Welding VS Machining

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Hey guys :-)Im a sophomore in high school... A few miles from our school is a tech center, kind of a community collage type deal.Next year, when im a junior, I can go there for half the day instead of sitting through boring classes...I went there today to go look things over, and they have awesome welding and machining programs...I was really impressed by both of them. Almost all the machining graduates have jobs lined up before they walk out the door. Usually the welders do too, but if they dont, they dont have to wait long.I met the welding instructor, and he let me try tig welding for the first time... And then mig and "smaw"... I told him i was really amateur, but i had done it before, and he looked at my stick welds and believed me (People lie about that?)...Anyway, everyone there seems really friendly, and the teachers actually know what there talking about, and have a passion for it. The students are great, its not like my high school even tho there all students there, no one talks about who slept with who, who drank what, and how drunk will i be on Friday night, which is a great change for me. I dont even care about the last two. lol. Everyones really friendly there, and seems to like and care about what they do.But heres the problem...I can only take one. I can go back and take more, but just not next year.Which means i have to decide.The advantages i see with welding are:-Looks easier-$16, $17 right out of school-No math-No classroom-Really fun -Learn at your own paceThe advantages i see with Machining are:-Looks like a challenge-Job right out of school. If i do well.-Has math, which i can improve onHowever:-8 weeks of classes-Alot more challenging-looks boring after you learn about it-More demanding-More precise (1/40 the thickness of a sheet of paper)-All guys-The Chinese can do it too. For less. Way less.Im just trying to weigh my options. I need to decide on two things (Already got that far), and i need to have a preference between the two by Monday. Fun.This is really nerve wracking for me, its a two year commitment.Im just wondering, am i overlooking anything?? I really love to weld... Actually, its my favorite part of whatever im working on...I have no idea what machining would be like... I dont know anything about it, but it looks cool... When i visited, they were building a robot...What would you do?? What would you choose, and why?? I know alot of you guys are full time welders... Would you go back and do it again?? Why or why not??Thanks everyone
Reply:I know this is a welding forum, But i would recommend Machining. It will serve you better down the line, Learn it now while it's so accessable to you. You can pick up welding later. From Machining you can move on to CNC, and keep yourself marketable. Sadly, there are plenty of welders for hire, and I would reccomend keeping welding as a fun hobby or a side income. Trust me, it is tempting to have only fun in highschool, but I definately regret not taking advantage of all the opportunities offered to me for free or little money. Now, I have no time and it wil cost me $300 a class.....
Reply:Machining you'll always be working under a roof and inside of 4 walls and most shops it will be heated.Working inside might not mean much now but when you get a few surgeries under you belt and start dealing with arthritis working outside in the winter will suck.Whatever has the best job market it will be different 10 years from now when you got kids and a morgage.If you're going to do much in machining you're not going to be working to 1/40" you'll be more likely working to 5/10000"In many shops you'll invest much more money in personal tools in machining. Some shop will supply most everything as part of their ISO certification.Tough as nails and damn near as smart
Reply:It is hard not to agree with the pros of machining per the comments above, however there is and will be a shortage of welders over the next several years in the US. With the recent approvals of several nuclear power generators there will be some big buck welding jobs on the horizon.ScottLast edited by Rojodiablo; 03-04-2010 at 05:44 PM.
