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Finally decided to tackle a big project to put my skills to the test, along with my welding/grinding/fabricating skills.I will be making a Front winch Bumper for my ZJ, over the next...while. I guess when ever I get time. Spring break will provide lots of opportunities, which is next week. I just ordered my Winch from www.WinchDepot.com and should recieve that next week probably monday. $299.95 shipped, however they have it listed for $284.95 shipped so I will see if I can get that price instead. For some reason it goes to 299 when you add to cart. Winch is pictured without the control box.Smittybilt Winches - XRC8 Winch * XRC8 Winch * Line Pull: 8000 lbs. * Voltage: 12V * Motor: 4.1 hp * Remote Control: 12 Ft. Lead * Gear Ratio: 265:1 * Size: 21 in. x 6.22 in. x 7.28 in. * Weight: 80 lbs. * Wire rope: 92 Ft. of 5/16 * Fairlead Roller * Type of Winch: Electric"The new Smittybilt XRC-8 Winch encompassses all the best features you would want in a winch. Every XRC-8 (8000 lb) winch features a 4.1HP Permanent Magentic Motor and a Planetary Gear Sytem with 265:1 gear ratio that will deliver you power and reliability without hitting your pocket book."Anyway, for those of you with ZJ's know there arent many options out there besides CRB (not winch version), and Kevins Offroad (Very nice, yet run about $850 shipped). And, the recently discontinued Hanson Offroad Bumper line. Since this is not a TJ, you have to find your own mounting points. I have chose the framerails. I will grind out the frame rails to acieve the flat part (will see picture). One I finish Grinding that out I will use 3" x 2" x 1/4" Angle Mild Steel in there. 2" being width, 3 inches being height. The gap when fully cut is 5" x 2". I will then take my nuts that match up with the threads of some grade 8 bolts, and weld them to the angle steel in the correct places. This way I can tighten the bolt without screwing around with a wrench too. The Angle Mounts will stick out probably a foot or two from the flush part of the bumper fascia, and here is where I will mount my winch. I will have a plate of steel the length of the gap, and probably about 7 inches wide, 1/4" thick. I will weld this fully to the angle iron with some angle left still. gussets and all types of supports will be put into action. For added security, I will drill 2 holes on each side, 4 total through the winch mounting plate and through the angle iron on the top, but to the left and right sides. I will put grade 8 bolts in here, with nuts on the other side. This ensures that if the welds fails for some reason the bolts should catch it. I will also weld a fair lead mount on the front face of the mounting plate. The entire mounting system will be 1/4" Steel.From here, I have yet to decide what to do. I figure if I make the rest of the bumper with 1/4" steel it will be heavier than the Jeep itself (not really, but darn heavy) and I would rather have the stress go to the mounts when pulling, not just from every day driving. So I was thinking 1/8" for the rest of the bumper? I already have tow points in the front, so I do not need D-Ring mounts. The rest of the bumper would just be for show anyway, with some possible mounts for my Hellas.Thanks for reading. All input appreciated greatly. I am only 16, not an engineer so dont completely cuss me out lol.Let me know what you think-PatI'm 21 and learningAvid 4wd enthusiastASE Master tech (Automotive), mechanic/fabricator by trade
Reply:Man for what its worth and Im no pro. Ya might wana hold your grinder a little different there, Your in a good position for an accident watin to happen. As far as Im concerned your sparks should never fly away from the handle like in your pic. This is bad cause if the wheel takes ahold the whole works at best is headed toward your right leg, at worst the boys could be in harms wayThat could make for a bad day.I have 2 guys at work that I have to tell every time they use a cut off wheel, sparks fly to the right 90 degrees or toward the handle. One guy even had the cahonas to say (man what do I do to keep my hand from getting hot)I had to tell him to move his hand or move the sparks!!!!Anyhow I would hate to hear ya got hurt. Codoos to you for the ambition to learn and start a project at your age. I wish I would have startedd welding when I was your age.I waited till I was 33.Good luck to yaTomNote to self.......The jacket in the avatar pic is Not for welding....EVER
Reply:Good project for ya Redhatman! I may be out to lunch but here's a thought. It looks like your sticking a piece of angle inside the framerail, correct? I'm thinking about the mount point (and this may be overkill) but with angle iron you'll only be bolting to one side of the frame rail. If you were to use 2"X3" rectangle (4 sided) you would be able to bolt right through the rect. tube and both sides of the rail. The mounting point could be further enhanced (crush-proofed) with some small pipe welded into the rect. tube for the bolts to pass through. Have fun & play safe.If you don't want to stand behind our Troops, feel free to stand in front of them.
