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I rarely weld directly off my Bobcat. I use it mostly as a generator to power my other welding machines and power tools. I would very much like to have a nice quiet diesel generator that puts out 10-15 KW 240v single-phase, or 1&3-phase, power. Must be smooth, usable power that my inverter welders can run from. I would also like to have said diesel generator with a built-in 15-25 cfm air compressor so it's all in one box with one engine powering both. Who makes such an animal?For those that will mention the Trailblazer 302 AirPak, I know all about that one. I don't want another screaming air cooled gas engine. I don't need the welder portion of the machine either, as I have the XMT for that. The AirPak is also too much $$ for what it is. If it had a quiet diesel engine, it would be great, but Miller doesn't make it that way and would probly charge way too much money for it if they did. It's already $10K with the gas engine.The Big Blue AirPak is way too much money and way too big for the truck haul too. Lincoln's AirVantage is too big and expensive as well. I don't need 20KW's and 50cfm, or 500 amps welding output either.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Look at the MQ whisperwatt series. The dimensions may be too large as most are trailer mounted. Very quiet.
Reply:Hey Desertrider,We have a 10kw Kohler power that has a ford cast iron engine that burns propane. It is very quit compared to the small gas and fast turning diesel welders that you are talking about. They also make diesel generators... I don't know if they still make the smaller ones like this, most of them I have seen are 25kw and up, I also see lots of MQ rental units that seem nice. I built a skid with forklift sleeves that I welded the genset to. We use this generator to run food concession stands but I tested my pm350 on it to see how well it ran and I could spray without any trouble. It would fit on a flatbed without any trouble but I think that these types of gensets are a bit large for the back of a pickup or toolbox bed truck though... it would fit nicely on the front of a trailer and power all of you welding needs if someone wanted to set up a mobile trailer unit. KenLast edited by KGIOR; 09-23-2010 at 04:59 PM.
Reply:The snowbirds use those quiet Onans in their rigs... don't know if 220 is available on any of them, but you can talk over them, they travel well, they're diesel and not crazeee $. No built in Air compressor I suppose.enjoy,Last edited by PapaLion; 09-23-2010 at 05:23 PM.Lincoln Power MIG 215Lincoln WeldPak 3200HDLincon ProCut 25Lincoln WeldanPower 225 AC/DCIf all else fails... buy more tools
Reply:What happened with the VanAir 10KW/24cfm/250amp DC/CC/CV diesel welder?didn't you post up about those a while ago?Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:Originally Posted by forhireLook at the MQ whisperwatt series. The dimensions may be too large as most are trailer mounted. Very quiet.
Reply:Originally Posted by forhirehttp://www.multiquip.com/multiquip/power-solutions.htm10kW DCA10SPX55 x 26 x 3661dB15kW DCA15SPX61 x 26 x 3662dBTo get 3-phase in the whisperwatt it looks live 20kW or larger.
Reply:Originally Posted by Broccoli1What happened with the VanAir 10KW/24cfm/250amp DC/CC/CV diesel welder?didn't you post up about those a while ago?
Reply:Have you looked at Van Air? http://www.vanair.com/My mistake I see you have...11k for 5kW + 84dB + 3600 RPM http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/VIP...enerator-4TZW4Last edited by forhire; 09-23-2010 at 07:30 PM.Reason: Oops!
