weld repair

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I have to repair someone elses previous repair on my front end loaer moutn frame.  This one is the wider view of what is going on:Down at the bottom:Crack photo #1:Crack photo #2:Crack photo #3:Last edited by Birdhunter1; 08-27-2007 at 08:38 PM.
Reply:I was waiting for the electron micrograph photo but I guess your working on it.  Looks like you'll be grinding that bad boy out. It looks like they undercut it too much thinning it out at the top of the weld.  Though it looks repairable.Be sure to show the after pics.MichaelMillermatic 25115" Rockwell Drill Press10" Logan Lathe5hp - 2-stage 80 Gallon CompressorHome Made Sand / Soda Blaster
Reply:[QUOTE=383bigblock]I was waiting for the electron micrograph photo but I guess your working on it.  Looks like you'll be grinding that bad boy out. It looks like they undercut it too much thinning it out at the top of the weld.  Though it looks repairable.Those are some dang good photos....I wish  I could do that. [/QUOT weld it like you own it
Reply:The work:  The bottom piece is the top of a square tube (2"x 4") that is 1/4" or 5/16" thick, the piece teeing into it is 1/4".  All mild steel.Weaponry available is my Lincoln AC 225-S (american made version), I'm thinking grind it out real well.  It will all be flat work so I am thinking a 6011 root pass at about 100 amps then 2-7018 over the top of it, or should I do a 7018 single pass.  What amperage do yall recommend for the 7018 passes?
Reply:Looks like the weld itself did hold up..The materal around the weld is a diffrent story..Grind the cracks and fill...David R or Tozzi Or Hammack will have input here..7018 is not a bad chioce ...The orig weld held..Maybe wanna go over that one more time also.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:My wife got me a digital camera for my birthday 3 weeks ago.  a guy at work taught me everything I know about it so far, including how to take up close shots using the macro feature.It loosk like the guys used a mig without enough juice behind it, but that's my opinion.
Reply:Birdhunter1, it depends on what size 7018.For 3/32" use about 75-90amps.  Test on some similar material first.For 1/8" use 90-105amps.  Once again, test on similar material first.Don't use anything bigger than that.  I'd recommend 3/32" for the 6011 and 7018.  Use about 80amps for the 6011 if it is 3/32".
Reply:Originally Posted by Birdhunter1It loosk like the guys used a mig without enough juice behind it, but that's my opinion.
Reply:The 6011's and 7018's I have at the shop are all 1/8" rods.To me those welds look more like 'lets put alot of stuff on here and that ought to do it.  It wraps under the front and continues on behind what I have shown you, but to get to that requires a whole lot more work and since the weld behind that piece is not cracked I'm leaving it for now.
Reply:Originally Posted by Birdhunter1It wraps under the front and continues on behind what I have shown you, but to get to that requires a whole lot more work and since the weld behind that piece is not cracked I'm leaving it for now.
Reply:Originally Posted by WelderBoyWell, if you want to repair it like it was repaired before, leave the old weld on the back.  Or else it will be in your best interest to get it all out and start from scratch.
Reply:If all you have is AC, 6013 may be easier.  It will be strong enough and probably a  better weld than if you use 7018 on AC.   At least you can take the piece off and repair it on the bench..1/8 6013 if you use it, 115 amps,  7018 maybe 120 to 130 amps.  I can't be sure on AC.  David We want to see pics when its done.Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Originally Posted by Birdhunter1I had a feeling somebody would say that, that thing is a PITA to get on and off.
Reply:Since it's your equipment it's an easy call. Besides, you said the weld on the back is still good and the outside weld is what takes all the pressure on those anyway... Air arc sure woulda been nice though...lol.Anything worth doing is worth doing RIGHT
Reply:Birdhunter,I'd also add a rectangle gusset behind the vertical plate, to help keep the pipe mount from twisting backward.  You could cut it to end in front of the rear mounting bolt.  Lay it in at an angle pointing down toward the tractor.  The outside edge right behind the pipe mount.Good luckLarryTry not use $10.00 worth of time on $.10 job!!Miller Bobcat
Reply:This exact same support on the front part of this is also on the backside (towards rear of tractor).  The back part (towards rear of tractor is a factory weld in good shape still, the only one that broke is this one on the front side.  When I said the backside in the earlier post I meant under the tractors transmission.  Looking at the frame on tis again it won't be as hard to take off as I originally thought, I thought te entire frame was one piece but this section unblots from the rest of it so it wll come off and get repaired.  So you guys think a 6013 will work?
Reply:Originally Posted by Birdhunter1So you guys think a 6013 will work?
Reply:10-4, thanks guys!Welderboy, you gave the best advice.. "it's your equipment, when do you want to fix it again?"It may be a few days before I get to it but I will post follow up pics.
