horizontal Stick

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I've been practicing vertical up welding with stick these last few days and found it not to be to hard so far. I thought I would try horizontal and was wondering if there is anything I should know? If I remember right, you have to pause slightly at the top of the bead so you wont get undercut?axehind
Reply:Normally no weave is used on horiz.  All stringers.  When I see a big ole weave bead run horz I figure some amateur did it.www.urkafarms.com
Reply:Sberry,I have alot of respect for you but I hear different things as to weaving and not weaving. I dont know what to believe anymore So I just went out and tried both ways using 3/32" rod on 1/8" mild steel. There wasnt really much difference in bead appearance except the width of coarse  One thing I noticed though was that when weaving I could see that if you didnt really watch what your doing, there was a greater/easier chance of buildup. Also I noticed that if the gap was to big, I couldnt use a stringer bead. I had to weave.axehind
Reply:i have a buddie of mine going for a d1-5 cert and he uses a J weave, and he can run stringers all day but he has the best luck with the J  weave... its nice and tight and when its done it looks like a stringer bead...but has real consistint RIPPLE  pattern, he is using 1/8 7018 rod at about 125- 30 amps in a miller 8 PACK
Reply:I tried 1/8 rod but on 1/8" steel I kept blowing holes in it. Especially on vert up. The amperage has to be too high for me to run 1/8 rod on 1/8" steel. I use 1/8 rod on 3/16 and up.axehind
Reply:axehind  are you using 3/32 7018 or a 6010/6011 type rod  whatever i dont think on 1/8 material you would get much time for anything fancy..fairly tight gap an maybe step it in
Reply:I should of mentioned that earlier. I am using 7018. I havent tried any other rod yet with stick welding.axehind
Reply:axehind ...i don't weld on 1/8 material very often but for something like that i would use a 6011 and step it in fairly quickly pausing when i went back into the puddle and maybe one more pass on top same method but longer pause when going back in puddle...7018 would, for me be a little harderjim
Reply:Why would you use 6011? Because it's fast freeze?axehind
Reply:yes ..i think it would be easier to get full a  penetration root without to much build up.. then you could put a cover pass over it with 6011 or try a 7018 using small circles moving quick or even 2 small stringers as a cover pass(going to work tomorrow if i can find 1/8 material maybe i'll run sum)
Reply:axe, when needing heavier welds on horiz multiple passes are used.  You are going to have problems with gaps in that position with 7018.  Normally 6010 0r 6011 would be used as a root pass. weaves are used as filler passes in grove welds in flat and overhead and for fillets or grooves in vert.  Overhead fillets use stringers as well as horiz groove welds.  In horiz multiple passes use stringers with all electrodes.  The sag is happens with weaves.Last edited by Sberry; 03-19-2004 at 09:08 PM.www.urkafarms.com
Reply:I will elaborate just a little in response to another post. An experienced operator has some "licence" or perogative is a better word to manipulate the puddle to his liking from the "standard" method to a certain degree.  Learning the correct way is the best and allows you to keep improving.  Self teaching often leads to some bad habits which limit the operators ability to keep improving.  They tend to hit a ceiling where improvement stops.  Its well worth while to get some help and it doent have to be school,,, but help from someone that KNOWS,, and there are a lot of people that think they know,, big difference.www.urkafarms.com
Reply:axehind: sberry is correct in saying that in the horiz. posi. with 7018 you should not weave. Looks very unprofessional. Multiple stringers is the eccepted way to weld in the horiz. posi.. 7018 should not have a "ripple or stacked dime" look in this posi. any more than what you would see in the flat posi.. On 1/8 steel if you have gaps in the fit and you only have 7018 rod you should "butter" up the gaps first before you start your root pass. Then after your root is in on your 1/8 plate cap it off with at least 2 stringers laid in nice and tight. Rod angle should be slightly pointed up with a straight in or slightly pull angle. Let the metal cool just a bit before the last stringer is applied. If you have trouble with sag on the cap pass adjust your speed & angle until you are comfy with the appearance. You can push the puddle a little on the cap this may help to.         revpol