Reply:Originally Posted by 7A749How much air do you need? I would look into a separate gas powered air compressor & go after a rental grade Diesel generator in the 15K range. I think it would be easier to find one than something with air integrated into it.I would think a fairly nice used 15K machine shouldn't be too hard to find. I also agree I would like to stay away from another air cooled engine if I was going the route you are. I wouldn't want to pay too much for one either tho.Frankly, and I'm only talking MY opinion here, if I was doing the work & volume of it you're doing self employed, I would have the Vantage 400 or 500 in the small frame & be done with it. Yeah, some serious coin, but would be the last welder/generator you would ever need to buy. I'm not a big fan of "umbrella" or all in one machines. They can keep their added air compressor, I'll run a gas one with the 13 HP Kohler engine Ingersoll Rand makes. Miller's early Air Pak's of the 1990's had scores of troubles with the compressors in them going bad, I'll pass on that.Keep the XMT for a shop machine or where you can operate off line power onsite.Or, sell it along with the Bobcat & put it towards a Vantage/equivalent machine.I'm not knocking Miller's engine drives, but that Vantage is prolly one of the best made inverter/chopper diesel engine drives on the market & hold their value very, very well. This is coming from a Miller guy. For me, I wouldn't want the hassle of dragging the XMT & stuff around. Not to mention the increased probability of repair issues with several separate pieces of equipment, etc.I would just have the Vantage, an LN 25 feeder (already have one) & a decent compressor to run a carbon arc off of. I do mostly stick in the field, so that would be my main gig. The Vantage does TIG & everything else too. I would most likely go the route of a Dynasty machine for AC TIG if I was knocking down the money to justify it, being it's as versatile as it is.Having an engine drive with a 400+ amp output opens up an entirely new window of possibilities. I didn't realize this until I worked with a company that did a LOT of heavy scrap machinery repair & a LOT of CAC. The 500 amps was awfully nice to have, it made quick work of CAC jobs with plenty of power to spare.I know you aren't in the market for a Diesel machine, just covering the value added benefits of having one in favor of a separate generator.Unless of course, the generator comes along for cheap. IMHO of course.
Reply:Originally Posted by forhireHave you looked at Van Air? http://www.vanair.com/My mistake I see you have...11k for 5kW + 84dB + 3600 RPM http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/VIP...enerator-4TZW4
Reply:Originally Posted by DesertRider33Yeah I looked at that Viper on the VanAir website. No where near enough power. I'd need 2 of them. I had no idea they were so loud, and expensive. Yeah I think when I get the price on the AirNArc 250 diesel (made by VanAir) we were talking about above, I'll probly have a heart attack. I'm envisioning it costing $20K, since this little 5KW one is $11K and doesn't have a diesel, or a welder in it.
Reply:I know you guys are serious welders and really know your business... I'm a welding novice but, I've been rebuilding various diesel engines and building gen-sets as a hobby for about 10 years. When I read this post, a few things came to mind.It will be hard (but not impossible) to find a 3 phase generator that puts out commercial-grade power in the 10-15 kW range. 3 phase heads usually start at 30kW and go up from there. Below that, most heads are 240v single phase and most (but not all) single phase heads top-out in the 24kW range. Also, if you find a 30kW 3 phase generator, the output you get is three legs of 208 volts where each leg can provide 1/3 of the total rated power thus, if you want to power a single phase load, from one of the legs, you'll only have 10kW available on that leg. If the device you want to power is wired for 3 phase then, you'll get to use the full 30kW.Also, I have no idea what RPM a compressor is typically driven at but, most single and 3 phase gen-heads in the power-range you have in mind, must be driven at 1800 RPM. If air compressors are typically run at much different speeds then, you need to have pulleys or gear boxes to provide the two different speeds that are needed. This of course, this jacks-up the cost of things.Also, to make 750 Watts, you need 1 horsepower thus, if you want a 15kW generator, the engine needs to provide 20 HP. ( In reality, the engine will have to be rated for about 33-35 HP because rated HP is the max value and you can't constantly run an engine at max output). Also, if the engine needs to power the air compressor and the generator at the same time, the engine will need to be even bigger. The engine you need is what they use in truck refrigeration units or large bobcats -and they're expensive as all heck.The point I'm trying to make, that the requirements you seek in this generator/air-compressor are very hard to meet because you're at the mid-way point between big-boy 3 phase power generation and medium-duty 240v split-leg output.BTW: Over in the projects section are pictures of my gen-set project. The engine and generator are basically what you're looking for but, I have no plans to add a compressor. I'll gladly design one for you but you sure as heck don't want me doing the welding for you (LOL)...Didn't mean to intrude on your post but wanted to pass along my ideas.
