Fluxcore / paint results....

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As promised heres a couple of pics of what happens after you paint over  fluxcore welds..the last pic is the weld on the trailer lite bracket..now i dont know about you but would you want to re-do whatever body panel you welded with fluxcore when this starts to happen?  think about it..all that work..5000$ paint job down the drain..its your choice..do the right thing and use a gas mig on bodywork..you have been warned......zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:This proves again a picture is worth a thousand words. Good examples.
Reply:Originally Posted by lars66This proves again a picture is worth a thousand words. Good examples.
Reply:I don't quess I get it.  Was the flux removed before painting or was the flux painted over or are you saying the flux core filler react with the paint?
Reply:yup thats what he is sayingChuckASME Pressure Vessel welder
Reply:yup thats what he is saying
Reply:we welded it..ground them down..cleaned them good..painted..5 months later.... ...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Looks like to me somebody did not remove the flux prior to painting.  Paint won't hold to flour.I would use flux core much more than mig If it wasn't for having to remove the flux.  I can see spatter as being a problem for body work.  Also the extra step of having to remove the flux. Really curious if there is a problem with the filler?
Reply:What I'd like to see, and may well set up and do is a controlled test using ..2 different flux cored fillers2 different mig solid fillersbeads run about 12" long on say 1/8" plate run 2 beads of each at least 8 beads total.Prep the flux cored beads as follow ...1) grind down to almost nothing2) clean and prep as you normally wouldDo the same with the gas mig beads.Leave one bead of each UNTOUCHED ( means an extra bead )Once all the beads are prepped as a above clean the entire piece with acetone in prep for paint.Pirme and paint the entire piece ..... than go back and look at it over specific periods of time.This sounds like a lot of hard work, but it is similar to work I did for the US Air Force in testing plating/coating treatments on metal surfaces for them.In the end you will have a test sample that will prove verifiable results.I am in now way saying that Flux Core is good or bad, but can on really tell from on sample. ( ok there were several joints shown - but in reality this was one sample )I think the standard we tested to was MIL STD 810 , dealt with enviromental exposure.
Reply:thanks for the info i bought a flux/gas mig welder to learn with and was gonna use it on a car i amredoing it will all be airbrushed and yes i would be mad. i still dont understand why that happened but i dont care i will just say no to flux. thanks again
Reply:I haven't used flux core in about 2 years.  However, prior to that I did most of my iron work with flux core.  Today I look at a few of my old painted welds sign of wear that look like yours.  My welds are not even grinded (ground) and were only hand wire brushed off.I do lots of Ornamental iron.  One thing I used to do is wet paint each joint with a brush, prior to spray painting.I would have to really study the welds before concluding that Flux core doesn't work well.  I would expect more wear on each joint, if it were the filler.  The problems mostly appear to be the lower area where water would drip.  I'd look for  pin holes.
Reply:Originally Posted by tapwelderLooks like to me somebody did not remove the flux prior to painting.  Paint won't hold to flour.I would use flux core much more than mig If it wasn't for having to remove the flux.  I can see spatter as being a problem for body work.  Also the extra step of having to remove the flux. Really curious if there is a problem with the filler?
Reply:Originally Posted by gargoyle725thanks for the info i bought a flux/gas mig welder to learn with and was gonna use it on a car i amredoing it will all be airbrushed and yes i would be mad. i still dont understand why that happened but i dont care i will just say no to flux. thanks again
Reply:Well I am new to this and will take this issue under 'advisement'Recently we burned up one pound of flux core wire on many different 'coupons'We have gathered those coupons and will now prep them in various ways, then go on to clean, prime, paint, and EXPOSE.Once painted I will allow them to sit outside 'face up' and watch the results.Different methods for painting will be used as well. lacquer / enamel , primed, unprimed. It will be interesting to watch the results.I am now a man on a mission, who knows maybe I can enlist the aid of my old employer to do a little research and experiment in thier labs.Do you think this is worth doing?????My only regret is I no longer work at the lab where we did this type of testing as we had was to accelerate exposure.One question I do have ---- Here we are looking at Flux Core mig welds going bad, and you wish to blame the flux core wire. In arc ( stick ) welding, flux is also used. I have seen stick welded joints on equpiment painted over and in a years time no ill effect.I guess it has to do with the makeup of the flux.And one other thing, I do know that not all Flux Cored wire is the same .... chemical makeups of the filler are different, one brand in particular is Hobart. They make wire called Fabshield 21B and Fabshield 23. The LWS tried to sell me 23 telling me it was the same as 21B, however when you look at the specs the makeup of the filler is different. ( I was warned to avoid 23 by several people on these forums )
Reply:Let me comment on something here. WHO IN THE HELL HAS THAT AMERICAN FLAG HANGING THERE ALL TORN UP?????? GET IT TO THE COLOR GUARD AND REPLACE IT NOW!Lincoln Power Mig 210MP MIGLincoln Power Mig 350MP - MIG and Push-PullLincoln TIG 300-300Lincoln Hobby-Weld 110v  Thanks JLAMESCK TIG TORCH, gas diffuser, pyrex cupThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 101My brain
Reply:I am now a man on a mission, who knows maybe I can enlist the aid of my old employer to do a little research and experiment in thier labs.Do you think this is worth doing?????