Reply:Why not kick everyone in the butt and learn both?Jack OlsenMy garage website
Reply:Originally Posted by Scott HightowerI With the recent approvals of several nuclear power generators there will be some big buck welding jobs on the horizon.Scott
Reply:Take both, I am an engine machinist and weldor, it goes hand in hand. A machinist that can weld is more valuable than just a machinist -as well as the weldor that can machine is more valuable than just a weldor.Peter
Reply:Choose a field (welding or machining or something else) that caters to your interest and talents.  If you have a "mechanical mind" that understands geometry and math, you might enjoy either field you mentioned.Lawyers are generally good at the Language arts (written and spoken).  CPA's and engineers are good at math.  A person will never find happiness trying to force fit themselves into a career that doesn't suit their natural talents.  Ask yourself, 1."What areas in high school require the most and least effort for you?"  You will generally find that one or two subjects come easier to you than others.Whether you choose welding, machining or being a surgeon, don't rule in/out an occupation solely based on how long it takes to achieve the certification/degree.  Choose a field that you will enjoy and one that has a stable job market.  You will most likely be working for many, many, many years.  REALITY:  Life gets more expensive every year.  You get older every year.  The more you make, the easier your life will be (generalization).  If you enjoy what you do, and are very good at it, generally, the money will follow (provided there is a market).Good luck.Last edited by joedirt1966; 02-27-2010 at 04:15 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by castweldTake both, I am an engine machinist and weldor, it goes hand in hand. A machinist that can weld is more valuable than just a machinist -as well as the weldor that can machine is more valuable than just a weldor.Peter
Reply:Take both.  Figure out which one is more expensive and take it first while you're in highschool.  The school pays for it right?  Then when you graduate and have to foot the bill, take the second one.  As others have said, they go hand in hand.My name's not Jim....
Reply:Learning both is a great idea.  Personally I could never be a machinist, it would bore the hell out of me.  Especially a CNC operator.  I would like to take some time to learn operations of turret mills and engine lathes as a way to do some more quick fixturing or part work myself as needed.
Reply:i worked at a place with  a lot of machinists and it seemed kinda boring and dull, babysitting a machine all day standing around, atleast with welding your constantly working or doing something instead of watching a machine work
Reply:Lanse,I’ve been a machinist for almost 40 years and done my share of welding, cutting and brazing along the way.  The two are closely associated if you work as a repair machinist as apposed to a production machinist (which can be boring, but pays well).  From my experience, the choice is clear.  If you become a welder, your chances of learning machining along the way are slim.  If you become a machinist (particularly if you work maintenance or R&D) almost any employer would be very willing to support your desire to learn welding.  By becoming a machinist you demonstrate your ability to handle sophisticated mechanical concepts and work with precision. As a machinist, I’ve had numerous opportunities to become trained in all manner of additional mechanical and fabrication skills.Today I’m a Nuclear Systems Analyst with nothing more than a high school diploma, machinist certification and 40 years of industrial prototyping and an accumulated set of maintenance machine shop skills.  I seriously doubt I’d be where I am if I began as a welder.  Not that welding isn’t a great and fulfilling trade, but when compared to machining, I think it has definite limitations.Go for the challenging path... see where your potential can take you.Harris O/A Gas, Lincoln PowerMig 140c, CE A/C 180 stickNC Whisper Deluxe Gas Forge, Centaur Coal ForgeNN Scroll Bender, Karl Hoop BenderJHM Anvil
Reply:Both are great skills and I would advise you to learn them both.Don't learn them because I can get blah blah and hour. Learn them in the intent to build a product yourself.That is a goal that should be in your future.
Reply:No no no no.........you're getting the two confused.....there's a  " machine operator " who does'nt make much  , does'nt know much , pushes go and stop like a monkey....then there's the  "  Machinist  "  whom has to know how to do elaborate set ups with Metal Cutting Machines ,a Mill a Lathe , Rotary tables , intricate set-ups with 123 blocks , parallels , height gauges , calipers , micrometers , dial indicators , follow specs. blueprints etc.,Machinist and Machine Operator.................Huge Difference.Last edited by woi2ld; 02-27-2010 at 11:47 PM.        thermal arc 252i  -  millermatic 350P -   miller XMT, cp300ts, 30a 22a feeders, buttload of other millers, handfull of lincolns, couple of esabs  -   Hypertherm 1250 G3
Reply:I will go on the side of machinist. really LEARNING how to be a machinist requires access to the equipment and a good instructional program. There is a big difference between a machinist and a machine operator. Welding isn't easier. It is different. You still need guidance and instruction to become good, but it is easier to set yourself up to improve on your own. You can learn a lot with limited formal instruction from limited time with a good welder. Not real practical with machining.The best of both worlds is to become proficient in both fields, as they overlap a LOT. For example: one company I deal with at work does nothing but shaft journals (bearing surfaces on shafts). We deal with them for weld buildup on worn shafts and machining back down. Precision work, a lot of set up, a lot of variety in the jobs, a lot of creativity needed-- everything from turbine rotors for power generation to cranks for marine engines (you ever seen a 60ft crankshaft?) to axles for steam locomotives. They reconfigure and modify the  equipment as needed for the job. A lot of the weld is automatic, but some manual. Heat control is critical. Distortion is a no-no. Some in shop work and some site work. All of the people I have met from the company love their jobs.
