which TIG welder

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Hey guys, im new hereIm looking at buying a TIG welder.  Don't know which one to buy, and dont want to get a cheapo one from harbor freight. so I have around 700 to spend. I will be using it for welding up exhausts and other automotive parts.Could you guys give me a few recommendationsThanks -Dan
Reply:E V E R L A S T........they have their own section at the bottom        thermal arc 252i  -  millermatic 350P -   miller XMT, cp300ts, 30a 22a feeders, buttload of other millers, handfull of lincolns, couple of esabs  -   Hypertherm 1250 G3
Reply:I think the Harbor Freight one are not much different then any other off shore made one.If you only want to spend 700 which wont get you much, check all the off shore guys and and who you think will do you the best.Miller DVI2Lincoln Precision Tig 225Thermodynamics Cutmaster 38Everything else needed.
Reply:Look for a used one. Or, be smart, and save more money. When you have $1100, you can go hunting.And then, after so much work...... you have it in your hand, and you look over to your side...... and the runner has run off. Leaving you holding the prize, wondering when the runner will return.
Reply:You should be able to find a used Miller Maxstar 150 in the price you are looking for. But Rojo is right, save a little more because you are almost there.UA Local 598
Reply:I also think you should save up some more.  I just bought the Miller Diversion 165 for about $1,250. Very nice machine for the money and you will also be able to Tig Aluminum. And very portable at only 50 lbs.Brian Hillswww.budgetweldingllc.comBudget Welding LLC
Reply:Originally Posted by BudgetWeldingI also think you should save up some more.  I just bought the Miller Diversion 165 for about $1,250. Very nice machine for the money and you will also be able to Tig Aluminum. And very portable at only 50 lbs.
Reply:Funny to read the recommendations here.  Seems that there is a trend.The experienced guys recommend going with an established US manufactured brand, even if you have to go to the used market because of available funds.The guys who don't have a clue about tig welding in the first place, recommend going with Chinese junk (Everlast/Longivity).  You can be assured they'll be right there for you when you have questions about how the machine operates/or not.  Right.OP clearly stated he wasn't interested in buying Chinese junk.  At least, buying from HF, you have a local supplier you can return the machine to (within reason) when it's DOA.  Not the case with the aforementioned "marketers".If there was ever a case of "you get what you pay for", it's welding machines.  Make no mistake about that.  Quality/reliability/parts availability/support all cost money.It's one thing to buy a coffee pot from China (I personally use the Bunn).  When the thing breaks, you throw it away and go by 7/11 and get a cup.  Not the case with welding machines.The Diversion recommendation makes a lot of sense.  Here's an entry level tig machine, built and supported by a US company, that will do what you need done, and can be assured that, if you have a problem down the road, there will be a company standing behind their equipment.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Man you just HATE china don't you.  To the OP look at the welding tips and tricks website.  He is reviewing a everlast mig welder with youtube videos.   It is about the same as the longevity welder but a bit more expensive.  They are both made over seas and do what they are intended to do for the hobbyist.  You have to do your research but you can't expect someone that welds for a living to endorse a cheaper made product.  I work on motors for money and I don't have any Stanley, or popular mechanic tools but that don't mean that they won't do what the occasional mechanic wants.
Reply:Originally Posted by tigfanMan you just HATE china don't you.  To the OP look at the welding tips and tricks website.  He is reviewing a everlast mig welder with youtube videos.   It is about the same as the longevity welder but a bit more expensive.  They are both made over seas and do what they are intended to do for the hobbyist.  You have to do your research but you can't expect someone that welds for a living to endorse a cheaper made product.  I work on motors for money and I don't have any Stanley, or popular mechanic tools but that don't mean that they won't do what the occasional mechanic wants.
