Whats with this industries employment?

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Couldn't find the right place to post this.I have been fabricating for over 10 years now and 99% of the shops I have worked at have either had work shortages or in one case, sold out to the states. The steel industry seems like a construction industry (as in relation to road and house building). Just recently we had 24 out of 28 employees laid off forcing us to be unemployed. Back to job hunting here in BC. You guys have a similar problem? Many people I know out here do and there is supposed to be a high demand for trades and metal fabricators. Oxy
Reply:I work in a gasket manufacturing shop and we send some of our dies out to machine shops to be repaired and maintained. One large machine shop that we used to use went out of business and the other small two-man shop we use is barely hanging in there. We try to give them as much work as we can because if they went out of business it would be hard on us because we don't have the time or expertise to maintain the dies ourselves.Lincoln AC/DC 225/125 Stick Linde HDA-300 MillerMatic DVI MIG Miller Dynasty 200DX Hypertherm Powermax 1000
Reply:There's tonnes of work in the structural welding fields, working in the petro-chemical and powerhouse operations.  There's also quite a bit of work in pipe welding in these areas also.  The pay is good, but the trick is that you have to be willing to live on the road and work long, long hours.Good paying jobs in fabrication shops are harder to find; I suspect because if it can be built in a fab shop, it can be made overseas cheaper.  If it has to be built or repaired in place, there's no help but to pay local craftsmen to do the work.I'm new to welding and looking for stable work close to home these days.  Instead, I expect to hop from one contractor to the next, working whatever structural or pipe welding jobs are closest to home.  Hopefully, I won't have to commit to working on the road full time, but if I do, I don't plan on working year round...Benson's Mobile Welding - Dayton, OH metro area - AWS Certified Welding Inspector
Reply:I agree with the pipe line jobs. I did have a offer of $120,000 cdn a year. Two weeks on one week off. They would fly me ever 3 weeks to where ever I wanted. It didnt work out for me because my fiance is here and the work camps can be rough.
Reply:At this time in the USA we are short 200,000 welders and by 2010 we will be short by 400,000.  Information by the US Chamber.   JohnSMAW,GMAW,FCAW,GTAW,SAW,PAC/PAW/OFCand Shielding Gases.  There all here. :
Reply:Originally Posted by weldgaultAt this time in the USA we are short 200,000 welders and by 2010 we will be short by 400,000.  Information by the US Chamber.   John
Reply:Originally Posted by drivethruboy54unfortuneately they only want to pay these 200,000 people $20/hour to tig weld exotic metals in a shop, which is why i had to move over to the structural world.
Reply:dont attack me like that, i have a job.  Im mearly stating that employers in general are not willing to pay for skilled craftsman.
Reply:If they don't like the pay offered, don't take it.;  JohnSMAW,GMAW,FCAW,GTAW,SAW,PAC/PAW/OFCand Shielding Gases.  There all here. :
Reply:good advice
Reply:Originally Posted by drivethruboy54unfortuneately they only want to pay these 200,000 people $20/hour to tig weld exotic metals in a shop, which is why i had to move over to the structural world.
Reply:thats missouri, this is the bay area.  The cost of living is not even close to on par.
Reply:I have heard the best time to look for work is when you have a job.SO i tried it.I went to a business on my lunch hour that made stainless exhaust systemsfor exotic cars.The place even had a dyno made just like the one the state of California uses to test their products. Many mandrel benders and thousands in equipment.The guy needed a foreman too.i applied and he showed me around a shop that was freezing cold, low roof and hardly any light.there was a man working on the punch press that looked disabled in some way and was working in almost no light.The job required a high degree of skill. The owner said his wife had left him and his foreman had left him. His office room looked like a homeless encampment.He asked me how much money i wanted and i said $20 phr. He said "I do not know where you can get that kind of money." I told him I had a friend waiting for lunch.Two years later i was told by the local welding supply store he was still looking for someone.Take of yourself. Do not get taken advantage of. There are some businessmen that are experts at using people.