Reply:I would agree with SWells, use the rectangle tube and some pipe for bushings.as for the face of the bumper:1/8" will be fine, but make sure that you have good supports.I would add the d-ring shakles anyway, because the OE tow hooks are notoriously bad at staying attatched to the vehicle.and they add a spot to run your winch line to in case you only have one winch where ever you happen to be.running the winch line through a pully and back to the vehicle will DOUBLE the pull rating of the winch.so extra support is always a good thing.
Reply:Wells, I cannot use rectangle tube. There is the other bolts in the way on the bottom of the rails, and I cannot get bolts through on the insides being the radiator is there.scrappie, they are not OE Tow hooks. They are aftermarket, I just got them not long ago. They are designed to pull off both rails at once. It basicalyl looks like this:l--------------lD Dwith the D's being the d rings. the l is where is attatches to the rails.I'm 21 and learningAvid 4wd enthusiastASE Master tech (Automotive), mechanic/fabricator by trade
Reply:Looks like a fun project!Y'know, I dunno if I should admit this or not, but when I zipcut, grind or whatever, I don't even use a guard. A lot of the time at work, it gets in the way. as long as you use a face shield or stay out of the spark stream of death and cut in the direction the disk turns, there isn't really anything to worry about! If it hooks an edge, you're f*@$@d, but if you're careful how you do it, you'll be fine. On that, it's good to see you're using a guard on your grinder!Wire wheels are fun, I watched a co-worker hook an edge that caused the grinder to kick back and maul the crotch of his coveralls. Coulda been worse, I suppose!Last edited by mb_welder; 03-18-2008 at 08:57 AM.
Reply:Originally Posted by scrappile...running the winch line through a pully and back to the vehicle will DOUBLE the pull rating of the winch.so extra support is always a good thing.
Reply:Originally Posted by scrappilerunning the winch line through a pully and back to the vehicle will DOUBLE the pull rating of the winch.so extra support is always a good thing.
Reply:Originally Posted by redhatman I will then take my nuts that match up with the threads of some grade 8 bolts, and weld them to the angle steel in the correct places. -Pat
Reply:Originally Posted by elvergonPlease don´t do that to them!
Reply:A snatch block can change the angle that you are pulling, but in a single line pull gives no mechanical advantage. However if you run the line from your vehicle out to the snatch block that is connected to an anchor point and back to the vehicle you have increased your mechanical advantage. If you add a couple more snatch blocks to the anchor point and on the vehicle and run the line through them also you can increase your mechanical advantage even more.( longer explination at link below)Example*************************> = vehicleO = block# = anchor- |= line 1. >-----------O| | | | # No mechanical advantage, 1 pound of pull required for each pound of lift/tension.( hmmm can't get the line and anchor to line up right on the first one it should be at a right angle to the block) 2. >----------------O| >-----------------| Mechanical advantage = 2/1 1 pound of pull results in 2 pounds of lift/tension. Info from Below ******** taken from http://www.dodgepowerwagon.com/glovebox/snatch.htmlAlso Page 17 of the warn PDF below has an Illustration http://warn.com/corporate/images/90/...US.readers.pdfLast edited by bigmike6970; 03-18-2008 at 09:12 PM.