Reply:OK there Mr. TIGFAN.How long you been tig welding?How many tig welders have you ever used?You ever been to China?  I have, several times.You ever been to Taiwan (formerly Formosa)?  I have, several times.China, should it continue at the current pace, will soon be the "garbage dump" of the civilized world.  Environmental constraints be damned.I'm not a big fan of organized labor, but, more often than not, China's "working environment" would put the "sweat shops of this country in the 20's" to shame.China engineers/designs very little.  Most items are reverse engineered to be built more cheaply.  No consideration for patent infringement etc, etc.  Little regard for product safety.  If you don't understand what I'm talking about, maybe I can interest you in a couple boatloads of Chinese drywall.  If you're not a builder, maybe I can interest you in some lead based painted toys to give your kids.  Or, better yet, how about some contaminated baby food.  If you'd like, I'll go on.Buying a welder from China is like buying a box of Cracker Jacks. You never know what kind of toy you're getting in the box.In so far as our friends at Neverlast and Nolongivity.  They are nothing but retailers at the end of the supply chain.  They don't "engineer" the machines.  They don't design the machines.  They don't have welding engineer's, electrical engineers, safety engineers, etc on their payroll.  Heck, in one case, one of the company's cannot even design/build a welding table in line with accepted industy standards.What they can do, and do very well, is make outlandish claims about what their machines are capable of.  For two years (or more) they suppressed all negative comments made on this board regarding their machines.  They provide "incentives" for positive comments.  The list goes on and on.If you follow the "evolution" of their products (difficult, because they change nearly weekly) you'll see that the machine they sold a year ago is no longer available.  It's been replaced by a "better" unit.  What they don't tell the consumer, is that they were forced to change because the previous model didn't hold up.  But now, the new model solves all the problems.  Yea, right.  You want to try getting replacement parts for a two year old welder.  Sorry, we don't use that manufacturer any longer.  We found a better (read cheaper) one.You ever check out the "resale value" of a used Chinese welder?  Not much, if you can even find someone to take it off your hands.Rojo's right though.  If you're just a "hobbiest welder" who's probably never going to put forth the effort to "master" the trade, maybe a throwaway welder is just the ticket for you.Some will say that this post is insulting.  I'll tell you what's insulting.  When I go to one of their homepages (the importers) and I read "Just as good as the big names and 1/3 the price".  That, my friend, is insulting my intelligence.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:I must say that I agree with many of SundownIII's comments above, and I'd like to add a bit more as follows:Manufacturing in the U.S. and here in Canada has taken a big hit the passed 10 years or so, here in Toronto many of our manufacturing companies have closed up shop, as people flock to the cheaper products from overseas.Many bitch about Walmart and what they are doing to our retail businesse here, and yet they flock to Walmart to save a few bucks.  Of course, many don't have a lot of money to begin with so it helps, however a lot of folks can afford domestic but choose not too.Some say you can't buy good domestic products at a competitive price anymore, or at all, no wonder.There's free trade, and there's fair trade; we enjoy a much better life style here in North America (U.S. and Canada) than in the far east, AND THAT COSTS MONEY.  If we want to keep our lifestyle, then maybe we need to focus more on fair trade going forward.We are creative nations, we've built these great countries from the wilderness, we've put men on the moon and put a space station in the heavens (yes, Canada is playing a part here), these countries and lifestyles we enjoy are worth saving.That's why I paid more and bought a Lincoln welder, why I buy local, even if it costs a bit more, because I like to think I see the big picture.Regards to all.Working on cars and bikes is my hobby, learning to weld the pieces together is my quest.
Reply:Watch Craigslist for a Miller Diversion (aluminum capable) or a Miller Maxtar (no aluminum).  Sometimes you will find these little TIGers with very little usage because the original owner thought TIGing would be easily and found out otherwise.  If you get frustrated, you could put it back on Craigslist stating: "Very low hours" or "I use MIG more than TIG and simply don't need this welder". In fact, you might be able to get back what you paid for it should you decide to sell it.
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIIOK there Mr. TIGFAN.How long you been tig welding?How many tig welders have you ever used?You ever been to China?  I have, several times.You ever been to Taiwan (formerly Formosa)?  I have, several times.China, should it continue at the current pace, will soon be the "garbage dump" of the civilized world.  Environmental constraints be damned.I'm not a big fan of organized labor, but, more often than not, China's "working environment" would put the "sweat shops of this country in the 20's" to shame.China engineers/designs very little.  Most items are reverse engineered to be built more cheaply.  No consideration for patent infringement etc, etc.  Little regard for product safety.  If you don't understand what I'm talking about, maybe I can interest you in a couple boatloads of Chinese drywall.  If you're not a builder, maybe I can interest you in some lead based painted toys to give your kids.  Or, better yet, how about some contaminated baby food.  If you'd like, I'll go on.Buying a welder from China is like buying a box of Cracker Jacks. You never know what kind of toy you're getting in the box.In so far as our friends at Neverlast and Nolongivity.  They are nothing but retailers at the end of the supply chain.  They don't "engineer" the machines.  They don't design the machines.  They don't have welding engineer's, electrical engineers, safety engineers, etc on their payroll.  Heck, in one case, one of the company's cannot even design/build a welding table in line with accepted industy standards.What they can do, and do very well, is make outlandish claims about what their machines are capable of.  For two years (or more) they suppressed all negative comments made on this board regarding their machines.  They provide "incentives" for positive comments.  The list goes on and on.If you follow the "evolution" of their products (difficult, because they change nearly weekly) you'll see that the machine they sold a year ago is no longer available.  It's been replaced by a "better" unit.  What they don't tell the consumer, is that they were forced to change because the previous model didn't hold up.  But now, the new model solves all the problems.  Yea, right.  You want to try getting replacement parts for a two year old welder.  Sorry, we don't use that manufacturer any longer.  We found a better (read cheaper) one.You ever check out the "resale value" of a used Chinese welder?  Not much, if you can even find someone to take it off your hands.Rojo's right though.  If you're just a "hobbiest welder" who's probably never going to put forth the effort to "master" the trade, maybe a throwaway welder is just the ticket for you.Some will say that this post is insulting.  I'll tell you what's insulting.  When I go to one of their homepages (the importers) and I read "Just as good as the big names and 1/3 the price".  That, my friend, is insulting my intelligence.
