fences on grade or rake?

admin

a couple of years ago I built a fence on a retaining wall and a few sections where on grade. Instead of stepping the fence I made these sections level out.So thats either rake or bias. Im not sure the proper term.So now I'm doing railings on a porch and the stairs. I'm having a brain block on how to calculate the rake.When I build the panel I should be able to place the horizontal top and bottom pieces on the welding table, with the picket weld points mark. Then offset the marks a certain distance as determined by the stair dimensions.Again I'm struggling with this and I know it's easily done so I'm looking for some pointers. Attached Images
Reply:heres the steps Attached Images
Reply:There are lots of ways to to this, but one easy way is rise over run.  You have a 23" rise so now you have to measure the horizontal run.  The steps like that would typically run roughly 33" (measure it -- this is just a guess).  So you have 23" of rise in a 33" run.From here, draw a right triangle on the bench with the "bottom" leg of the triangle being 33", draw a right angle at the end of that 23" tall, and the top rail set on the line connecting the two.  Your top post or first baluster can be set right on the 23" line.  Your top handrail goes where I just said (on the line or "hypotenuse" which connects the other two lines).  You now have the handrail set at the proper angle to the top post or top baluster.  Fill in the other balusters parallel to the first at the intervals you want to comply with code and give a good appearance.  The bottom rail could set parallel to the handrail depending on code in your area (where I am that would not fly if the little triangle formed at the tread would allow a 4" sphere to pass through).I hope any of this make sense.  To sum it all up, draw a full scale drawing of the steps on your bench and connect the dots with the railing parts you are using and you can't go wrong.To answer your question as to how to remember to calculate the rake, the included angle between the top rail and a baluster would be the inverse tangent of the run divided by the rise (this would be the angle on the "downhill" side of the baluster) and 180 minus that angle on the "uphill" side of the baluster.  The included angle of the rail to the imaginary level line would be the inverse tangent of the rise divided by the run.I can't figure out how to post a diagram -- how did you do that?Last edited by phila.renewal; 04-12-2007 at 10:03 AM.
Reply:Hey TPnTX,Just a note that phila.renewal's comment on the 4" spacing on the verticals is correct in most areas. There can not be a space greater than 4" between the verticals because of children getting their heads stuck between them. Check with your states' requirements.....DennyComplete Welding/Machine/Fab. ShopMobile UnitFinally retired*Moderator*"A man's word is his honor...without honor there is nothing.""Words are like bullets.... Once they leave your muzzle, you cannot get them back."
Reply:Holy Freakin Cow! Tangents - 180 / hypotenuse ha! just kidding. Thats the long math answer, I think.I know the top rail height. I also know the spacing thanks for the heads up though.If you take a two parrell lines and mark a picket position on both                    --------------x----------------                    --------------x----------------now you weld the picket on each mark and call it verticalbut let say your going to put this fence panel on grade.so you basically move one  X away from the other. Lets say for simplicity the top one. And you move it a distance that is proportional to the rise.                   --------------x----------------                         --------------x-----------------so now when you weld the picket to the marks. Now if you lift the panel and turn it clockwise until the picket is plum You have in essents create a panel "rake". Ofcourse your horizontal pieces have to be longer to meet the posts.                  --------------x---------------------                  -------------------x----------------Now the question is/was how do you determine how far to move or "skew" the marks away from one another.As far as the diagrams. I use publisher. then print to a pdf file. Crop the image and save as a jpg.Ive done it before just not on steps and thought it was determined by the grade but apparently I'm wrong. Attached ImagesLast edited by TPnTX; 04-12-2007 at 09:23 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by yorkiepapHey TPnTX,Just a note that phila.renewal's comment on the 4" spacing on the verticals is correct in most areas. There can not be a space greater than 4" between the verticals because of children getting their heads stuck between them. Check with your states' requirements.....Denny
Reply:Tom,I have a degree in mathematics, really.  Years ago I used to try to apply math to all my work.  Then, I found out that I could account for all variables.    So, I threw out my angle finders and only occasionally use trig. functions.Now I carry a large bevel square.  You can make one specifically for a job, too.Take a long piece of metal lay it across all your steps.  Take another piece of metal and set it at the top of the steps and make it plumb.  Weld the two pieces together in that position.  That is your pitch.  Take that to your table use it as a jig.  I made a bevel square of 3/16x1.25 strap.  It is 6 feet long.You really need to lay your material across all the steps.  The longer the steps the more chance for error.  With thre steps there should be no problems getting the correct pitch.I started a thread on building step rails last year. The only problem with using rise/run is the each must be measure Vertically and horizontally, respectively.  I mean using a level in both directions.  With 3 steps there will not be much drift, however doing long running steps and you will likely be disappointed with the results if the measures are done using a tape measurer only.As suggested by phila.  full scale drawing is a real good method also.  I used to draw all my rails.  However, it is much too slow for building lots of rails.
Reply:http://www.weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=5151If you use two spacers, make sure they have the exact same dimension.  I if they are say 1/16 off and you drop is 16 pickets then your pitch will end off a lot.  I know...Last edited by tapwelder; 04-12-2007 at 11:14 PM.
Reply:Thanks Tap, I can only imagine having excellent mathmatical skills. I don't and it's not for lack of effort.Anyway I'll take your word for it about being a the best(efficient) means of doing stairs.It just occured to me also. I have a contour marker. I could take that, attach it to a long piece, make the first axis plumb and note the angle. Problem with that though is if you have to forethought to bring a long piece of metal with you, you can bring your welder and picket also.Last edited by TPnTX; 04-13-2007 at 06:41 AM.