fact there really is an issue here.Back to the OP's original question.  Really comes down (between the two/Miller, Lincoln) to where you get the best deal and service.  Here in VA, Miller rules, and has, far and away the best service/support.  Old saying that, "If it's in the shop it better be blue.  If it's on your truck, it's better to be red."Last edited by SundownIII; 12-28-2009 at 11:22 AM.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:4130,Not Dan, but I have kept up with his feelings on the MM251 over the last few years.If you were to go back (here and on the Hobart board) you'd find that Dan traded his MM251 for the ESAB, not because he "didn't like the machine" but because the arc was somewhat different than that he experienced with the other machines he was using/used to.  He's also commented that, if it wasn't for this difference (ie he was using one machine) he'd probably still have the Miller.  Remember too, that Dan is one of the better miggers (check out his welds--look like they were done with a machine) out there.  Also can be one of the "more critical" regarding the fine points.  That's why, I suspect, he's involved in a lot of new product testing.What I guess I'm saying is that some of the "differences" Dan comments on, would be invisible/undetectable by 98% of the guys out there.I've owned a MM251 with 30A spoolgun for several years.  The machine has always performed at or above my expectations.  The MM252, has a couple more bells and whistles but I'd expect it to do a fine job for you.  The biggest complaint I had (originally) with mine was I didn't feel the M25 gun was up to the rest of the machine.  Replaced it with the Bernard and couldn't be happier.  Haven't used the Lincoln 255, but they'd be hard pressed to be a "better" machine than the Miller.You're talking about a "significant investment" in either machine.  Where do you feel the most comfortable with the "service after the sale".  In many years with Miller, I have nothing but good things to say about their products and the way they take care of their customers.PS.  Unlike some posters here, I have no ties (financial or otherwise) with any manufacturer.  I call it like I see it based on how I've been treated over many years of using welding equipment.Last edited by SundownIII; 12-28-2009 at 03:31 PM.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Hello all,I've welded for years. I used to weld on 18 wheeler trailers at a shop for a living. There were Millers and Lincolns in the shop. Each performed very well for me. I do believe it gets down to what we like the best. I truly believe all the big name companies make fine machines within their design limitations. I currently own an old Century AC cracker box that I've had for many years and will keep her till she gives up. She has served me well. I also recently purchased a new MM252 with a spool gun. This is my new toy. I'd love to have an old SA200...probably just to show off with my friends. The ESAB's interest me as well. I'd like to test weld with one. I used to own a HH135 that just quit one day. Don't know really what happened to it. It was still under warranty and I took it back and got an exchange on a new one...no questions asked. Excellent warranty. I will say this about Lincoln and Miller both. Prior to purchasing the MM252 I called Miller and Lincoln and asked a simple question. "Why should I buy your machine?" Both reps I talked to laid out the pro's and con's. Both were very agressive in selling their product. As for the warranty portion time will tell if I should have any problems with the MM252 which I hope I don't. Is Lincoln's customer service bad? My Century cracker box voltage lever broke. I called Lincoln and ordered a new one. Service wasn't bad. Got it in about a 2 weeks in the mail, which I expected due to it's age. The individual at Lincoln was easy to deal with. These are my experiences with the above machines and companies and I can't comment on others expierences. My only loyalty is to an American made product and to me comparing welders is like comparing a Ford truck to a Dodge truck. P.S. Ever bought a new vehicle without test driving it? It's hard to test drive a welder but maybe a local shop will let you. I guess it's the only way of seeing what you like the best.