Reply:Wow,  that happened in one night.  If flux is left in the weld, then that would make it an inferior weld, also...wouldn't it?  I thought the flux floated to the top.
Reply:tap..where did you read it happened in one night?this happened over the course of 5 months or so..the weld is still very sound.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Originally Posted by Joker11Let me comment on something here. WHO IN THE HELL HAS THAT AMERICAN FLAG HANGING THERE ALL TORN UP?????? GET IT TO THE COLOR GUARD AND REPLACE IT NOW!
Reply:QUICK QUESTION:Looking at the green tubing that was welded.IF flux core welds were at fault, the damage would present itself almost totally around the entire joint. However the damage shown seems to have presented itself in only lower areas of the joints.These areas are somtime harder to get into when cleaning, also if the joint is flushed with a cleaner such as acetone, foreign matter " flux paritcles " may in fact flow down to that point and be left behind as the acetone evaporates.Again, I suspect something in the process but then again, I have only those photos to judge from.Man this brings back memories of working in a Failure Analysis lab for a defense contractor. ( Westinghouse Defense - Baltimore, Maryland )
Reply:true..its not everywhere..but if i was restoring a antique?no way would i use a fluxcore machine on it like i stated before..look in any body shop..you will not find one and theres a reason for that......zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Well yeah when it comes to an antique, I agree.But those pics look like a roll cage on a jeep/truck.Also is it possible that the failure points are where the weld was started/ended?I recall reading somewhere that welding tubing shut with no weep/vent hole could cause some sort of problem. I gotta dig out the book and look it up.It is interesting to look into, would be good to know what really caused that problem at least so whoever did the work could prevent it in the future.Mistakes are what we learn from, hopefully someone else's.
Reply:The welds looked to me like they were on a fork lift cage. Am I close?
Reply:Nope, Keep guessing. You will never get it.Drivesector Hobart Handler 140Hobart Handler 180Ready Welder 2Hobart Air Force 400Airco Stinger 225Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most."OZZY"
Reply:Originally Posted by gimpyrobbThe welds looked to me like they were on a fork lift cage. Am I close?Not trying to change your convictions zap but if this were true for all flux-core wires wouldn't the structural guys(me)have noticed it by now? All those thousands of beams and columns I've welded, and painted, should be rusted hulks by now. They are not. I can show you some that have been in the elements 10 yrs. Anyway, just my thoughts.
Reply:Originally Posted by TEKNot trying to change your convictions zap but if this were true for all flux-core wires wouldn't the structural guys(me)have noticed it by now? All those thousands of beams and columns I've welded, and painted, should be rusted hulks by now. They are not. I can show you some that have been in the elements 10 yrs. Anyway, just my thoughts.
Reply:How about a home made rail-road-ster?!
Reply:Haha! I am dumb, but catch on quick when given the right direction.
Reply:On the roll cage, It looks to me like that was many passes with the welder. Did you clean it after each pass?
Reply:Originally Posted by TPnTXOn the roll cage, It looks to me like that was many passes with the welder. Did you clean it after each pass?
Reply:I have burned about a bazillion (Okay, only a couple thousand) pounds of flux cored wire. When the job requires any kind of finish coating, it is usually a two-part marine epoxy or a hot stick galvanized finish. Niether of those showed any of the signs the photos do. BUT... on equipment and such repaired around the yards, there are some signs of rust. This was due to incomplete paint coverage allowing rust to form in areas close to and sometimes behind the paint. If the welded part is subjected to a lot of stresses or flexing, sometimes the paint will chip and crack.I haven't ever seen the whitish dusty stuff in the photos after painting. I work in a salt water environment so rust abatement is a part of life here. I get best results from cleaning thoroughly with a wire wheel and painting the parts while they are still warm (not hot).
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterno..why bother?i dont know anyone that cleans every weld after every pass......zap!
Reply:ZapPHP Code:tap..wheredidyoureadithappenedinonenight?I misinterpreted your second post.  I thought you were saying you painted it 5 months after cleaning.  After rereading it is see it could (must) mean after 5 month look what happened.  Then later you said It streaks when it rains out (last night).PHP Code:maybeitsthepaintthatturnstopowder...andwhenitrainsout(lastnight)itrunsandstreaksthe"powderIn any case something has got to get in in order for something to come out.  Perhaps moisture is coming out of the tubing.  I would expect more damage to the paint if it were the weld.