Reply:Ray, your post isn't an intrusion at all. We all enjoy discussion of different ideas here. Thanks for posting. So far the compressors I have been seeing seem to run at either 1800 or 3600 rpm. I'm by no means any kind of compressor, small engine or generator expert. I would like to have a low (1800) rpm diesel engine. The little 3600 rpm diesels they put in the Bobcats/TBlazers/Rangers are not all that quiet. MQ had noise level info on all their generators in the link provided earlier here and the 1800 rpm ones were far quieter than the 3600's. Same goes with Miller's 1800 vs 3600 rpm diesel welders. The Pro 300 is very quiet, I've worked around them and they are by far the quietest welders I've heard. Like I say, a Pro 300 with a built in screw compressor would be wonderful.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Without knowing the price, those PTO-operated screw air compressors VanAir sells look pretty good. Takes up no truck bed space, all mounts under the truck, doesn't weigh all that much, about 300 lbs for the kit, it appears. Of course, the price is probly over $5K for all the pieces to make it drive off the truck's transfer case and control the engine speed. They make it with a generator too, but I wouldn't want to run my truck engine for every job I do. Too much gas and wear on the engine. Just a thought.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Originally Posted by DesertRider33Ray, your post isn't an intrusion at all. We all enjoy discussion of different ideas here. Thanks for posting. So far the compressors I have been seeing seem to run at either 1800 or 3600 rpm. I'm by no means any kind of compressor, small engine or generator expert. I would like to have a low (1800) rpm diesel engine. The little 3600 rpm diesels they put in the Bobcats/TBlazers/Rangers are not all that quiet. MQ had noise level info on all their generators in the link provided earlier here and the 1800 rpm ones were far quieter than the 3600's. Same goes with Miller's 1800 vs 3600 rpm diesel welders. The Pro 300 is very quiet, I've worked around them and they are by far the quietest welders I've heard. Like I say, a Pro 300 with a built in screw compressor would be wonderful.
Reply:dr33 it might sound dumb but you can cut the exhaust pipe on your bobcat and add an elbow and mount another muffler to the top of your machine to quiten it down the old big 40s were doen that way sometimes and it sure helps , that dont help your compressor problem though. just thoght i would throw out an idea. later
Reply:Tex, yeah I've thought of putting a second muffler on it. Not sure if that would cause it to overheat or bog it down with too much back pressure or not. It's a tiny motor that's doing all it can to do what it has to do and it does get rather hot here in the summer. The way I have it mounted in the truck doesn't help much with cooling either (too much packed around it). Overall engine noise would still be quite high even with a quieter exhaust, but quieter exhaust would be nice. Not sure if I'll get around to trying a second muffler on it or not.Ray, the thought did cross my mind to build one. I doubt I will, but the idea does interest me. You have alot of knowlege and experience with those generators and the project you posted looks like it's coming along good.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:IF U have plenty of electricity from whatever new generator you find and buy, then could you use an electric compressor? Ya' got the juice so the compressor doesn't need a seperate gas engine to maintain and mess with. An older lighter US smaller belt driven 2 stage electric might do it? My bud who services produce trucks here in the winter does that and it seems to work aok.Lincoln Power MIG 215Lincoln WeldPak 3200HDLincon ProCut 25Lincoln WeldanPower 225 AC/DCIf all else fails... buy more tools
Reply:Papa Lion, I thought about using an electric twin tank compressor. The idea is quite attractive. They're alot lighter to move around and cheaper to buy than a gas powered one. Not having to keep up with the extra gas engine, especially since I don't use it all that often, would be a good thing. I called Caisons compressor company, since they have a dealer that is always advertising them for good prices on Craig's List locally here. I was asking how many amps at 240 volts their portable electric compressors need. The guy immediately told me that they, and allegedly most other compressor manufacturers, don't want them used with a generator. He said the fluctuation of the power output will kill the electric motor in short time. I explained that I would run it from a large (10KW) self generating welding machine that makes good power and my inverter welders run fine from it and he insisted that I not run the compressor from the generator. I don't really know that I buy what he said, but it might have some merit in long term use.Ray seems to know quite a bit about generators and suggested the same thing you did. I'd like to hear his thoughts on this. I'm not sure I have quite enough power output from my Bobcat to run both the plasma and the compressor at the same time or not, as I don't know the current requirement of the compressor motor yet. I think 12KW would be enough. 10KW may or may not be enough. The plasma runs full power on a 20 amp circuit and never blows the breaker. The Bobcat puts out 44.something amps @ 240 volts, so 24 amps would be left over for the compressor motor to start up and run, if the plasma is running wide open.Last edited by DesertRider33; 09-24-2010 at 12:56 AM.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:DesertRider33,The issue with running a compressor off the generator has to do with the start-up surge. I've heard that a compressor can pull 3 times the run current on startup. It happens in a few milliseconds so it doesn't kick the breaker. It's really hard on a motor if it's under current. A lot of this has to do with using 3450 rpm motors. They only have 2 poles. They don't have the torque of a 1725 rpm motor with 4 poles. If the compressor had an off-loader that engaged the compressor after the motor is running you'd be fine. I have an old quincy that starts up like this, the compressor is spinning without a load, starts easy. Most gas compressors have off-loaders, otherwise you couldn't pull start it.Maybe Ray can shed more light on this.
