New to stick welding need some input

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Hi all! I am pretty new to stick welding, have been doing it now for a couple months and an in the process of trying to build a gate and need a little help.I am using 1/16" e7014 at 60A... when I tried the 1/8" e7014 i was having burn through (i think it may have been from poor fit?)The tubing is 1" .08 thick.  I got the whole thing cut and then tacked the four corners flipped it over and tacked the other four.  Here are a couple of the welds:Here is the outer edge:Then I used my angle grinder and ground all the welds off and finished it up with the flapper wheel The biggest problem I am having is when I do the inside corner weld I am getting slag inclusions? (i think thats what they are called?) and it is not leaving a nice looking bead.  From what I have read I should have the stick at a 45 deg angle to the bottom workpiece and have a 15 deg angle in the direction of travel.  I have been laying these as stringers and am curious if i am going too fast, or the arc length is too short?  Please help.  The gate will have a bunch of vertical 3/4" tubing and all the welds will be this same one I am having trouble with.  I tried practicing on several different pieces and cant seem to figure out what I am doing wrong.
Reply:Your 1st 2 picts look pretty good for a beginner on thin steel tube. If I was to guess, I'd say the last pict you were moving too fast.Here's a link that might help with a few of the picts. The thread's got some tips on getting better closeups. Looks like the auto focus is trying to focus on the pavement rather than the weld, thats why the picts are a bit blurry. http://weldfabzone.com/forum/index.php?topic=1488.0.No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:It's a bit cold, could be the photo. An inside corner is basically a fillet weld and needs a bit more current than a butt weld or outside corner. I find that 1/16 rod is difficult to run. Have you tried seeing if your welder would burn 5/64 or 3/32 rod? When making a fillet weld watch your puddle fuse both pieces of metal. You should be able have good fussion on both sides with stringer but a little rod weave doesn't hurt.Tough as nails and damn near as smart
Reply:Let me grab my real camera and take a couple pics.  The others were with my camera phone.
Reply:Since you can move the frame around, I would weld the joint in position in other words welding the joint straight down.  I would also slow the travel speed down and have a near vertical rod angle.  Stay as close to a 5-10 degree lead angle and it will flatten the weld profile out.  I personally would be welding with a 3/32 around 60-75 amps.  Strike your rod and build your puddle, then proceed.  Most of the time I find people don't spend the time at the beginning of the weld and build a weld pool.  This will affect you weld as you haven't tied in both sides and your puddle will subsequently not fuse along the joint.
Reply:Ok took a few pics with my actual camera so here you go:Thanks for the comments/suggestions so far.  I guess I was sort of scared to try and weld these with the thicker rod because the last time i tried I burned through super bad.  But that was before i got my metal bandsaw, and the 45's with the grinder did not meet up well at all.Scott, that totally makes sense, I have not heard that before in all the reading I have done, and sounds like pretty much explains what happened when i threw down some practice welds trying to get my speed right. I would get fusion to 1 of the 2 pieces and in a couple cases fusion to both pieces but a valley in the middle between them.Last edited by ggarner; 03-20-2010 at 12:20 AM.
Reply:Much better picts. You can definitely see that you are not letting the puddle build up or are out running it by going too fast.1st time thru I thought you'd moved down to 3/32" not 1/16". Give the larger rod a try. at worst, you may have to move back to the 1/16". I'll give you credit. Most guys can't do 1/2 that well on thin tube with stick. Just keep practicing to get your speed, and settings right and you should do ok..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:You aren't consistent with the arc in the puddle.  The more steady you can keep the arc in the puddle the more consistent you are going to be.  As you build your puddle, move slowly and your puddle will follow you.  Watch the puddle and wash it one each side of the joint.  When you begin to see the puddle fall through, STOP.  Let it cool, clean the slag and begin again.  I would suggest keeping your arc very short as in 'keep contact' with the metal at all times.  Also, since you are sanding the sides wrap the bead over on the side so you don't have a divot on the corner.
Reply:I just checked in the garage and the rods i have to choose from right now are:7014 1/16"7014 1/8"6013 1/16"6013 1/8"I was not originally planning on sanding the welds on the inside joints but they looked so bad that i figured i needed to do something.Do you guys think I should try with the 1/8" 7014? If i remember correctly I think i was running that at 130 or 150A (BTW I am running a Lincoln electric 200A AC welder)Scott: I agree with the inconsistent arc... These little 1/16 rods burn so fast i have been having a hard time keeping the arc length steady.  I think my problem is I was so concerned about burn through that I was rushing the speed of the weld.  I think my other problem is that when I am welding I have a hard time knowing what I am exactly looking at... Am i seeing the molten flux or am I actually looking at the real bead which is being deposited.  I have about 8' of extra 1" tube and extra 3/4" tube so I guess tomorrow I will cut a bunch of each and just practice welding the 2 together using the suggestions that you guys have made.Another question: Do you think I should run another pass over these inside corners with the 1/8" rod using 5-10 deg angle to clean them up, or try with the 1/16" and just go nice and slow sweeping in those little C pattern?Thanks so much for all the help Scott, DSW, and tresi.