Reply:Sad to say, most of the maching has moved overseas.What's left is CNC if the shop hasn't been sent to China, lock stock and barrel.There's two kinds of machinists.The manual kind, and the CNC kind.  CNC mostly involves changing out stock in the machine, and sitting there watching it being worked.  Had a buddy who did that, he's unemployed now.  Dude was very good at setting up programs, and debugging them, but once the data was saved, goodbye Charlie.  They hired a trained monkey to replace him.Manual machining is almost a lost art.  One of a kind prototype parts, or repair parts, on old machines.  You have to be able to do setup work.  These jobs are pretty rare nowdays.  And those jobs require a multi skill set.  Machining, welding, wrenching, working knowledge of the machine being repaired............Get the most training you can, maybe do something that's your favorite, and take your lumps.  A career focused on maintaining stuff would be your best bet, industrial America is dead."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:i've had the opportunity to work for a massive job shop that toold for Loral , Lockheed , Boeing and Nasa aerospace places. headed tha paint dept. for a few years and i can tell ya that "BridgePort Alley"  still does exist , was still alive , maybe not well , but still necessary manual maching ......i witnessed beautiful , unthinkable amazing things by incredible talent . and if the alley rowes of bridgeports did'nt set u at awe .  they were surrounded by monsters like Bertheiz Shibaura 50-90 HP machines with 300 inches of swing , toshiba , Fadal , hitachi-Seiki CNC Axis Milling machines the size of Buses...        thermal arc 252i  -  millermatic 350P -   miller XMT, cp300ts, 30a 22a feeders, buttload of other millers, handfull of lincolns, couple of esabs  -   Hypertherm 1250 G3
Reply:Well Lanse, if you'll tolerate an old fart a bit, and do a little work based on what I tell you, I have a hunch I know what your decision will be.  I went thru a situation similar to yours with my grandson about 15 years ago, and watched him make a boatload of screwups.  Today he works makin 10 bucks an hour and has to kiss the boss's butt every day to keep working.First, you pretty much said Math ain't your strong suit.  Honestly, you never really learned much math if you went to Public Schools, but that's a whole other discussion.  That puts you at a disadvantage when it comes to formal machine shop training.Second, you went to what I call a salesman's field day.  The instructors shined you and every other prospect coming through the door because frankly their continued employment is in danger due to changing educational spending.  They didn't tell you a lot of things, beginning with the reality they get paid because your body is sitting in the class, and it doesn't much matter to them how well you do.  Both crafts you mention must be learned, and learning takes time.  Your program sounds a lot like what we call BOCES here, and the afternoon session is about 2 hours and 20 minutes.  Honestly, figure 2 hours given all the administrative time wasted and cleanup of the shop.  You'll have about 180 days of class per year, that works out to 360 hours of class time.  Two years comes up being about 720 hours of class time, actually less when all the distractions are figured in.  Roughly speaking, that comes up about 18 weeks of working a 40 hour week, but the way it's split up I'd spitball the learning experience being equal to about 10 weeks in the work or apprentice situation.That is NOT much time to learn anything in the world of trades.  It certainly isn't sufficient time to learn to run a lathe and a mill.  It is sufficient time to pick up some basic welding knowledge if you go there to learn.You also need to factor in BOCES programs while they can offer a lot often wind up dumping grounds for problem students Districts don't want to keep in house.  