Reply:DR I was going to suggest one of the underhood/PTO screw machines. I looked into one when I bought my truck. $5-7K range sounds about right from what I remember. WAY more than I wanted to spend at the time. I talked to a friend who works for the local power and gas company. They use similar screw machines on their small trucks to run single 90lb jackhammers in the city so they can tow a small machine and not a compressor. One issue with the screw machines is that they use an oil bath as part of the compression process IIRC. Thats great for industrial applications where any oil left will lube tools, but for the plasma it's probably going to be very dirty air..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Trade-offs and conflicting desires going on.First off, a 'reality check'.The 'usual' 11-13 hp gasoline engine 30 gallon air compressors run around 500 pounds and usually produce 15-18 cfm of air or so. As Ray mentioned, the usual 'derating' factor for a small gasoline engine to run equipment (generator, compressor, welder, etc) is to 'derate' the engine horsepower by 2x. And that is without any shenanigans from the engine makers as to the horsepower rating.So that '13 hp' gasoline engine on the compressor is actually only going to run (or produce in the real world) about 6.5 hp. Hmm, 6 hp engine running an air compressor pump gives us the 'usual' 80% efficiency, which turns that 6 hp from the engine into 4-5 hp 'out' of the compressor air pump. At the rough conversion of 4-5 cfm at 90 psi per hp used, that gives us around 16-20 cfm of air out of our original '13' hp' gasoline engine. Yup, sanity check on the numbers matches up with the usual general specs for a 30 gallon gasoline engine truck-mounted air compressor at 15-20 cfm (usually right at around 18 cfm IIRC).The 'usual' 225 amp or so engine drive welder using a gasoline engine of around 13 hp runs around 500 pounds.Hmmm, notice a pattern there? Sure you can get a quiet low rpm diesel engine as a power source. Heavy and a bigger footprint/space-claim than a 'comparable' gasoline engine.And part of the "quiet" for an engine is that the the block and internals and the air intake and the exhaust all have to (or should be) designed to be quiet from the get-go. It is all do-able, but not just as simple or as inexpensive as a 'regular' old screaming small gasoline engine.Then further the entire engine can be shrouded/enclosed to further quiet things down. But that all has to be part of the original design, and not an afterthought. Works quite well, but adds yet more weight and cost to the 'solution.Liquid cooling? Sure, adds more weight.ASME air tank? Sure, adds more weight.A generator head that make clean power? Sure.Put it all together and you are up in the realm of those MQ $$$$ machines.Or for smaller generators, you are in the realm of the quiet Honda or RV generators or such. Again, big $$$. But they can be or are pretty much are darn quiet. As in quiet conversation quiet. Under 70 db quiet.You say, "But I can get a 'construction' generator that makes 10 kw for about $1500. Why is the quiet and durable machine costing $15,000?!?"Precisely -because- it is quiet and durable. Stationary air compressor to produce 15+ cfm using an electric motor is usually going to be a 5-7 motor hp. To run a 5-7 hp electric motor will take 25-35 amps at 240V single-phase. The start-up surge on the electric motor is figured at 3x. And -that- start-up surge is what and why the air compressor guy was trying to tell you when he said ixnay to running the electric motor air compressor off of a 10kw generator.Similar to trying to run a transformer-based stick welder like a tombstone off of a generator. That start-up surge (in this case the initial current surge when the transformer is getting 'energized') and transformer inefficiency is why Lincoln flat out says that to run a 'little' AC225 tombstone off of a generator means using a 15+ kw generator.http://lincolnelectric.com/knowledge...generators.aspbtw, I-R makes some oil-free rotary-screw air compressors. Just a little bit bigger than you need for running a hand-held plasma cutter or even a carbon-arc. How about 186 cfm at 125 psi? Weighs 5111 pounds and has a 50 hp 60 Hz electric motor though. And that's the -smallest- model I see in that line. The 50 Hz versions are a bit heavier. I-R oil rotary-screw air compressor making 18 cfm at 125 psi using a 5 hp electric motor is listed at 650 pounds. Model UP6 5-125.And -most- electric motor air compressors are made to run indoors and not be exposed to the weather. So, you'd have to replace the electric motor with an 'outdoor' electric motor, as well as the wiring and piping and such. Or have the compressor inside an enclosed trailer or truck bed (you said you want to avoid the trailer option). Add in possible leveling requirements and it is not always so simple. The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...