Reply:First thing you need to do is get ALL of that old crap out of there be it you use a torch or grinder.  Get it all cleaned up to a good joint then you can tell what you need to do.  If it means cutting a good weld and having to reweld it to get it cleaned up, then so be it.  If you have any 7018AC then run it around 135 amps and weld it all back up.  A 6013 will also work, but the 7018AC would be better.  I personally am not much on running a 6011/6010 root in front of a 7018 on equipment.  I prefer to run a 7018 through out.  ~JacksonI'm a Lover, Fighter, Wild horse Rider, and a pretty good welding man......
Reply:Originally Posted by Hammack_Welding I personally am not much on running a 6011/6010 root in front of a 7018 on equipment.  I prefer to run a 7018 through out.
Reply:It is just stronger that way. If you can get to both sides of cracks and must use 6011, back gouge the 6011 bead out when you do the other side. It will end up being a better weldment that way. That is for most equipment welds, whether arms, buckets, whatever you have that takes a beating. On a non-beat-upon weld, leave it like it is and it will be fine.
Reply:Great stuff here    I just want to find the "M" button on my digital camera so I can post pics like that.Seriously good stuff on the 6013 and 7018 pros and cons and everything else.Not too long ago I had almost the same repair on a blue color tractor also.I GMAWed it w/ spray xfer ...............and again wish I could have posted pics of them.  I believe this particular guy was being too rough on his equipment because he kept bringing his stuff back for more welding with other areas broke. Look forward to the results. weld it like you own it
Reply:Originally Posted by WelderBoyWhy is that?
Reply:Hammack, Although I usually gouge the 6010 out of the back after I weld it when possible, sometimes I don't.  Whether it not be possible, or if the engineers don't want it.  We use it at work all day for open roots on everything from crane mounts, to seams in the hull of a ship, to top plate handrail.  I don't know why an engineer would call for it on a huge crane mount if it could have flaws like that.I believe your story, don't get me wrong.  And your post has got me thinking hard about whether I want to leave any 6010 in a structural weld in the future when doing work for my own business.  The thing I don't understand is that most steel is rated at around 35,000-45,000psi tensile strength.  I see no reason why 7018 would have an advantage in the root over 6010.  Is it more ductile?  6010 does seem to be more brittle and I know 7018 is very flexible.   But I've never heard of a crack starting from deep in the center of a weld.  I know a weld engineer is going to reply and put me on my *** on this subject.  So let me have it!
Reply:WelderBoy, I honestly don't know.  I have never had any training or school as far as welding or metals etc...  I could be totally wrong, but go off of what I have learned from my own personal experience.   I honestly would like to hear what a weld engineer would have to say on the topic.  as far as a 7018, I just pretty much know that it is a better choice when you need something resistant to cracking.  As far as a crack starting deep in the center of a weld goes, I always thought that is where they would originate especially if you did not achieve full penetration.  I guess it would depend more on how the forces were applied to the weld as to where a failure would start.I'm a Lover, Fighter, Wild horse Rider, and a pretty good welding man......7018 is more forgiving.  6010 is more brittle.  With good prep you can get a perfect root with 7018.Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:7018 usually has better mechanical and impact numbers, IIRC.
Reply:Originally Posted by Hammack_WeldingAs far as a crack starting deep in the center of a weld goes, I always thought that is where they would originate especially if you did not achieve full penetration.
Reply:Originally Posted by WelderBoyWell, that wouldn't be the center of the weld, but the backside of the weld.Once again, I don't know the answer.  But I would like to know because I will be doing welding in the field and will want to do it the right way the first time.You guys bridge open roots with 7018?  If so, do you build up on each edge until they are close enough to run a pass across?  Or do you bridge it on one end and weave it to fill it up as you go?
Reply:I repaired it yesterday, someone who goes by birdhunter1 left the rod can open on my 7018's so I used 6011's on it.  These are not the prettiest and my camera batteries died so i only got a few pics to post:Root pass on one side, the camera angle sucks but the weld looks better in person than this picture:This is one the back side that I had at first not thought about doing but Hammack talkd me into it, aside from that one pinhole hole it looks pretty good:What caused the pinhole right in the middle, it seems to just be a surface spot as I used a pick to try and get in there but it did not seem very deep?  I was keeping the puddle as uniform as possible,  could it have been a bit of slag left from the pass underneath it?I love my air powered die grinders but they don't make fast work of grinding old welds off, most of my time was spent with them.  I wish I could have got my 4 1/2" in there but it was too big to get near any of it.Getting this thing off the tractor wasn't hard, getting it back on was a B####.Last edited by Birdhunter1; 08-31-2007 at 06:56 PM.
Reply:I don't see any pictures.
Reply:Can anybody else see them besides me?
Reply:Red X.City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:I see no X's.Did you try to link them from your hard drive?  Because that won't work.  If you tried to use imageshack, or photobucket, then you need to make the pictures public.  Or that won't work either.Or you can just host them on weldingweb.........
Reply:I put them on photobucket, I'll try it again later.
Reply:Photobucket sucks my nuts.  Use www.imageshack.us.  Never once had a problem with imageshack.us but I can't count how many times a day I get the "photobucket image not found" error.