Reply:Originally Posted by oxygen454Couldn't find the right place to post this.You guys have a similar problem? Many people I know out here do and there is supposed to be a high demand for trades and metal fabricators. Oxy
Reply:what about the oil fields in canada?  I hear they are paying big money for truck drivers, welders, carpenters, etc...nevermind, i just read you had a fiance
Reply:I couldn't agree more with all of you guys. I don't take a job if its less pay. I need to make over 24/hr just to get by and lately I have been getting 25 so thats not so bad. I deffinatly think my fabrication ticket is a huge asset! Thats why I chose to go to school for that. I might get my welding ticket but I chose fabrication because I like to use my brain and figure things out. I am always looking for shops and connections while I am working. Problem is, the two good leads I have are slow and laying off too. Couple other leads are hanging there but I cant wait for a responds, I have to get back to work to pay the bills. I live in Aldergrove BC and I think there is some good jobs in Langley and Abbotsford that I am going to look into. Also I have had some good luck with job sites like Monster.ca and workopilis. Thats how I heard about the pipeline job. Thanks guys for all the info and keep up the positive vibes!!Oxy
Reply:Also to add, you have to make your self look big and ready to work. Employers see people from a mile away that will brake for lower pay or if the person looking for work might not be qualified. My fiance always says she got to where she is because "she could sell ice to Eskimo's!" Im learning from her. haha
Reply:What do you mean "sold out to the states" where do you think this site is from, and try getting sold out to Mexico for half your wage before making a ignorant statement like that.
Reply:Good Day Welders, If the US will be needed 200,000 welders maybe our country Philippines can supply good skilled welders some of our welders have looking stable job at the other country due to insufficient income here. Just like me, I am new in the professional welding job my plan is to get a job in the other country."One word is enough for a wise man"
Reply:Hey Choche,Relax brother! Read his original post carefully, he asks if you are having the same kind of problem, your answer should be yes, we have that problem, and it is even worse because of our proximity to even cheaper labour in Mexico. Lets not turn this into a Canada vs US thing, especially considering how hard it was for us northerners to have to watch two US teams fight over our Stanley Cup!-Ryan McEachern
Reply:Thanks Ryan I dont know where that dude came up with Mexico and all that stuff?? haha and he calls me ignorant. Sold out to the states means they sold there company to an American buyer.Anyways back to the topic... have any you guys worked on a pipeline? I hear they have lots of work but whats the living conditions like? From what I hear a lot of drugs.. Depends too on who you hang out with out there too I guess.
Reply:Originally Posted by drivethruboy54thats missouri, this is the bay area.  The cost of living is not even close to on par.
Reply:well here in az the only big job going is a 42 inch natural gas line that started in new mexico and will end up in bisbee az , the company is gregory&cook out of texas and there paying welders 40hr if you can get in , they are a union so its hit and miss , but like the rest of the country its very slow and not much work here , the economy is the big problem , citys, countys, and states have put holds on any big jobs , until things pick back up and from what I have seen here its not just the states its all over, only reason I am still working is the jobs my company has are mandated and finances were pre aloted to finnish jobs , I work for a high way construction co.
Reply:Originally Posted by tresi I've seen way too people jump at $50K or $60K being waved under their nose only to go out there and go broke.
Reply:Ryan and O2-454                                                                                                                                                     How do you not get the Mex. referance?  And try sold to not sold out,to many good American jobs being sold out so maybe check how you word stuff or maybe I'm just being ultra sensative but I've had it with this crap, get it done oversea's or (far south) for as cheap as possible nobody cares about craftsmanship anymore nobody can teach anybody the right way because your not making enough money to begin with the trades are going down hill with the economy sorry I'm way off the subject but I really was not trying to be rude I just see it on the job site everyday and it's frustrating. Oh and they don't call it Hockytown for nothing.ok every time there is an election yr or season every thing goes down hill for work so i have seen it 4 times so sure things are slow all over the world here and there I dont like it and nobody eles does , its our livlely hood its our work , if we didnt like it we wouldnt do it , but remember we are builders and repair people , if it breaks they have to call one of us ??? because no one with a suit behind a desk will do it . its just time for some  of us welders , and by the way (smaw) is a trade that is falling and needs to stay in the hand I am seeing to many things in the trade falling away, espesialy quaity
Reply:Quality is defiantly falling! I have worked for a few shops and some of them were get the job done and quick. I have to say, I have never welded with stick and wouldn't mind learning. I don't think it will ever fully go away due to the structural outdoor iron workers. Not to easy to lug a wire feeder up and across some beams 30 stories up and 30 feet out. lol As for the selling out, I do have to agree that we too are losing work due to buying products over seas. I used to build transfer trailers and the main part, frame, was made in Korea. We just basically finished the frames off. Apparently Korea can fab 10 frames to the cost of one frame we made.Last edited by oxygen454; 06-14-2008 at 03:44 AM.