Reply:Originally Posted by MoonRiseAnd -most- electric motor air compressors are made to run indoors and not be exposed to the weather. So, you'd have to replace the electric motor with an 'outdoor' electric motor, as well as the wiring and piping and such. Or have the compressor inside an enclosed trailer or truck bed (you said you want to avoid the trailer option). Add in possible leveling requirements and it is not always so simple.
Reply:For city work I would be looking for a International City Star or Isuzu equivalent Low Cab Forward truck.Our little Box truck will drive circles around my F250 CC SB Long Beds need almost a city block to turn aroundYou could set it up with a 1/4 Box behind the cab for tools and then a deck for the rest and then have plenty of room for stuff.http://www.isuzucv.com/http://www.navistar.com/Trucks/Trucks/Series/CityStarEd Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridgeOriginally Posted by forhireDesertRider33,The issue with running a compressor off the generator has to do with the start-up surge. I've heard that a compressor can pull 3 times the run current on startup. It happens in a few milliseconds so it doesn't kick the breaker. It's really hard on a motor if it's under current. A lot of this has to do with using 3450 rpm motors. They only have 2 poles. They don't have the torque of a 1725 rpm motor with 4 poles. If the compressor had an off-loader that engaged the compressor after the motor is running you'd be fine. I have an old quincy that starts up like this, the compressor is spinning without a load, starts easy. Most gas compressors have off-loaders, otherwise you couldn't pull start it.Maybe Ray can shed more light on this.
Reply:Originally Posted by MoonRiseStationary air compressor to produce 15+ cfm using an electric motor is usually going to be a 5-7 motor hp. To run a 5-7 hp electric motor will take 25-35 amps at 240V single-phase. The start-up surge on the electric motor is figured at 3x. And -that- start-up surge is what and why the air compressor guy was trying to tell you when he said ixnay to running the electric motor air compressor off of a 10kw generator
Reply:Thanks guys for all the electrical theory and explanation. The jist of it is an electric motor compressor is out of the question.I'm almost scared to even ask a supplier what those PTO-driven compressor systems cost. It's probly safe to say those are out of the question too.Some thinking to do...MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:oh just break down and spend the $60k for a air vantage 500 and a new dualie to haul it.
Reply:Originally Posted by sjamesoh just break down and spend the $60k for a air vantage 500 and a new dualie to haul it.
Reply:Makes that noisey-assed Bobcat look like the best bang for the buck on the planet.I wonder if 2 of them could be made/wired into a 20 kw machineMiller Dynasty 700Miller 350P with Aluma-pro push-pullMiller 280 Dynasty with expansion card Dynasty 200 DXMigMax 215 Enuff power and hand tools to create one of anything..... but mass produce nothing!!!
Reply:Don't know if this is of any help but here is a link to some generator options. No air with any of them that I can see, Kubota's look to be the lightest although not light. http://www.coloradostandby.com/catal...9231eb27f00706HH 187Miller Bluestar1EAHP AlphaTig 200X
Reply:Maybe this is a dumb suggestion, but it may be more cost-effective to rent a trailerable compressor when you have work involving CAC. It's obviously most cost-effective to group the cutting together, so you can get rid of the compressor as soon as you're done. Unfortunately, even a small compressor is going to be more than you need (like 85-100 cfm), but if the price is right, it may be another way to go.If you know anyone in the excavating biz, maybe you can work a deal with them.