Reply:on a scrap plate, weld a 1/8 electrode and go as slow as you can and just watch the puddle.  watch the edges of the puddle.  You should be able to begin to tell the difference after about 5 lbs or so.  when I was learning I would stack beads and make a pad.  i started out with a 1/4 inch coupon. and by the time i finished it was 1 inch thick.  I had several coupons i would work on at the same time so I was working on one and letting the last one cool.  I would rotate between about 4-5 coupons.  I can't tell you how many pounds I welded just padding.  after awhile, you will be able to tell the difference between slag and molten metal.
Reply:Scott pretty much nailed what I had to do learning stick. We used angle rather than plate, but I used some scrap plate at home for practice. With the extra metal on the inside corner you might be able to use the 1/8" but I wouldn't try that on the piece you already have done such a nice job on.I"d try and find some 3/32" 7014 and save the 1/8" right now to just practice learning to tell the difference between the bead and the slag. It will take a while to get to see that and you will end up running a fair amount of rod.As far as the inside corners, a 4 1/2" grinder with a thin grinding disk can get into the corners untill it wears down. Again some practice on scrap will help you learn to control it. The grinds won't be pretty, but you can use that to remove some of the extra metal before you reweld, A dremel with a carbide burr is often what I use in tight spots. Be sure to wear eye protection. Those little metal filings are sharp and easily stick in to skin and so on. I usually wear leathers because the chips don't stick as well as they do in cotton. A small grinding wheel in the dremel works well also. They don't last long, so I use them for fiinsh work..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:dsw,  I welded plenty of angle.  I would take a 3 in angle and make a perfect three inch fillet.  I would  also weld another section into a perfect solid 3 inch square.  I can't tell you how many pounds I welded.  I would get home from work and would weld 5 lbs before going in.  My welder at home was an a/c miller thunderbolt.  I didn't know you couldn't weld 7018 on them.  I guess the welder didn't know better either.  Everyone talks about using 7018AC.  I haven't had the pleasure.I also welded vertical and horizontal along with wrapping beads on a joint of exhaust tubing.  I wasn't building anything as I didn't have enough money to buy good steel.  I just ran beads on junk iron and spent money on rods and o/a gases.  I know this has nothing to do with our op's problem.  sorry to get off track.
Reply:just a question but are you pulling or pushing the puddle?
Reply:Originally Posted by weldersdoithotterjust a question but are you pulling or pushing the puddle?
Reply:K, if you are a southpaw you should be welding from right to left so that you can see the puddle. Dont bother trying to put a weave in it (side to side motion) let the rod burn off at its own rate. That is important and keep and eye on this. If you watch carefully you will see how the rod burns off. This is going to be controlled by your amperage. Keep a tight arc but dont rest or drag it on the steel. The distance your rod should be from the material is equal to the core wire of your rod. i.e. welding with 1/16 rod keep the rod 1/16 off the material when welding. Go slow and smooth. The problem I can see right away is with the manipulation of your rod/technique. If you see the slag going in front of your puddle then change you rod angle. This all comes with practice, I would really start with some scrap and just run practice beads.
Reply:weldersdoithotter,  I am going to have to disagree slightly.  He is welding with 7014.  He needs to keep contact with the steel.  This will steady the rod, keep the arc in the puddle, keep the arc cooler, and give a prettier profile to the weld bead.
Reply:imho ditch the 7014 altogether and use 7018. If you have any interest in welding get better at 7018. Might be true about the 7014 scotty, ive never used it in all my days, but I do need to correct myself, with this rod you need a fast travel speed. ggarner try to learn the aws rod classification it will give you good insight about the rod and its characteristics.
Reply:I am somewhat familiar with the rod classifications, 6011 being an all position rod with deep penetration etc... But dont the 7018's need to be kept in an oven? I live in San Diego, near the ocean so my concern is that A)  I dont have an oven for rods and B) We have high humidity here which would possible spoil these rods in a short time right?
Reply:Personally, I think that you're making things unnecessarily hard by using the 7014 on thin steel, especially when you've got 6013 sitting there in the garage. You'd be better off saving the 7014 for the thicker stuff and using the 6013 on electrode negative. A 2.5mm  6013 on about 60/70 amps would be ideal, but a 3.25mm (1/8) should be perfectly do able on about 90 amps.  Strike the arc, give the electrode a little wiggle so that you see the 2 edges fuse, and then run straight along the fillet (on this occasion it might be better not to weave) keeping the electrode pushed up hard against the metal (as short an arc length as you can), with a slight drag angle. Hope this helps!
Reply:Ok well i finished up the gate.  Thanks for all the help. suggestions etc.  Here are some pics of the finished product and along the way.Ended up welding the entire thing with 1/16" 7014A few practice welds:tack weldsand the finished gate. still need to attach the hinges and latch
Reply:nice improvement...i wouldnt grind those last welds off.