Reply:It Is possible to double the power, yet the line has to be able to withstand it.As of now, I really cannot decide whether or not to mount the winch plate on the brackets and then the rest of the bumper separate, or to have brackets, with a bumper separate as one piece and then have the winch plate on there.Both have advantages/disadvantages. With the winch on the mounting plate, I will trust it a ton more. However, the bumper would be harder to mount steadily onto the brackets to a point where its fairly easy to remove.With the winchplate on the bumper itself, it would be easy to mount and such, however I would need to make the entire bumper 1/4" to prevent bending.With the winch on brackets I would do all the mounting 1/4" and then the rest of the bumper 1/8" being it is just for show anyway.What do you guys think? Any Ideas?Last edited by redhatman; 03-18-2008 at 11:10 PM.I'm 21 and learningAvid 4wd enthusiastASE Master tech (Automotive), mechanic/fabricator by trade
Reply:Picked up some Grade 8 bolts for my soon to be front winch bumper build. Cleared out what was in stock at the store, have to wait for more to come in now.I'm 21 and learningAvid 4wd enthusiastASE Master tech (Automotive), mechanic/fabricator by trade
Reply:If you fab up the combined bumper/mount will you be able to use the existing bumper mounts to double up on the mounting points? Let me try that again, would you end up with a bumper/winch mounted in 4 locations (inside the frame rails X2 and existing bumper mount X2).If you don't want to stand behind our Troops, feel free to stand in front of them.
Reply:The stock bumper mounts with plastic push style rivets. There are 3 right below the grill (not into a frame) and then also it mounts in the wheel wells, on the splash guards.... stupid mounting for a winch bumper. The only strong mounts are the Unibody Rails. I am really leaning towards the winch/bracket combo but just need to think of a way to attatch the rest of the bumper cleanly to the brackets so it is sturdy too. It would be a nightmare to have it come off on the highway :OI'm 21 and learningAvid 4wd enthusiastASE Master tech (Automotive), mechanic/fabricator by trade
Reply:You can see that there is room in there, however those bolts that are in there do have to go back in. I know for sure the right side wall nut plate is removable, and I would assume the bottom one is aswell. These were involved in the Radiator Supports/Tow Pointz. I really would love to run some 2"x4" in there, but I do not know how to get the bolts and nuts to line up without lots of hassle. That is why I was thinking of :I would trim to accommodate that angle steel there. The 2 nut plates, technically pull at the same time being there is an L bracket for the radiator support hugging the rail (90 degrees) that bolts into all 4 bolts. So I should be safe in just mounting to the 2 bolts in both sides right? (Other side is identical)Other than that, I don't know what to do. ???I'm 21 and learningAvid 4wd enthusiastASE Master tech (Automotive), mechanic/fabricator by trade
Reply:Well, I just thought of something a lot better. It's 12:35 AM and this bumper thing is driving me nuts, I just want to get a solid plan so I am ready to work thursday when I have the day off (ironically enough) I get a day off, and spend the whole day working on other things lol.So basically, assuming when I take out the 4 bolts per channel both plates can be moved, I will just make something like this: That way, there is plenty of support when pulling from all angles, and I use a total of 8 bolts in the rails alone...All Grade 8. My steel supply does not show a 2x4 channel, only 2 x 4 x 1/4" rectangle tubes. I would do that, but how am I supposed to get the nuts inside there?I'm 21 and learningAvid 4wd enthusiastASE Master tech (Automotive), mechanic/fabricator by trade
Reply:Can you drill straight through both sides of the rail and use longer bolts to sandwich the rect. tubes in there?If you don't want to stand behind our Troops, feel free to stand in front of them.
Reply:Originally Posted by SWellsCan you drill straight through both sides of the rail and use longer bolts to sandwich the rect. tubes in there?
Reply:I'm not sure how different a ZJ is from an XJ but here is what some are doing with an XJ back to the unibody.