Reply:Originally Posted by Broccoli1For city work I would be looking for a International City Star or Isuzu equivalent Low Cab Forward truck.Our little Box truck will drive circles around my F250 CC SB Long Beds need almost a city block to turn aroundYou could set it up with a 1/4 Box behind the cab for tools and then a deck for the rest and then have plenty of room for stuff.
Reply:Originally Posted by tkanzlerMaybe this is a dumb suggestion, but it may be more cost-effective to rent a trailerable compressor when you have work involving CAC. It's obviously most cost-effective to group the cutting together, so you can get rid of the compressor as soon as you're done. Unfortunately, even a small compressor is going to be more than you need (like 85-100 cfm), but if the price is right, it may be another way to go.If you know anyone in the excavating biz, maybe you can work a deal with them.
Reply:Originally Posted by GreyhorseDon't know if this is of any help but here is a link to some generator options. No air with any of them that I can see, Kubota's look to be the lightest although not light. http://www.coloradostandby.com/catal...9231eb27f00706
Reply:Originally Posted by FusionKingMakes that noisey-assed Bobcat look like the best bang for the buck on the planet.I wonder if 2 of them could be made/wired into a 20 kw machine
Reply:Originally Posted by sjamesoh just break down and spend the $60k for a air vantage 500 and a new dualie to haul it.
Reply:Originally Posted by 7A749Let's simplify this.In order to get a large enough generator to do what you want & either an integrated air compressor or stand alone unit, you are going to have to take a good look at what you are doing now & if all this means to simply producing power to run your welding machine & a plasma cutter are really worth it. Like was already mentioned, to get into an industrial grade combo machine, you'll spend a fortune & it won''t be light on your truck either.All BS aside, if you aren't using it every day & have an immediate need for it, just forget it & go for something that will either power your XMT, or go to a unit that will do all your welding needs & look into an air compressor if you really need one. This whole generator thing seems to be looking way more complicated than it needs to be. If your doing demo jobs requiring CAC all day long or got into a gig doing heavy stainless requiring a high output plasma cutter with a large volume air supply, sure, go for it. If not, I wouldn't waste money on stuff you don't intend to use on a regular basis.What kind of work do you find yourself doing the most? Build a system around that, rather than have every conceivable thing you may think you need, but prolly never will use on your truck. Although I am not working full time in the field anymore, I found after years of lugging tons of stuff around, that for the work I did, going to a simple setup of only what I needed worked the best. Of course, 90% of the field work I have done or still do is easily accomplished with stick welding, FCAW & torches. If I need specialized equipment for a job, I bring it along. Otherwise, it can stay at the shop. I have a few job boxes with certain use items inside. If I think I may need it after an initial phone call, or actually looking at the job, I put it on the truck.Your truck would carry a Vantage sized machine & as far as everything else, put what you need on the truck & load up according to each job. In my experience, I have found that lugging a bunch of stuff around "just in case" just seems to be impractical at the end of the day. Bottom line is this: You will have to either live with what you have now, or spend money for a bigger truck, generator, welder, etc if you want to carry all your gear & the machinery as well. If you strip it down to only what you need, it would most likely be completely doable with the truck you have now. If you aren't using it every day, or be it a special tool that really pays for itself when you do, forget it & build a simple system that works for most of the work you do.I still am in favor of going to a Vantage/Miller diesel machine & ditching this cumbersome setup you have now. Simple is always better.IMHO of course.
Reply:What about running a air conditioning compressor as a air compressor under the hood of your truck running off the fan belt. Have seen this a lot on trucks like yours where they need air occassionally but don't want to put up with a gas powered compressor. I think there was a guy on the Miller forum that built his on service bed installed one on his truck. They hydraulic compressor setups are very expensive if you don't plan on using it all day for large cfm tools.I use the gas powered 30 gallon IR compressor of my service truck for 1" impact and oil pumps, the hydraulic ones are quieter and put out more cfm but cost and weigh a lot more.I would agree with running a exhaust pipe underneath your truck with additonal muffler, we did this with the old service truck and seemed to cut the noise in half and still performed ok.