Reply:Originally Posted by phwelderGood Day Welders, If the US will be needed 200,000 welders maybe our country Philippines can supply good skilled welders some of our welders have looking stable job at the other country due to insufficient income here. Just like me, I am new in the professional welding job my plan is to get a job in the other country.
Reply:I see this thread has come quite popular, almost 600 views haha. I have heard a lot of immigrants from as far as england as well, yet our economy is struggling along with the American economy causing many layoffs.
Reply:Originally Posted by oxygen454I might get my welding ticket but I chose fabrication because I like to use my brain and figure things out.
Reply:Originally Posted by EngloidI couldn't agree with you less.  Find me the best 100 welders in the country and I'll show you 100 guys with above average intelligence and problem solving abilities.Dumb welders are NEVER the best welders.  They may get by, but they will never be at the top of their field.
Reply:A story about a job hunting venture of mine a couple years ago:I called an ad in the paper that said the company paid well, good benefits, etc.  The office lady simply told me to come by and fill out an application.  I told her nicely that I had a job already, and couldn't take time off to fill out an application, with no more hope than "throw your name in the hat."  I asked her what the ballpark pay range was and she got really sketchy.  I asked if she was looking for GOOD welders and she exclaimed that they definitely were.  I know they don't like to tell anything about pay on the phone, but heck, I have been to too many interviews that ended with offers of $8-12/hr.  I explained that I knew I couldn't hold her to anything specific, but I didn't want to waste my time or hers if it wasn't suitable.  I finally got her to come out with a number....$12.  I knew then that it was a place I didn't ever want to work anyway.  I'd rather go paint houses for $16 than get burned up and breathe smoke all day for $12.  I said to her, "oh, you really don't need good welders, do you?""Yes, we do.""You're not going to get good welders for that much."She began to get a bit irritated, but what do I care?"We have a shop full of good welders for that.""When all you pay is $12/hr, the only guys that will darken your doorstep are $8-10/hr guys.  When you pick the best of that bunch, you don't have the best, you have the best that would work for your wages."I simply wanted to make the point that cheap workers do cheap work.I worked in another shop where I was brought in at $19/hr.  I was promised $1 raise after 90 days.  WIthin that time, I pretty much took over the welding department, because they leaned on me for my experience.  I had gotten 2 promotions and still no raise.  They wound up laying me off and told me it was because they hadn't gotten the workload they expected in that product line.  (Probably because they could never feed me enough materials that I could put out the amount of product that our customer wanted.)  Anyway, after laying me off, they hired three guys at $10/hr each to take my place.  They did poor quality work and scrapped a lot of product due to poor welding.  In my time there, I scrapped NOTHING.  Somehow, the owner thinks he's saving money.Business people typically know nothing about craft workers.  They wouldn't trust just anybody to do a tattoo for them, but they think all welders are the same.
Reply:I agree. I have seen so many places hire for cheap. On place I worked at did that and I asked my boss, Why do you hire cheap labor, his answer was, I can have more guys cover more area and get the job done faster. My responds was, so when they screw up big and set us back a day or two (which happens frequently) then thats okay? He had no answer... lol Also not to knock the welders because I respect them too, but as a fabricator, I have sat back and watched TICKETED welders make welds that I could literary scrape off with my finger. Another time we had a part of a small building collapse in our shop. So all in all, I find sometimes, more than less, experience can mean more than some writing on a piece of paper. And this is coming from a certified journeyman fabricator. As for us fabricators, I have seen fabricators that couldn't square a frame if there life depended on it lol. So what I believe is, with knowledge and practice, comes safety and knowing how to do the job right. Also like Engloid wrote, experience saves time and money.