I see it here, and since the BOCES gets paid per body per day, they keep the dicheads your post indicates you want to get away from.As to the promised jobs, long lines of employers waiting at the door with the keys to your new pickup truck just waiting to sign you up, BULLSH!T!  This story has been being told since the 1950s, and it wasn't close to true then.  Yes, the good instructors in a BOCES program will have contacts in the real world of employment and they will place a handfull of kids for each instructor, and the rest of the class will graduate to sit on the park bench playing with themselves.  Again, this is salesmanship, not much different from the ad for Everest Institute playing on TV.  Also, the starting pay they talked about ain't going to happen in 2010 or 2012 when you'll graduate.  Remember, for every dollar an employer pays you you must generate income to the employer of about $1.80 so the shop door can stay open.  Employers like Kodak who once brought in a lot of BOCES students no longer take any, and I'll bet your area is the same given the state of the auto industry.That's not to discourage you, it is just reality you'll see in 2 years.Manual machining is a trade that is going away, and believe me until you have actually seen what a manual machinist does for 8 hours a day you have no idea if you want to be in that trade.  I sure as hell don't.  A weldor has a lot more freedom unless he's working production in a factory.Machining is far too complex of a skillset to learn in the actual class time available, especially if there are a couple pinheads in the class.You already understand the third world supply situation, and its going to get worse for a few years to come, result, a lot of already trained machine operators are looking for work. There sure isn't time to learn CNC beyond stick the bar on this feeder and punch this button.Take a sheet of paper and list all the things the "instructors" told you.  Then pencil out all the things you cannot prove to a high certainty, such as prospective pay.  I' bet 10 bucks none of those instructors furnished you with a list of 10 of their students with phone numbers so you could verify what you were told.  All in all, knowing what I do, I'd recommend you sign up for the welding program.  It has a built in higher degree of self learning which you can handle at your point in life.  It's also a harder class for pinheads to screw up if they don't want to learn.  NOW, don't get the feeling just because you signed up you'll learn it all.  You'll still be taking academics back at your home school, and now is a damn good time to knuckle down on the math situation.  It may not seem like it to you, but this is the end of the time when learning will be easy and free.  You'll understand that in about 8 years.Also, while you are at the BOCES school, advantage yourself of all the opportunities sitting waiting for you.  Ask for a pass or whatever to go over to machine shop and look around at what actually happens there when they aren't bringing new bodies in the door.  If you'll be riding a bus to and from the afternoon session, get to know the people taking other shops and listen carefully to what they talk about.  That will give you a good indication of how the program runs.Three years from now if you are underemployed you will be able to go back to the same school and learn a second skillset.  You'll probably meet people doing that as you go through the school.
Reply:I'm impressed.   Lanse is a sophmore and is already looking into his future.  Holy cow!!  Atta Boy Lanse.  I wish you all the luck brother!  I'm sorry I don't have a good response for your posted questions but, I was so glad to see one young fellow who seemed to have some direction in his life that I had to post congratulations to you.      My two clueless sons sit on the couch as though they were molded to the cushions.     Best wishes.