Reply:When I was a kid my Dad remodeled dentist and doctors offices. He ran off scuba tanks when he couldn't run a compressor due to noise. Sure, it wasn't ideal on large jobs. I think the tanks held 80 cubic feet. He had a dozen or so that he'd bring up the elevator. It was always dry and clean air. Plus he could expense his scuba hobby
Reply:What are you using compressed air for? I have seen more than a few service trucks, set up with compressed nitrogen or liquid CO2 tanks, with regulators, for running air tools.A cheap work-around for electric air-compressors run off generators, get a gas engined compressor, remove the engine, put an electric motor in it's place. You will either have a compressor-head unloader on it, or a spit-valve (in addition to the overpressure safety valve), start the compressor motor up at 0 psi, and let it run continuous. There will be a very small spike in amps, with the motor always spinning, when the low pressure limit is reached, and you start pumping air again, vs. trying to start an electric motor under a load.
Reply:Originally Posted by 10speedWhat about running a air conditioning compressor as a air compressor under the hood of your truck running off the fan belt. Have seen this a lot on trucks like yours where they need air occassionally but don't want to put up with a gas powered compressor. I think there was a guy on the Miller forum that built his on service bed installed one on his truck. They hydraulic compressor setups are very expensive if you don't plan on using it all day for large cfm tools.I use the gas powered 30 gallon IR compressor of my service truck for 1" impact and oil pumps, the hydraulic ones are quieter and put out more cfm but cost and weigh a lot more.I would agree with running a exhaust pipe underneath your truck with additonal muffler, we did this with the old service truck and seemed to cut the noise in half and still performed ok.
Reply:Originally Posted by jsfabWhat are you using compressed air for? I have seen more than a few service trucks, set up with compressed nitrogen or liquid CO2 tanks, with regulators, for running air tools.A cheap work-around for electric air-compressors run off generators, get a gas engined compressor, remove the engine, put an electric motor in it's place. You will either have a compressor-head unloader on it, or a spit-valve (in addition to the overpressure safety valve), start the compressor motor up at 0 psi, and let it run continuous. There will be a very small spike in amps, with the motor always spinning, when the low pressure limit is reached, and you start pumping air again, vs. trying to start an electric motor under a load.
Reply:I have no doubt that my big air cooled vantage 500 could pull a compressor and a plasma at the same time. I ran two XMT's off of a spider box this week and it worked fine. before i bought my vantage 500 i talked to ALOT of service tech's and end users about the miller and Lincoln line ups. everyone said that the commander and vantage 400's were to be avoided and that the 500's were where it was at. i bought my air cooled vantage about a week before they released the 500 compacts. but i would still buy the air cooled for my application anyway. I'm thinking a vantage 500 compact with the kubota would be perfect for what your looking for. Forget the air pack. A handy piece of info to have is if you find a screaming published deal on a new Lincoln machine on the Internet that Airgas will price match. they also load banked my vantage for me before i picked it up and broke it in right.Vantage 500's LN-25's, VI-400's, cobramatics, Miller migs, synch 350 LX, Powcon inverters, XMT's, 250 Ton Acurrpress 12' brake, 1/4" 10' Atlantic shear,Koikie plasma table W/ esab plasmas. marvel & hyd-mech saws, pirrana & metal muncher punches.
Reply:Originally Posted by DesertRider3310-speed, thanks for bringing that up about the under-hood belt driven compressors. I had forgotten about them. Now I remember I had read about one that VanAir made. www.vanair.com. I looked on their website and I guess they dont make it anymore. I did find some outdated info on it on a couple other equipment supplier websites. It was called the Stealth, came in 70 and 140 cfm models. I also looked at another one currently being made, by VMAC Air, in Canada. www.vmacair.com. This one is very similar to the VanAir Stealth and comes in a small 70 cfm model and a bigger 100-something model. This seems like just about a perfect solution for the air compressor. I have no idea the price. I did look on the website and they only make it for newer trucks. No models available for my old gas engine Ford.What kind of air flow capacity can be had by using an air conditioner pump as an air compressor? My thinking is it would probly put out enough air for filling tires and such, but probly not nearly enough to run a plasma or air arc. I have heard of offroaders using old Ford style a/c compressors, like the big brick one I have in my 69 Bronco, as under hood belt driven compressor for airing up tires on the trail or light intermittent use of an impact wrench or chisel to do trailside repairs.