Reply:Jeep07, thanks for the pics. That is basically what I will be doing. I also have added a very neat design for tow points I think. I just do not like how I will have to make different parts on the bumper due to the fact that it would be too heavy otherwise. I will upload some pics when I get home, I mocked some up in class today. I cannot get it out of my mind.Is that all one piece, all 1/4" steel?Last edited by redhatman; 03-19-2008 at 09:12 PM.I'm 21 and learningAvid 4wd enthusiastASE Master tech (Automotive), mechanic/fabricator by trade
Reply:when you double your line back with a snatch block, You double the pulling capacity of your winch. You also now have 2 cables running for two times the strength.The places you have to worry about strength are. From the hook on your snatch block to whatever it is pulling, and where you anchor the line that is running back to your winch.Joewww.CummingsHauling.com
Reply:UPDATE:Got to work on it tonight, I will get more steel tomorrow for the winch plate and a start on the bumper part. Mounts are done, I went with the 4 side ones which should be plenty. These are also tied to the lower 2 via the KOR Radiator Support/Tow Pointz.Bottom Nut Plate that came factory was welded in, so I had to think of a new plan (opposed to the angle steel in the rails) Its all 1/4" Steel Plate, all Grade 8 hardware, cut to fit, nuts welded to stay in place. I will have to drill out more holes tomorrow when I get the rest of my material. Winch also comes tomorrow. Seems to be a strong mounting point, I am sandwiching the frame at every screw so it should help that way also.At least I can stand on it and it doesnt break! LOL i hope it doesnt.Onto the pics:I'm 21 and learningAvid 4wd enthusiastASE Master tech (Automotive), mechanic/fabricator by trade
Reply:That's a good start, I've toyed with the idea of a brush guard on my 97. I'll be borrowing your ideas if I do it.If you don't want to stand behind our Troops, feel free to stand in front of them.
Reply:Thanks. I am going to pick up some steel right now, and I should have the winch mounted today.I'm 21 and learningAvid 4wd enthusiastASE Master tech (Automotive), mechanic/fabricator by tradeHey man, saw your post over on JF, looks like a good start. Just an FYI for future, take yourself down to Tractor Supply and they sell those bolts in bulk by the pound.At first I was gonna say you compromised the integrity of the front crossmember but your adding a Big *** bumper that didn't exist before so your all good.Come try it out and stay a while.
Reply:Originally Posted by rustywranglerAt first I was gonna say you compromised the integrity of the front crossmember but your adding a Big *** bumper that didn't exist before so your all good.
Reply:Made some progress yesterday. I got the new winch versionI'm 21 and learningAvid 4wd enthusiastASE Master tech (Automotive), mechanic/fabricator by trade
Reply:I got the angle mounted up, its 4x3" steel angle 15 inches long in pics, will be cut. then, 10x30"x1/4 steel plate for the winch. It will protrude all 10 inches, it seems to fit well there. I will be putting the 4 1/2" bolts through the winch plate aswell. Onto the pics.I'm 21 and learningAvid 4wd enthusiastASE Master tech (Automotive), mechanic/fabricator by trade
Reply:I'm 21 and learningAvid 4wd enthusiastASE Master tech (Automotive), mechanic/fabricator by trade
Reply:I could not lay down a full bead being my fuse breaker would go off if I held a bead for more than 5 seconds...I'm 21 and learningAvid 4wd enthusiastASE Master tech (Automotive), mechanic/fabricator by trade
Reply:You need to fix that man, you need a continous weldLooks pretty good thou!Last edited by elvergon; 03-22-2008 at 08:27 PM.My Babies: HF Drill pressHF Pipe Bender3 4.5" Black and Decker angle grindersLincoln Electric PROMIG 175that´s it!
Reply:Originally Posted by elvergonYou need to fix that man, you need a continous weld
Reply:Wow, that really needs to be continuous, not tacked. Tacks can shear.Come try it out and stay a while.
Reply:In order for that to happen I will have to get a better outlet or pay the welding shop. Eitherway, I will have 1/2 bolts holding it too grade 8. The winch is held in by 4 3/8 grade 5 bolts...I'm 21 and learningAvid 4wd enthusiastASE Master tech (Automotive), mechanic/fabricator by trade
Reply:If every piece is going to be held together with bolts then it should be ok. My stomach curled when i saw that u had that tacked that much, I dont think you could pull the weight of a stuck vehicle let alone weld it properly with that many tacks. With the Plate sitting on top of the angle like that makes it good for bolting but not good for welding. Good for bolting cause you have a little shelf for it to sit on, but bad for welding cause it makes it harder to do the weld on top. All else i wanna say is, now i want one for my pickup!Nothing Ever Got Done By Quitting, Never Give Up.
