NYSDOT Vert test

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NYSDOT. Anyone have any pointers on passing this test I have passed all test's taken but this one. i have taken it 3 times and no luck. 5/32 7018 excaliber rod on 1" v groove with backer plate. My ex ray shows wagon tracks but, they go all the way up the plate both sides. The root pass looked great.
Reply:The fail ratio is about 90%, it is very tough, that's why DOT welders make the big $. At one time, I was practicing for it. You have to go slow and easy, lots of practice. I burnt through about 10lbs. of rod and still wasn't close to my friend who was DOT cert.John -  fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!-  bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:I took and passed all three NYS tests.  First remember that the vert test does not have to be a 95 degree weld.  Check with your tester what they allow.  If I remember the test allows from 45 to 95.  I think when I took mine, my instructor made me do mine at around 70-75.  Only the Flat, and Overhead have to be 180.  And the over head if a P I T A due to sparks falling everywhere.
Reply:Dude 5/32 might be a bit big for a one inch test. I would say use 1/8 I used it and passed the Mass, CT, and NY DOT test in the 3 and 4G positions. Also tracks indicate too much heat without enough deposition...at least I think thats it. Its been a LONG day of welding full pen. verticals with NR 232.I would put your heat somewhere around 115-120ish for the vertical and be sure to hold the sides and properly gap your root. I tend to set the root to just a bit( a tiny bit) wider than the diameter of the rod I am using to do the root with.'Mike
Reply:Question, is this test to a standard like AWS D1.2?  I've heard that the test procedure for bridge weldments per AWS D1.2 prohibits you(the welder) from using any power tools to clean the weld between passes?  Only hand tools are permitted... Is this the case with the tests for NYSDOT?I'll agree with an earlier post that mentioned running this with 1/8" rod, instead of 5/32".  Seems to me that the heat required to run 5/32" 7018 would make it awefully hard to control the puddle in a vertical weld.  How hot were you running the 5/32" rod?  Running 5/32" rod too cold would seem to explain the slag entrapped along the weld toe lines (aka wagon tracks for any newbies reading this)...just my $0.02.... Originally Posted by harveyNYSDOT. Anyone have any pointers on passing this test I have passed all test's taken but this one. i have taken it 3 times and no luck. 5/32 7018 excaliber rod on 1" v groove with backer plate. My ex ray shows wagon tracks but, they go all the way up the plate both sides. The root pass looked great.
Reply:The New York test defines the test with the 5/32 rod. You cannot use anything else.John -  fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!-  bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:That is correct, no power tools.  No grinder or wire wheel.  Just sharpened welding rods to chip slag.DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Originally Posted by A_DAB_will_doQuestion, is this test to a standard like AWS D1.2?  I've heard that the test procedure for bridge weldments per AWS D1.2 prohibits you(the welder) from using any power tools to clean the weld between passes?  Only hand tools are permitted... Is this the case with the tests for NYSDOT?I'll agree with an earlier post that mentioned running this with 1/8" rod, instead of 5/32".  Seems to me that the heat required to run 5/32" 7018 would make it awefully hard to control the puddle in a vertical weld.  How hot were you running the 5/32" rod?  Running 5/32" rod too cold would seem to explain the slag entrapped along the weld toe lines (aka wagon tracks for any newbies reading this)...just my $0.02....
Reply:If it's a backing plate, it's possible that the backing plate wasn't right up against your coupons and some slag became trapped between the coupons and backing plate.
Reply:Originally Posted by EngloidIf it's a backing plate, it's possible that the backing plate wasn't right up against your coupons and some slag became trapped between the coupons and backing plate.
Reply:Originally Posted by partagasThey take the backing plate off, and then grind that flush.  So if any was their you can clean it up before the x-ray.