Reply:I am in an apprenticeship for millwrighting and just finished my 2 months technical training.  So I spent some time in the welding shop as well as the machinist shop at school.My advice would be to go with the machinist course.  I found that there was a lot more challenge and thinking involved.  And although it sounds intimidating at first, by the end of the course you should be able to machine a piece to within .0005" accuracy.  Also as a machinist you are working with clean, brand new stock that you know the exact metallurgical composition.  You will also gain a better understanding of how mechanical parts work.  Not to mention the perk of staying relatively clean.  The downside is that you will probably get bored when you have to make ten thousand identical pieces.  And as for health-wise, machinists can develop lung problems if they work with certain metals or cutting fluids.  Also some people have bad skin reactions to cutting coolant, either because of the chemicals or the bacteria growing in it.Now the welding side, while still valuable is very different.  You are taught the basic theory of how to weld but it is entirely up to you to find your own style that works for you.  With welding you have a bit more freedom to as what kind of career path you want to follow.  There is structural, fabrication, aluminum, pipe, and production welding to name a few.  You can build sky-scrapers, motorcycles, ships, cars, conveyors, anything that is metal.  Welding does get boring watching a little puddle of metal all day, or if your job is to weld 1000 identical pieces all day.  Also as a welder, a lot of people will ask you to fix dirty, broken machinery where you don't know for sure what the original metal is, and they expect it to be done perfect and look like new.  The downsides are: burns, radiation from welding can give you cancer, you breathe in a lot of smoke and crud, working in cramped positions/ bad weather, welding shops are noisy, for the most part it is dirty work.  In terms of health, welders take the risk of developing breathing problems or cancer.Now that being said, both are good options and you can make a good living doing either one.  Maybe even look into if they offer night classes so you could take both?-Dave
Reply:You are wise to think out your choices and ask advise, Lanse.Welding is certainly the more dangerous of the two professions.  Yes, you can get twisted up in a machine and get killed, but I think you'd be more likely to get electrocuted, blown up, fall off a scaffold, breathe nasty fumes, etc. as a weldor.I know some fairly new machinists.  They're not young!  They are older, retired guys that always wanted to try machining.  Now they have time and money, so they go out and buy old mills and lathes and set them up in their shops.  They do odd jobs that big shops with CNC equipment don't want to bother with.  That's what you're competing with--and China.No math in welding?  Well, there is no calculus in either welding or machining, but there is certainly basic measuring, geometry, and trigonometry in both.  Granted, an engineer will probably be doing most of the math and give you the drawings, but don't think for a minute that you won't need it.I can understand your frustration with public school.  It IS a lot more fun going to school to learn things you want to learn from people that enjoy teaching it.  I think there is a lot of truth in what Old Fart is saying.  These schools want to sell you--NEED to sell you--on their product.  As far as getting a job after you finish, that depends on the local job market, as well as your attitude.If at all possible, learn both.  Keep in mind that few people stay with the profession that they initially choose.  Learn as much as you can, and never stop learning.America Needs AMERICA'S Oil!!!"Global warming is the greatest scam in history ...There is no run away climate change. The impact of humans on climate is not catastrophic. Our planet is not in peril."--John Coleman, Founder of The Weather Channel
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammSad to say, most of the maching has moved overseas.What's left is CNC if the shop hasn't been sent to China, lock stock and barrel.There's two kinds of machinists.The manual kind, and the CNC kind.  CNC mostly involves changing out stock in the machine, and sitting there watching it being worked.  Had a buddy who did that, he's unemployed now.  Dude was very good at setting up programs, and debugging them, but once the data was saved, goodbye Charlie.  They hired a trained monkey to replace him.Manual machining is almost a lost art.  One of a kind prototype parts, or repair parts, on old machines.  You have to be able to do setup work.  These jobs are pretty rare nowdays.  And those jobs require a multi skill set.  Machining, welding, wrenching, working knowledge of the machine being repaired............Get the most training you can, maybe do something that's your favorite, and take your lumps.  A career focused on maintaining stuff would be your best bet, industrial America is dead.
Reply:Well, I guess I'm going to veer from the general trend of this thread.I'd personally go with welding.  Maybe things are better in your area, but I know a LOT of machinists out of work.  Even in manufacturing-heavy areas like New England, several pals of mine lost machinist jobs years ago before the economy even began to slow, and if they were lucky, picked something up at a place like Sikorsky's.  I also graduated with a lot of machining technology students from a highly touted program who had top notch manual, CNC, and wire EDM skills.  The handful who had jobs upon graduation nabbed prototyping gigs, but only because they also had experience with the 3D plotters and CAD systems.  The tool and die shop I used to work for is still in business ONLY because they got almost exclusivity with a major medical equipment company doing very high-end, small-run medical components.  On the flip side, I can name only two fellow classmates of mine who couldn't get a job in the welding field; one is in jail, the other is a pill-popper.