Reply:axehind tried welding some1/8 material gapped it at the thickness of a nickel put the bead in with 5p+ stepped some in  also pushed some in  liked pushing better if you try this and create a window just keep moving on and go back later you'll likely turn the window into a door if you stay to long.. this material cant take a lot of heat. for capping tried 3 different ways...because their isn't much to cover tried 5p+ very small circles was ok although with 7018 this method left a touch of roll over..then did 2 small strips with both rods came out ok..axehind the machine i used has a fine current adjustment , this makes things alot easier...   question  is this a procedure for a test
Reply:Some pics of practice beads I made today. Used 3/32" 7018 on 1/8" mild steel in horiz + vert positions. Not the best pictures.... not the best looking welds for that matter 1 of 3axehind Attached Images
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Reply:number 3 of 3 ............. Attached Images
Reply:try 2 of 3 again.... Attached Images
Reply:Actually axe, that doesnt look too bad considering the difficulty of running a decent bead on a flat plate.  Those verts look pretty good,,, and you have been learning on your own?www.urkafarms.com
Reply:Thanks Sberry.Yes it's all been on my own and with the help of you guys and a oldtimer. Those are suppose to be stringer beads. No waving, whips, or zigzags.There is a shop up the street owned by a oldtimer that I can go to and ask questions or bring my practice welds into and he tells me what to try and if he see's something wrong. He hasnt "shown" me anything except how to cut steel with my torch. I get good deals on steel from him for practice. I'm hoping to take some classes soon.axehind
Reply:Those verts look good, you have the idea thats for sure.  Its obvious you understand how to control it.www.urkafarms.com
Reply:Welds look good for a beginner. Vert. looks good heat about right and angle to. On the horiz. looks like maybe a little more heat, about  5 or ten amps point the tip up to about maybe 30 deg. angle and a little less "drag" of the puddle. More straight on or a little push of the puddle. Again, looks good. Keep it up.    revpol
Reply:I still need more practice to become more consistant. I'm still going by Franz's comment "you wont be a expert after your first 50lbs of rod...".  See Franz.I bet you thought no one listens Sberry,I'm starting to understand the "puddle" everyone talks about and how to tell if I'm going to fast or too slow by watching it. It certainly takes personal experience to be able to tell. No amount of reading or watching someone else will help you with it.revpol,I have noticed that vert up seems to require less heat than horizontal. Maybe that explains why I need more heat on the horiz welds as I used the same settings on it that I did on the vert. I believe it was on 95 amps.I actually like stick welding so far. It's faster than O/A and slower than MIG. MIG is kinda tough for me because of the speed it goes.axehind
Reply:axehind..good stuff i thought you were sticking 2 pieces together by butt welding sorry for the 5p stuff... my old timer years ago told me it's just application of metal.....and you weld with your eyes ..its amazing what you see after welding for awhile... vertical up is hard like sberry says when not in a bevel or welding against something but you seem to be the ball park... horizontals don't look bad ..do you do any tight small circles just to try to reduce the bead rollover( travel left to right circles counter clockwise)when we fill and cap a horizontal where i work its just one stripper stacked on top of one another.. which is really what 7018 is all about a stacking rod.. its hard to learn on your own so as the boys say just keep applying metal try tweaking heat and rod angles
Reply:Originally posted by james do you do any tight small circles just to try to reduce the bead rollover( travel left to right circles counter clockwise)when we fill and cap a horizontal where i work its just one stripper stacked on top of one another..axehind....just keep practicing... you'll do finejim
Reply:axehind: Don't do any circles on horiz. 7018. This will just cause problems down the road. It will tend to cold lap on the bot. "sag". which can lead to slag entrapment, lack of fusion and other problems. Also you have to go slower when you weld, makes it harder to follow a straight line. Have seen to many bad x-rays when people do this. Also 7018 will weld any way you want to point it. So learn rod positions and angles, experiment.   revpol
Reply:revpol small tight circles  in the arc crater ...never been called for ..cold lap or slag entrapment i too have been x rayed ut'ed and magged on a regular basis
Reply:james in certain instances you would. you wouldn't want to buddy weld tangent boiler tubes that way. i wouldn't teach a beginer to do this. only on a root of a horiz. plate test just to make the puddle ti-in to the top edges. sometimes it is needed on the fill passes for the top stringers. but a newbe should learn first just how to run a straight stringer and thier diff. rod angles and heats for diff. applications. if he tries to many things at once it can get confusing. learn the stringers first then the tricks.     revpol