Reply:I know that when I took the NY DOT that I was able to use whatever rod I felt was best. I had a choice of 3/32, 1/8 and 5/32. Also I know that in most welding tests you are not allowed to use power tools of any kind. A slag pick(chipping hammer), wire brush and other non powered hand tools are allowed. In fact I know of a few cats that have used a beater and chissel to fix mistakes. I know that Mass and Ct you are allowed to use whatever rod size you think is apporpriate. I just took the Ct. DOT about 3ish months ago in fact and used 1/8 rod.Lets assume you are correct that you MUST use 5/32. If this is the case you may have to wait longer between passes to let the plate cool enough so you can control the puddle.My question is do they have you fit up the plates and tack on the backing bar or are the plates already made up for you? In MA and Ct you have to fit up the plates in fact that is part of the test itself is proper fitup. I also like it because when I shine up the backer bar I am preheating that and when I tack up the plates I am preheating(to a point anyways) the plates.I find it rather curious that you MUST use 5/32.
Reply:See section 6 of the Qualification Test for Welder Certification: https://www.nysdot.gov/portal/page/p...ure_4-07_0.pdf...and I quote: " Testing for the shielded metal arc welding shall be performed using 5/32" diameter E7018 electrodes. "This link outlines ALL the rules and regulations for the test. I believe the only option they do give you for a re-test is the option to use 3/8" material vs. 1".John -  fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!-  bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:I will say it was in like 02 I took the test.
Reply:Originally Posted by MicroZoneThey take it off? Your root pass includes part of the backing plate. You mean the x-ray testers cut it off? I am not sure about that. I think they x-ray the entire piece.
Reply:I don't see why they'd want you to remove the backing plate for an xray.  I can understand it for a bend test, but not an xray.  However, based on the sounds of the 5/32 rod issue, it sounds as if they don't put a lot of logic into the test.  I see no reason why somebody would consider filler diameter an essential variable and require a certain size.
Reply:Originally Posted by MicroZoneThey take it off? Your root pass includes part of the backing plate. You mean the x-ray testers cut it off? I am not sure about that. I think they x-ray the entire piece.
Reply:They will allow you to use 1/8 7018. Some one said to run the welder hotter but, you loose control of the puddle when the heat is to high. What is the advantage of using 1/8"? I know the rod fits better in the v groove but the heat is also lower.
Reply:Originally Posted by harveyThey ex ray the whole test plate and they do not cut the backer off.
Reply:I don't see how wire diameter really comes into play to be honest. 1/8 or 5/32 whatever your preference is. I have taken countless unlimited tests with 1/8  rod and passed with flying colors.
Reply:ElectrodesTesting for shielded metal arc welding shall be performed using 5/32" diameter E7018electrodes. Properly dried electrodes with sound coatings should be used. Electrodeswhich have been partially used, or with a damaged coating, are not recommended. Restrikingelectrodes may result in indications in the radiograph.Cleaning between Weld PassesCareful cleaning between weld passes is recommended. Cleaning may be accomplishedonly by using hand chipping hammers, picks, and wire brushes. Welders will not beallowed to use air carbon arc gougers, pneumatic chippers, needle scalers, cold chiselsand hammers, or any other equipment that may modify the weld profile. Removing testplates from welding position for slag removal will not be allowed.Finish Grinding of Test PlatesAt the completion of welding, (groove) weld reinforcement shall be removed by grinding,machining or chipping. The final surface must be produced by grinding. The laboratorywill make thickness measurements in the weld area and in un-ground areas of the basemetal. Test plates reduced in thickness by 1/16" or more shall be rejected and will not beradiographed.This info was taken from the NYS DOT Web site.  Here is a link for more info. It also has pics of what and how.https://www.nysdot.gov/portal/page/p...ure_4-07_0.pdf
Reply:Hey Partagas, I posted that link already, look up about 8 posts. John -  fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!-  bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:Originally Posted by MicroZone Hey Partagas, I posted that link already, look up about 8 posts.
Reply:DOT specs...they seem to be based upon urban legend or something.  Why can't they just say it has to be done in accordance to AWS D1.1?  Do they think they know more than the AWS does about this stuff?
Reply:Just want to update here that in the NYSDOT Tests you can use a grinder,but only with a wire brush wheel,and you can use 1/8 rod for the whole test if you likeOriginally Posted by notcoolenufJust want to update here that in the NYSDOT Tests you can use a grinder,but only with a wire brush wheel,and you can use 1/8 rod for the whole test if you like