Reply:Uh... I clean every weld after every pass.... It is necessary with flux cored wire.
Reply:IMHOI just think its not worth the chance on a auto restoration..for the floors and stuff well ok.. but never on the outside body panels..thats just my thoughts......zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Aren't the legitimate reasons not to use fluxcore on bodywork enough?  It burns hotter than gas shielded and it bubbles when you try to do a quick tack?
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterno..why bother?i dont know anyone that cleans every weld after every pass......zap!
Reply:I run a wire wheel over every pass. Some welds on things will require up to 11 or 12 passes. If you don't clean your weld your asking for trouble when the man with the radioactive sticker on his truck shows up. Also if you don't clean your weld it could bleed whitish powder out of it when it weathers.
Reply:i have to clean my welds after each pass it's code for what i doChuckASME Pressure Vessel welder
Reply:Your trying to figure out why your flux welded joints can't be painted or P-coated and it looks to me like the roll cage was welded using multiple passes. If you don't clean the slag off with each pass, just like stick welding your gonna have pockets of slag left which will compromise a paint job.Maybe I missed something...?(looked at the pics again....your painting over the slag is what it looks like)Last edited by TPnTX; 10-25-2006 at 08:46 AM.
Reply:Originally Posted by TPnTXYour trying to figure out why your flux welded joints can't be painted or P-coated and it looks to me like the roll cage was welded using multiple passes. If you don't clean the slag off with each pass, just like stick welding your gonna have pockets of slag left which will compromise a paint job.Maybe I missed something...?(looked at the pics again....your painting over the slag is what it looks like)
Reply:are we talking about gasless flux core or dual sheild (ie gas and flux)i would not waste my time with gasless.but dual sheild is some of the cleanestwelding if done right.peels off just like stick.
Reply:Originally Posted by harcosparkyWell yeah when it comes to an antique, I agree.But those pics look like a roll cage on a jeep/truck.Also is it possible that the failure points are where the weld was started/ended?I recall reading somewhere that welding tubing shut with no weep/vent hole could cause some sort of problem. I gotta dig out the book and look it up.It is interesting to look into, would be good to know what really caused that problem at least so whoever did the work could prevent it in the future.Mistakes are what we learn from, hopefully someone else's.
Reply:OK ... so after looking at the responses both pro and con for Flux Core let me ask this.QUESTION: If Gasless Flux Core is so bad and failure prone as some would like to indicate, why is it made and sold? TEST IN PROGRESS --->I have welded several coupons with gasless flux core, and cleaned the welds properly - all coupons have been finished with various finishes - lacquer - enamel - 2 part epoxy - powder coat.All were welded with three passes, cleaned between passes and are currently sitting in a highly corrosive atmosphere --> salt spray - high humidity - high temperature. This atmospheric chamber is used to simulate accelerated life exposure of materials to a very corrosive marine enviroment.
Reply:in my workshop we have a big debate weather one is better than other between MMAW,GMAW,FCAW,(gas & gasless). the older workers standbehind MMAW,and say anything else dose not stack up. any mig weldingis just a form of soldering and only monkeys should use it.where as the younger lads swear by GMAW and FCAW. and tell the older lads to throwaway them grandad sticks.this can get quite heated and a few bottom lipsstick out.but at the end of the day each has its own place.Last edited by kiwiwelder; 10-25-2006 at 11:13 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by zapster...look in any body shop..you will not find one [FCAW] and theres a reason for that......zap!
Reply:Originally Posted by harcosparkyOK ... so after looking at the responses both pro and con for Flux Core let me ask this.QUESTION: If Gasless Flux Core is so bad and failure prone as some would like to indicate, why is it made and sold? TEST IN PROGRESS --->I have welded several coupons with gasless flux core, and cleaned the welds properly - all coupons have been finished with various finishes - lacquer - enamel - 2 part epoxy - powder coat.All were welded with three passes, cleaned between passes and are currently sitting in a highly corrosive atmosphere --> salt spray - high humidity - high temperature. This atmospheric chamber is used to simulate accelerated life exposure of materials to a very corrosive marine enviroment.
Reply:Originally Posted by tapwelderWow,  that happened in one night.  If flux is left in the weld, then that would make it an inferior weld, also...wouldn't it?  I thought the flux floated to the top.
Reply:Doesn't the flux, pool on the top of the weld after melting, once sufficient heat has been applied, and then harden up so it can be chipped off. After that the weld should be pretty clean, similar to stick welding (as stated before).