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIIThe Diversion recommendation makes a lot of sense.  Here's an entry level tig machine, built and supported by a US company, that will do what you need done, and can be assured that, if you have a problem down the road, there will be a company standing behind their equipment.
Reply:I guess I can consider myself a reliable expert in all German products since I been there a few times.
Reply:I was young and stupid years ago when I bought my 1st mig. I bought into the sales hype that the import was just as good as the Miller I was looking at also. "Oh yeah, we keep all the parts in stock should you ever have a problem..." Yeah, thats why when it broke after 3 years and probably less than 50 hrs of hobbyist welding I couldn't find a simple part to fix it, or ant place willing to even attempt to repair it. I've gotten way more complex parts for older Miller machines no problem since then.Most "pro's" would list me as a "Hobby guy" with my tig, yet when I looked for a machine to learn on, it was a quality name brand machine. The $2K I paid for my Syncro 200 wasn't cheap, yet it was a good investment towards the future. A machine that will do both steel and alum, that I won't quickly outgrow, that was reasonably priced and will hold most of it's value when I choose to upgrade sometime in the future to a Dynasty or other inverter machine.Dan, I think the Maxstars are a great choice as a starter machine. I think the Diversions a bit underpowered for alum and the lack of stick as an option, causes me to shy away from it a bit, but I see it as a decent machine for some. I think the option of a gently used Syncro 180/200 or a TA 185 would be a good choice. I've seen several over the last few months in the $1300 range. Some of the big older Millers and Lincoln tigs can be had for a steal if you have the 60-100 amp input on 220v that many require. The up side is that most will run AC/DC to 300amps and often come with coolers for half your budget. Most are easily serviced by many places and most parts are readily available if there should be a problem.You might PM Steve, (7A749) here and see what rebuilt tigs he's got right now. I know he's helped out several guys here with some nice deals on rebuilds both for tig's and wire feeders..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:i'm the one that mentiond' everlast.  did'nt know this was a supremacy thread. I've been on the "red team" since 93 i guess. bought this Squarewave because of how "Low" it would go 12amps-175. self employd workin' with metals , it's served me well through dozens of jobs yearly for about 17 years . gaind' knowledge pre this working/painting for a fab. shop that welded primarily chromoly , aluminum , titanium. I dont know if that counts as "experience". well i guess i remember all those machines that seemed to have the infinate settings , adjustments and features.and witha $5000 plus price tag for machines of that calibur ,  the little "Green" everlast with all the bells and whistles of those 5k machines , seem fun to say the least. Guess i was thinking of myself , not the kid in the OP.  - my problem with buying Used , and why did'nt any of u Pros up there mention this. Alot of these used machines are run into their Duty Cycles so much that they dont even weld the same anymore.but whatda i know. Attached Images        thermal arc 252i  -  millermatic 350P -   miller XMT, cp300ts, 30a 22a feeders, buttload of other millers, handfull of lincolns, couple of esabs  -   Hypertherm 1250 G3
Reply:I see alot of people are recomending inverters. But the Op doesn't specify inverter machines. A little more info about his workspace and intended use could save him some money. I use inverters because I like to be portable, and because I don't have alot of space in my garage. But if I ever get my shop up and going I will probably invest in a good ol Syncrowave. Might be a good investment for the OP. Good solid machine, and great resale value if tig doesn't work out for him. Just my .02. But if he's set on an inverter, I personally prefer Thermal Arc. They seem as nice to me as the reds or blues I've used, but usualy cost a little less.
Reply:Ok guys, thanks for all the info.I'm not completely new to TIG welding, I have welded at work a few times. I just have never bought one, and was looking for some recommendation.  The things the that are most important to me are quality, reliability and the ability to weld aluminium. So I will be on a look out for a used Miller Diversion. New question:how many hours is too high?
Reply:Make sure to buy cheep Chink Junk so  Lug can support his family. The rest of America be damned.
Reply:Originally Posted by saabaru05Ok guys, thanks for all the info.I'm not completely new to TIG welding, I have welded at work a few times. I just have never bought one, and was looking for some recommendation.  The things the that are most important to me are quality, reliability and the ability to weld aluminium. So I will be on a look out for a used Miller Diversion. New question:how many hours is too high?
Reply:One more idea.  Stay in touch with your local welding shop to see if they have any demo units they are willing to sell.  This is how I bought my TIG welder.  I bought a welder that for all intensive purposes was brand new, but at a significant discount.Lincoln Precision TIG 225Hobart Handler 175
Reply:FWIW, I've got a 30 year old Miller Dialarc 250HF, and I wouldn't trade it for ANY brand new import. You can probably pick one up for less than $1000, and it will outlast any new Chinese crap out there. As tired as the phrase is, you get what you pay for.Miller Thunderbolt AC/DC (Sold)Miller Dialarc 250HFMiller MM251Miller MM200 (Sold)Miller MM130Miller Spot WelderVictor O/A rigMiller Spoolmatic 1 (Sold)