Reply:Engloid:"Business people typically know nothing about craft workers."Too true.Craftsmanship is nearing extinction. More, faster. 9-11-2001......We Will Never ForgetRetired desk jockey. Hobby weldor with a little training. Craftsman O/A---Flat, Vert, Ovhd, Horz. Miller Syncrowave 250
Reply:Spot on Engloid, I've seen it time and again.Another way it seems to happen is the ramrod works out I can weld a bit so I get a few fitters thrown at me and into it, in the mean time other guy's will be lucky to do a butt a day yet get the same money and cruise.Oh and PS: I'm ever so lucky to be allowed to do their repair welds to boot.I'd rather be hunting........USE ENOUGH HEAT.......Drifting around Aussie welding more pipe up, for something different.....wanting to get home.
Reply:Originally Posted by tresiThus the reason I'm still in Missouri. I've had several offers over the last 15 years to go to CA. I have kin folk out there so I know what it cost. When I was working at a plant the was closing it's doors in Jefferson City and opening up near L.A. the owner kept making me offers. One day he flat asked me, How much money would it take to get me to move there? I replied that they haven't printed enough yet. Every person that took him up on his offers to move there 4 years ago has returned to MO within 2 years. I've seen way too people jump at $50K or $60K being waved under their nose only to go out there and go broke.
Reply:Originally Posted by CarmenElectrodeHa! 50-60K is like minimum wage in many parts of California!  of course we pay with sunshine and waves....
Reply:I talked to a shop today that needs tig welders, and they said they "start everybody out at $15.50."  That's nice...it's like starting out as a rookie everytime you go to a new job!!  Perhaps they would be ok with my going in and playing dumb, letting other guys repair my work, scrapping a lot of materials, and giving a low amount of production...  like the rookie they're paying for.
Reply:Isn't that the truth Engloid... I always hear at interviews, we will start you out at this lower wage and if you work out we will bump you up. Ya like 3 raises over a year to get back to a decent wage, forget that crap. I just keep looking till I find a better paying job. I got hired on to a new company about a month ago at 26/hr. Not too shabby.
Reply:Geez, the wages you guys are laughing at would be doing pretty well in my area. The cost of living here has been traditionally low, but thats been going up lately. It was just 2 and 1/2 years ago I bought a brand new double wide and an acre of land to put it on for 90K. I can't imagine what you'd have to make to be able to pay a mortgage in California.
Reply:for entry level welders 40k is a high average with lots of OT. i know people working for 10-20 years at a place and not getting 20hr. with the high rise cost of everything this company doesnt care about inflation becuz they opperate like its 04'.  its hard to get the big bucks without 5-10yrs of expierence and in some places u could take a job at 15hr and be up to 20 in that time. or join a union and get 25+ for 5 years and a pension plan. For us in the US social security won't be here for our retirement.
Reply:Originally Posted by oxygen454Couldn't find the right place to post this.I have been fabricating for over 10 years now and 99% of the shops I have worked at have either had work shortages or in one case, sold out to the states. The steel industry seems like a construction industry (as in relation to road and house building). Just recently we had 24 out of 28 employees laid off forcing us to be unemployed. Back to job hunting here in BC. You guys have a similar problem? Many people I know out here do and there is supposed to be a high demand for trades and metal fabricators. Oxy
Reply:The longest I have worked in one shop was in the Langley area.  That was five years.  I am sixty years old now so can be the grumpy old fart in the corner if need be.... lots of those around :')  Having a trade makes you independent.  I always have viewed my employer as someone who needed me in order to make money.  If he didn't need me there was always someone else who won a bid on some sort of project and needed my services.
Reply:One thing I have found about this industry is even thought it is a pain in the a$$ every time layoffs happen try to look at it as an opportunity to find a better job. I have been laid-off more times than I can count but each time I got laid-off and found a new job and made a new contact. After another layoff I made a few phone calls to former employers and usually one of them was looking to hire someone like me again.
Reply:Looks like I have missed some good info here. I haven't been on the welding web for a while now lol. I have worked at a couple of jobs since but the industry just gets worse with the economy. Sounds like things are picking up now. I need to find some connections to bigger companies that are more established. ie. Canron, finning etc. I see Canron is hiring but haven't heard anything back.Seems to me, if your not already "in" with a shop and well set, its hard to stay. Soon as work shortages come, only select people stay. I have had no problems with my work performance just work shortage.Last edited by oxygen454; 12-04-2010 at 01:31 AM.