Reply:Originally Posted by LBW&FWell ,I have owned Miller 250x, 252 both are great machines but now I have Lincoln 255XT and am very happy with the unit. Most of the new 255XT have the spot timer and some other options that Miller does not offer. The older Millers were better than the newer ones, i think because of "cooper" in the older machines!! I would highly recommend the Lincoln , but it all on what YOU want and what your DEALER can offer best price and sevice. I personally have ever had to send one in for any service but not all are like that. I would advise to stay away from Thermal Arc and Esab, have my reservations on those companies strength in this economy?!?!?!?! Lincoln and Miller are here to stay and Made In USA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! cant beat that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! God Bless the USA
Reply:Originally Posted by DesertRider33Thermal Arc and ESAB are not going anywhere, they've been around for decades and have very sizable market share in their primary markets.   I wouldn't hesitate to buy either of them if I wanted to.  I do own a Thermal Arc tig and it has been a great machine for me for about 4 years or so.  I would have preferred to have bought a Dynasty, but the Thermal Arc offered all the same capabilities as the Dynasty for ALOT less money and is a very highly respected machine, for good reason.  I don't regret my purchase at all and will likely upgrade to a bigger model Thermal Arc when the time comes.  Thermal Arc is part of Thermadyne, which also owns Thermal Dynamics, Victor, Arcair and Stoody, among others.  ESAB's line of mig machines grew out of the Linde migs from the 80's.  ESAB is a major player in the European welding and cutting equipment markets and has significant market share here in the US and other world markets as well.  As a welding instructor, I'm surprised you are not aware of these companies' history and presence in the welding industry, past and present???The Millermatic 250 and 250X don't have a great reputation as great machines, but many still like them and use them.  I have not owned or used either of them.  I have used all the Millermatics from the 35, 200, 180, 211, 210, 212, 251, 252 and I own the 175 and  350P.  They are all great machines in their respective classes and I would not hesitate to recommend any of them.  I own mostly blue machines because I like Miller and their customer service is excellent and they put out a truely great product.   As well, they are made in the US and that is important to me.  Another US made welding company is HTP.  They make good quality migs at very affordable prices and have great customer service as well.  I have owned one of their migs for nearly 20 years and it has been very reliable for me.  www.htpweld.comThe Lincolns I don't have much experience with but I'm sure they are great machines in their own right, especially the higher end Powermigs.  I wouldn't hesitate to buy any of the higher end machines if I wanted to.  I serioiusly considered the Powermig 350MP when I chose my MM350P.   The 350P was less expensive and I didn't need the tig/stick capability of the 350MP and I had extensive prior production welding experience with the 350P.  I do shy away from Lincoln's lower line of big box store portable migs cause they are not US made and I feel Miller makes a better product in the portable mig market.
Reply:Originally Posted by BLUE BLOODI will go as always with miller 252 because it has some advantages over the lincoln. 1.- preflow option2.- postflow option3.- spotweld4.- burnback and delay (stitch) timers5.- fan on demand (cost savings, energy plus maintenance)6.-plus service and consumables available virtually anywhere.And last but not least i love miller .Good huntingblue blood
Reply:Originally Posted by tigmuskyI also have been asking this same question.  Last week I stop by my favroite welding supply shop and talk to guy's that fix these machines.  this is what I was told.  both are great machines, but miller's have more problems with there boards, not to say that lincolns never go out .  they do just not as many.  The reason .   lincoln are sealed or covered and stand vert.  miller has the boards that lie horz.  and  there open .   Dust can collect on them and burn out.    that's what I was told!I was bumbed to here this. I wanted to get a Miller, because I got old miller /mac 250 that I've had for almost 20 years and this has been an awsome welder . no problems. The reason I have a bad taste for lincolns is, I got 185 precision tig that I don't care for.  It may be me.  JUst can't make run good.  lets us know what you get.Daye
Reply:I've used both the miller and the Lincoln 250 class migs... bought the Miller 251.  Nothing wrong with either machine though... in my opinion.  As far as the boards going bad, the board in my Lincoln died and had to be replaced.  Haven't had any trouble with the Miller.  Also, nothing wrong with the PT185... as long as you don't try to push it too hard.  It's capable of way more than "making coat hangers."  I would have gone bigger right off the bat though, knowing what I do now.Work HARDER, not smarter! ------------------------ Miller Bobcat 250Millermatic 251Lincoln Precision TIG 185Hypertherm PM 600Hobart 135 HandlerOxweld 400 FlameMaster
Reply:Here are 4 vids showing a Lincol 255 passing a 2g MIG BEND TEST.First Vid he talks about the Linconl 255c2nd, Third and Fourth, Vids he does the Welding and bend test. PASSESCan anyone find me a Miller?[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNA4r2X3nQ8[/ame][ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h59XK0qx_KA&feature=related[/ame][ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4buFBniMjX4&feature=related[/ame]Last edited by JohnnyWelder; 02-04-2010 at 11:46 PM.Originally Posted by JohnnyWelderCan anyone find me a Miller?
Reply:A 185 amp tig in any brand is a big mistake period. You should of picked up an Invertec V310.
Reply:4130      You say your at the beginning of you training, what type of welding are you planning on doing?  Your choices for a mig is kinda of simple, just flip a coin.  Either one should last you many years of service but is it the right machine for you, since you go by 4130.
Reply:Originally Posted by JohnnyWelderHPT welders are made in Italy.
Reply:Originally Posted by JohnnyWelderI was told the same thing by the AIRGAS mgr in my area. More probs with Millers. Great customer service though. A 185 amp tig in any brand is a big mistake period. You should of picked up an Invertec V310. Don't blame Lincoln. Those welders are only to make wire coat hangers. Dont make the mistake of selling your 185 and picking up a Syncrowave 200 either.