Gate design and cost

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hey all, looking for some advice. The town approached me about building them a gate for an old abandoned dump to keep vehicles out. some guy drove in there and sunk his truck and it took a bulldozer to pull him out. they had been putting up chain between some trees but people keep stealing it.The entrance that it needs to gate off is about 25 feet wide. I was going to use 2"x2x"x14gage to make two 12.5 foot gates that swing from each sides. Was going to have two rails with 3 uprights(one on each end and one in the middle). Then for the posts was going to use 4"x4"x3/16" and try to get it at least 4 feet into the ground.does this sound overkill? also I priced out materials (steel, rod, paint etc..) and it's about $400. how much is reasonable to change for fabrication and installation on something like this?any help would be great....thanks
Reply:four wheel trucks will try to push it down.The fence will need short pointed devices sticking out above the level of a child's head, so that if they try to push it over their radiator will be punctured. Something visual that they will see and prevent them from thinking about it, and getting their truck damaged.Also you can get fake video cameras for about 30 bucks and put those on poles so they cannot inspect them. Make sure they can see a cable going to the camera.
Reply:The cameras are so they don't steal the gates? Lets be honest, The town is talking about this. Most townships spend ungodly amounts of money on the silliest things. $400 for gate materials is pocket change. A light pole in our township is $15K. Thats just the cast alum pole! The light is extra. Don't even ask how much the little corner park and the clock cost. 8 figure #'s.
Reply:does this sound overkill? --Sounds like under-kill. Awfully light weight for keeping folks out.14 ga. 2 x 2 is really light weight.      Quarries, etc. often use big pipe or square tubing--stout stuff, to minimize damage.Suggest you consider some manner of padlock box, covering the padlock to reduce the chance of fiddling with the padlock. If it was me--I'd have a face to face discussion, with the principal person, as to 'just how stout do they want this gate?'also I priced out materials (steel, rod, paint etc..) and it's about $400. how much is reasonable to change for fabrication and installation on something like this?--Estimates are written down on paper. This helps one think. Begin with a sketch of what you're going to make, with at least, rough dimensions.In-shop labor consists of everything req'd. to do the job.List each item, then estimate the time required.Cut, clean, deburr, chamfer, bevel, layout, fitupMake up a cut list and bill of materials, from your sketch. A cut list, even with approx. cut lengths, lets you plan, quote and do the job--for your estimate.  Example: Can you get (2) 12' out of (1) 20'? Or can you get 24' sticks? What is planned for the drops?           ****An accurate cut list, can save your bacon.Ditto the above for the field install.You may want to factor in some time for quoting, site visits, and shop drawing/layout.With the times totaled, then multiply by a shop hourly rate and a field hourly rate. As you do the job, then keep track of your actual times vs. the estimated.This is how we learn to estimate--closer. Being able to halfway estimate costs,helps you get the jobs that pay well and avoid the ones that don't. This way, you also know, what is a 'fair' price and what is not. Worksheet estimates can also serve--if well planned and thought out--as the outline of just how the work will proceed.On most fab. items of any consequence--and especially with gov't. agencies--you need to spell out, everything (with sketches) in a written quote--along with your payment/delivery/ terms & conditions clauses, etc.; and THE COLOR OF THE GATE!It's highly prudent to have the customer sign off on this estimate/work order.  "If it ain't in writing, it ain't so!"With the ongoing rises in materials and labor--I don't get the least bit embarrassed about giving accurate labor and material costs, right in my quote.Blackbird
Reply:I would suggest you use 4" pipe minimum diameter with at least a 3/16" wall.  Make one gate with appropriate sized posts.  I would make the gate like 12' wide and have the town fill the rest of the area with large boulders.  No sense in building two gates when all that is needed is one.
Reply:The pole gate sounds like the cheapest and the safest.because if I'm not mistaken anything stretched between two posts, trees, poles, rocks, buildings etc. etc. wither it be chain, cable or rope is illegal!Miller Thunderbolt 225Millermatic 130 XPLincoln HD 100 Forney C-5bt Arc welderPlasma Cutter Gianteach Cut40ACent Machinery Bandsaw Cent Machinery 16Speed Drill PressChicago Electric 130amp tig/90 ArcHobart 190 Mig spoolgun ready
Reply:Just my opinion.Lots of times gates are heavy because that is what is available.  Quarries probably don't deal with companies that use 14g for anything.  I did a job for an engineer who had one of his client build a garden gate.  The gate was built out of 1/4" and 3/16 steel because that is what the client dealt with.I think your material selection is fine.  11g would be the max I would go for the gate though, but 14g ain't going to just fall down.  To get the most out of my post, I set a plate in the ground with a plate.  I would weld a 3.5' post to the plate and set is in the ground/concrete.  I do most of my gates this way.  The larger foot print add stability and keep water from collecting about the base of the post.  You can also add gusset or do multipass weld to add strength at the plate.  Check out metal light post and bill boards.  It also seperates the operation of digging and installation.  Installation is shortened considerably when all you have to do is weld the post.   I don't Know about your design.  I would say $1200-$1500 for a simple design.  Don't go too low thinking it is a simple build. because good proper jigging or  restraigening due to no jigging may make a simple one day build become two or three days. Cool Idea,  radiator piercing devices.
Reply:Five or six sch. 40 x 4" ID sunk in the ground and concreted would work just fine. Fill them with 'crete as well. It's abandoned so nobody needs to get in or out.John -  fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!-  bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:I would definitely be looking into whether or not the posts can be pulled out with a truck. You never know what kids will do; they may see it as a challenge or a nice gate to put up at there farm. Maybe a plate welded around the post that is under the ground a couple of feet?
Reply:Alright, well this gives me some ideas. I was getting worried that it would be too expensive, they wanted something simple because they just had chain or something up before and didn't have a problem till that guy drove in there then the government noticed and sent them a letter saying that they needed a gate.This is kind of my first real fab job for someone and the town is pretty small, but I guess I should be more realistic than nice... definitely have to go with the concrete around the ground posts, I have access to a gas powered auger and the soil is pretty sandy so that shouldn't be too much of a problem.Well I'll try to hand in a quote tomorrow and hope for the best....see how it goes