Reply:Boy….You better get your math skills up to snuff and quit fooling around.   Now is the time to focus on your academics.   Stay in school, don’t do drug, and use a condom dam it.what part of michigan are you from? I went to school in Ann Arbor and did the same thing. Started taking night classes at the local community college when I was 15. I got a degree in welding and fabrication and a certificate in machining I'm about 8 credits short of having another degree in cnc machining although I've let those skills fall off a bit.anyways both are viable careers. machining which is really dominated by CNC machining these days is alive so is welding. They are similar but different fields of work and compliment each other well. I've worked a both but I'm 100% in the welding field now. you really can't go wrong with either and it depends if you like the precise and analytical approach (machining) or the more intense and rugged workas a welder doing things outside and such. I'm in between as I specialized in high precision TIG welding.  I love both trades and I use them both to do home fabrication projects.My 2 cents
Reply:I'd vote machining.  I started with welding and LOVED it, then tried some machining and LOVED it, then went to engineering school and did a LOT more machining and still love it.  Now I dont spend enough time in the shop but I really think if you take the hardest route you can at a young age you will be more satisfied when youre older.  Plus, as somebody earlier stated, you probably aren't going to want to be welding in the snow/mud/rain when youre in your 40's.  Plus, if you're a young welder you can really destroy your body quickly like some of my friend have.Generally if you go down the machining path you'll need to trend toward the perfectionist path as your tolerances will be generally +/- .010", but we design lots of stuff that has +/- .0005" or less.  Welding will GENERALLY lead to much larger tolerance bands, but I'm working on a project right now where we're welding stuff to very very tight tolerances so you can find very challenging work in either field.  Machining just lends itself to it slightly more so, in my opinion.  Or, you could do engineering school (don't let the math scare you, a little tutoring goes a LONG ways and many of us have had to go down that path) and limit your hands on stuff, and stay intellectually challenged your whole life and save the hands on stuff for at home.  I'd recommend manufacturing engineering to you, that's what I did and LOVED it.  It's a lot less mental masturbation and a lot more hands on.  You wont live in a cube, I can assure you of that.  Just something else to look into and complicate your decision!
Reply:Machinist is the better option of the two. I taught myself how to weld and do ok. Machining is another story, it takes more effort up front but that will pay off later. My friend can do amazing things with his CNC mill. Yes, he has his own. He rebuilt it from a scrap unit. I wish I would have learned machining back in the day. You can learn welding later.
Reply:Originally Posted by oak1971Machinist is the better option of the two. I taught myself how to weld and do ok. Machining is another story, it takes more effort up front but that will pay off later. My friend can do amazing things with his CNC mill. Yes, he has his own. He rebuilt it from a scrap unit. I wish I would have learned machining back in the day. You can learn welding later.
Reply:Good point, then you need to weigh how many jobs in Aerospace Welding there are vs Machining. Will you need to move to go where those jobs are? Is the cost of living higher there? Etc.........
Reply:Yep, spot on.  I wonder if we overloaded the guy yet.  Nice to see somebody that age is thinking ahead and asking the questions though.  Well, I'm off for some afternoon tractor work in the yard...
Reply:I was a machinist before becoming a welder and there is nothing better than to fab up your own parts..Weld them together..Finish machining when needed...Then looking at the part and realizing that you did all this YOURSELF!Do both..You will have no regrets.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Originally Posted by oak1971Machinist is the better option of the two. I taught myself how to weld and do ok. Machining is another story, it takes more effort up front but that will pay off later. My friend can do amazing things with his CNC mill. Yes, he has his own. He rebuilt it from a scrap unit. I wish I would have learned machining back in the day. You can learn welding later.
Reply:Originally Posted by snappy101i hear there aint much cnc work in my area though, cnc might be harder to find, and the pay is usually in the mid teen's realistically