Reply:Haha doug, I agree. Trust me, I have been planning this thing out so much its not even funny anymore. So many drawings in class, and its all coming out well. I have some old really thin shelfs from work (probably 22 gauge) that I will see if I can tack together for the outer cosmetic stuff, I really dont want to buy a ton of 1/8" steel since I will need a lot, and they would be about $18 sections.Anyway, time will tell.You guys know of any ways to lock the winch from being stolen besides welding it down?I'm 21 and learningAvid 4wd enthusiastASE Master tech (Automotive), mechanic/fabricator by trade
Reply:"Custom Welding" wants $40 to run the beads....I will find someone elseI'm 21 and learningAvid 4wd enthusiastASE Master tech (Automotive), mechanic/fabricator by trade
Reply:Can you take your welder to a friends garage / shop that won't kick out the circuit breaker?If you don't want to stand behind our Troops, feel free to stand in front of them.
Reply:I bit the bullet, talked to the guys at the lws and they said they could cut out the other side and run all beads over for $40 total. Dropped it off, will pick up in the morning. That way I dont have to screw with the angle grinder almost cutting off my nuts another 6 times....Plus it should be a nice clean plasma cut.I'm 21 and learningAvid 4wd enthusiastASE Master tech (Automotive), mechanic/fabricator by trade
Reply:Onwards you go to the next step......If you don't want to stand behind our Troops, feel free to stand in front of them.
Reply:Here is where I got to last night, winch now lines up, 4 1/2" bolts are through both the winch plate and angle, and one side is cut out aswell as a funtional d-ring. Welding shop is in charge of running beads on the entire thing, and cutting out other side. The more feedback the better. Thanks for looking.I'm 21 and learningAvid 4wd enthusiastASE Master tech (Automotive), mechanic/fabricator by trade
Reply:Nice project.Do you have a generator available. Perhaps you could locate/barrow for your finishing welds. 20-30 amps would help your wire feeder tremendously.
Reply:Thanks for the tip, at work (the auto shop) today I will check out our outlets to see what they are rated for. Maybe if I ever need to weld 1/4" again I would go there.I'm 21 and learningAvid 4wd enthusiastASE Master tech (Automotive), mechanic/fabricator by trade
Reply:Is that shackle through some 1/4" plate only? I would worry that the hole will stretch and bend if you put a lot of force on it. Why even have the shackle since you have a winch? Just to hold the hook? Keep plugging along. It looks like your learning a lot and having fun while doing it.
Reply:Originally Posted by Jeep07Is that shackle through some 1/4" plate only? I would worry that the hole will stretch and bend if you put a lot of force on it. Why even have the shackle since you have a winch? Just to hold the hook? Keep plugging along. It looks like your learning a lot and having fun while doing it.
Reply:Thanks for the input.As far as the tabs, I am going to slightly reinforce them by putting washers over them and then welding, but no other plans. They are only for looks, to hook the winch to and if for some reason I cannot get to my other tow points.I do have other front tow points though.I'm 21 and learningAvid 4wd enthusiastASE Master tech (Automotive), mechanic/fabricator by trade
Reply:Originally Posted by redhatmanThanks for the input.As far as the tabs, I am going to slightly reinforce them by putting washers over them and then welding, but no other plans. They are only for looks, to hook the winch to and if for some reason I cannot get to my other tow points.I do have other front tow points though.
Reply:Today I finished the "Bumper" which is more of a winch mount. I ended up just severely hacking up my stock bumper for the sides of the new one. I think it looks, decent. I made the light mounts, license plate mount, worked on the PITA Clevis holes, and grinded some welds, and made them look pretty. It is in my garage right now drying the last coat of primer. Will do 3 layers of brown paint tomorrow, or should I do black? I will sleep on it and decide tomorrow.Here are pics of the welds. I'm 21 and learningAvid 4wd enthusiastASE Master tech (Automotive), mechanic/fabricator by trade
Reply:That should hold!My Babies: HF Drill pressHF Pipe Bender3 4.5" Black and Decker angle grindersLincoln Electric PROMIG 175that´s it! |
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发表于 2021-9-1 00:20:16