Reply:You can get a small twin tank IR wheel barrow style gas compressor like mine it put out 14.5 scfm at 175 psi.
Reply:A little tough love here, Desertrider .....Seems you are a little afraid of making the next jump up on your equipment .... takes a bigger truck.Let me tell you, I started with a F250, 9' bed. Moved up to a F350, 12' bed. Everybody I knew, told me this was the wrong thing, "how are you gonna get that into the livestock yards, how you gonna snake that huge thing into those tight spots???? Simple, just get longer cables, still charge the same whether work or walk. After a certain period of time, because of increased capabilities, picked up enough new well-paying customers that it didn't matter if I lost some of the old ones.Jump forward a few more years, picked up a BIG IHC, 20' bed. Same thing, all the advice was the same. Reality, picked up more higher-value work, work-flow didn't slow down at all. Yeah, I lost the auction-yard, but got so much more from elsewhere.Turns out, most of the advice, the be careful expanding stuff, came from the folks that wanted me to continue providing service, for low dollars , when for just a little more investment, I could make double the money, of course not having a nice small compact go-anywhere rig like before.One of the worst mistakes I see guys make, is wanting to save the nickel and dime work, while trying to break into the real money work. If you are in business for yourself, then dammit, man-up.
Reply:The point is, Desertrider, it's not a static world we live in.
Reply:jsfab, Different scenarios for different people I guess?..Coming from someone who has gone from a pickup truck full of tools to a 30ft gooseneck equipment trailer to a 48' enclosed semi trailer with everything mobile and all the tools I own inside, I have to admit, I have a much different viewpoint to share. The DOT is making my life miserable everytime i cross a state line, the insurance is getting worse each renewal period. Even the local troopers pull me over for spot checks all the time. I never get so much as second look when I'm using my pickup though. Everything just keeps adding up against it when I do my annual reports. Not saying this is not a good option for everyone, but to turn your back on a solid customer group that you've built up over the years is not a very good option to me either. Accessibility in SoCal is miserable, I've been there. Worked in San Diego for years, dealt with the parking, dealt with the thieves, got more than my share of neighboring businesses complaining I am blocking their customer access. I was working out of a retired Ryder van body truck then. Just being able to park my equipment at my house without some miserable trophy wife calling the code officer/zoning dept is worth staying within the confines of a pickup truck. I lived in North Park and Chula Vista, if it wasn't for my ability to park my truck on the Naval base, I would have had no chance of keeping thieves or a tow truck from dragging it off at night. Not sure where Desert lives, but upgrading to a truck you can't keep at home anymore may not be worth the job or increased GVWR. I'm going back down to a pickup truck in the near future. There is enough money in the small work to make more than a good living. I rarely had to leave my mom and pop type customer base when I did get bigger to stay busy, the larger jobs were more money, but they were also more headache to deal with at the same time. DesertRider, Electric powered air compressors are not the bad to rely on. I've been running a small Home Depot 220 volt 10-12 cfm compressor off my Pro 300 for the last 2 weeks. It has run my Cutmaster 38 plasma cutter and the compressor simultaneously withouy any issue. (I don't even recall it coming off of idle to do so, hard to tell since the compressor is louder than the Pro 300) The electric motor is alot lighter than a gas engine and the tank is large enough to keep up with the plasma cutter for just about every cut I've had to do. The Pro 300's can be found with under 3,500 hours on them for $4,500 or less. I am so happy with mine, especially it's db output. There is a Pro 300 at the LWS for sale right now, it was truck mounted and has sun fade and scratches on it, but I'm betting you could get it for under $4,000 easily. I can the contact info for the seller if you like. The weld shop would handle the consignment, so you wouldn't be dealing with an individual. If you need someone to line up getting it to a freight terminal on this end, I'd be happy to do that for you for nothing. |
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发表于 2021-9-1 00:22:20