clear coat-seal for rusted metal???

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I'm currently doing a ornamental cladding job for a client. The work is going into a turn of the century factory building converted into lofts/condos. I aged the steel being added to a nice surface rust. Know I need to seal the metal. The client does not want a gloss clear coat and wants the rough texture( feel) to remain. I have used clear enamels and lacquer on past projects, but both gloss over. Any one know of a sealer that works while having minimum distortion to finish? I will post pics tomorrow.Last edited by wagin; 07-26-2010 at 03:14 AM.Reason: picsMiller TrailBlazer 251Miller HF-250-1Miller MaxStar 150 STLHyperTherm PowerMax 380 plasmaLincoln PowerMig 180Millermatic 252Miller Diversion 180
Reply:Hi Wagin, this is the toughest clear coat stufff I have used.It's water based and dries clear.Larger hardware stores and Home Depot usually carry it.Whether it is available in a semi-gloss, I don't know.Rick V 1 Airco Heliwelder 3A/DDR3 CTC 70/90 amp Stick/Tig Inverters in Parallel1 Lincoln MIG PAK 151 Oxy-Acet
Reply:It's going to be a crap shoot either way.  Two problems - 1) if the chemicals used to rust the material is not neutralized completely, it will out-gas and cause the clear to blister/fall off.  2) a clear still needs some sort of substrate to bond to, rust not being ideal.  The way to cheat this would be to put a ton of something like a polyurethane clear to "bridge" over the rust, but you will start to lose your texture, and it will probably start to degrade the appearance.  If you do try a clear, you may want to add a retarder to it to give it time to "saturate" the rust.  Unfortunately, this is a common problem in the sculpture world, and the reason why the people who are really concerned with keeping a long-lasting rusted finish without corroding too heavily are forced to go to something like an A588/Cor-Ten weathering steel.
Reply:Originally Posted by Rick VHi Wagin, this is the toughest clear coat stufff I have used.It's water based and dries clear.Larger hardware stores and Home Depot usually carry it.Whether it is available in a semi-gloss, I don't know.
Reply:Thanks for all the great info. What I've done is scuff the mill scale, soak with water( a few rainy days works best), allow to rust a few days then clean the metal with mild soap and then windex. I tried acids, salt brine, etc...Old fashion rain seem to provide the best, most consistent rusty finish.Miller TrailBlazer 251Miller HF-250-1Miller MaxStar 150 STLHyperTherm PowerMax 380 plasmaLincoln PowerMig 180Millermatic 252Miller Diversion 180
Reply:Distilled water works equally well.
Reply:I discovered some new chemistry, new to me any way. From my recent experimentations in aging-rusting metal, I had a container filled with lemon juice. I dropped a galvanized bolt into the lemon juice and the fun began. Bubbles, mild smoke and some noticeable heat in the bolt. A cool reaction. After a few minutes the once silver-gray finish on the bolt turned to a dark gray, almost flat black. The fumes/smoke concerned me a little. Does anyone know the specs. of this reaction? By-products, etc...WesMiller TrailBlazer 251Miller HF-250-1Miller MaxStar 150 STLHyperTherm PowerMax 380 plasmaLincoln PowerMig 180Millermatic 252Miller Diversion 180
Reply:At a guess I'd say the lemon juice contained citric acid.Galvanized means a zinc coating.Citric acid + zinc = zinc citrate + hydrogen gasRick V 1 Airco Heliwelder 3A/DDR3 CTC 70/90 amp Stick/Tig Inverters in Parallel1 Lincoln MIG PAK 151 Oxy-Acet
Reply:So with a few hundred gallons of lemon juice and several tons of galvanized bolts I could generate enough hydrogen gas to run my car for a few days?  Of course the required mods would have to be made to fuel system prior. Any way cool fact.Miller TrailBlazer 251Miller HF-250-1Miller MaxStar 150 STLHyperTherm PowerMax 380 plasmaLincoln PowerMig 180Millermatic 252Miller Diversion 180
Reply:Not sure you could run your car, but you could sure blow up your garage trying!
Reply:Originally Posted by waginSo with a few hundred gallons of lemon juice and several tons of galvanized bolts I could generate enough hydrogen gas to run my car for a few days?  Of course the required mods would have to be made to fuel system prior. Any way cool fact.
Reply:wagin,As mentioned, acid + galv = hydrogen gas and no more galv.And as rookie_steve mentioned, you use more energy (electrical) to split the water into hydrogen and oxygen than you get by burning the hydrogen and oxygen and turning them back into water+heat(energy).  You end up with a net energy loss.  And that doesn't even take into account all the process inefficiencies involved!  Even in a best-case no process inefficiencies scenario, it -still- takes more energy to electrolysize water into hydrogen and oxygen than you get from turning hydrogen and oxygen into water and heat/energy.  But that doesn't seem to stop Democrats and other weak-minded folks from thinking that using electricity to split water into hydrogen is some sort of magic cure-all for energy woes.Back to the original question.Most of the time, coatings are made to film over and smooth out.  In this case, you want something that does not smooth out.  Tough call.Depending on how much protection you are needing for the pieces will determine how tough and durable a coating you need.  Just remember, from back when you first asked your question on how to rust steel, I think I mentioned that given atmospheric moisture the rust would tend to continue.  It is sort of a self-perpetuating reaction.  That said, maybe a hot wax coating or a hot clear plastic (aka powder coat) could work for you if you first do a thin coat to seal and penetrate the surface rust and pits, and then 'glop' on another coat or more to put some roughness back onto the surface.Either that, or with a paint/varnish/lacquer coating, put on thin thinned coats either spray or brush or dip/dunk to get the sealing of the surface, and then do a 'poor' top coat with orange peel and 'dry spray' and overspray and pretty much all the stuff you never want to get in a sprayed on finish in order to get some roughness and glop.  The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...
Reply:At my previous employment, where i worked for 14 yrs until they down sized to mex....,a group of techs. researched and proto typed many hydrogen generator cells. A few were installed into the fuel system of various vehicles. The "lab work" was going fine until the day one tech decided to bubble off hydrogen, capture it in a windex bottle and guess what...fired it off to see if would blow. It did! he lost hearing for 3 days. That ended the R&D dpt.Miller TrailBlazer 251Miller HF-250-1Miller MaxStar 150 STLHyperTherm PowerMax 380 plasmaLincoln PowerMig 180Millermatic 252Miller Diversion 180
Reply:Originally Posted by wagin. . . he lost hearing for 3 days. That ended the R&D dpt.
Reply:The only way hydrogen fuel would even remotely make sense in the least, is if it was generated using nuclear power.  PERIOD.Vantage 500's LN-25's, VI-400's, cobramatics, Miller migs, synch 350 LX, Powcon inverters, XMT's, 250 Ton Acurrpress 12' brake, 1/4" 10' Atlantic shear,Koikie plasma table W/ esab plasmas. marvel & hyd-mech saws, pirrana & metal muncher punches.
Reply:Originally Posted by SupeNot sure you could run your car, but you could sure blow up your garage trying!
Reply:Originally Posted by DualieThe only way hydrogen fuel would even remotely make sense in the least, is if it was generated using nuclear power.  PERIOD.
Reply:Originally Posted by Rick VAt a guess I'd say the lemon juice contained citric acid.Galvanized means a zinc coating.Citric acid + zinc = zinc citrate + hydrogen gas