More Pics Pics Pics!!!!!!

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There will be more pics of the exhaust build when I get home..It's really sad that the original thread had to be locked..MAC702 and everyone else..No I do not have the capabilitys to Lock,Ban,or Edit any thread..However all I have to do is snap my fingers..The build continues..The boat owner will send me a few pics after they are installed and Getting Inspected By The Coast Guard..He has been in contact with them and so far they approve..So to those that dissaproveHard cheeze.Pics later.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Nice one ZapI guess the moral of the story is if you have a point to make, by all means make it but in a way that doesn't get peoples backs up.We are after all, all adults here and ulimately more than capable of thinking and making decisions for ourselves, you can never have to much information I guess, thats why we are all here right? but ultimately every individual has to make thier own choices and shouldn't be called names or insulted just because some people don't agree with them.I've only been on this forum a short time but I like it here, I just hope this does'nt happen too often, it just spoils it for everyone.I hope the coastgaurd approves of everything and that can be the end of it.
Reply:Can't wait to see the finished project.Miller DVI2Lincoln Precision Tig 225Thermodynamics Cutmaster 38Everything else needed.
Reply:I can't wait to eat more of Mrs. Zaps cookies !  John -  fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!-  bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterThere will be more pics of the exhaust build when I get home..It's really sad that the original thread had to be locked..
Reply:mark8310, I was gonna stay out of this, finding all the critics quite amusing.But.... your comments about Coast Guard Inspectors was way wrong. Obviously you haven't dealt with them yourself. The USCG has some very thorough marine inspectors. Every spring we have to go through many inspections before we sail for the season, and anytime there is a marine casulty, they will be right on the spot, any time, day or night.The best way to deal with them is to be very open and honest. If they catch you covering up, your vessel will sit in port until the problem is fixed.The above IS NOT an opinion. It is fact. I am a professional licensed marine engineer and deal with the USCG on a near daily basis.Richard TerryMarine engineer.............  C'mon retirement!
Reply:mark8310..Where have I in the other post "Give it" to someone..I don't throw the first punch..I let fine people as yourself get things going..Get your facts straight next time..All I did was post pics of a job I'm doing..So to you I say this..Have a nice day....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Good lord, where are the punctuation police when you need them? John -  fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!-  bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:OK now on with the show..Parts to be welded..I think I'll start with this piece welded to that piece..Welded..Now I think I'll do these pieces..Next!...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:OK..Those parts welded..Now this to that..Welded..Mounting flange time..Welded..Next!...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Suh !  duh you mean to stan' theh, an tell me  we done lost the wah-wuh ?  "HUH"?[SIZE="5"Yardbird"
Reply:Flange to body..Welded..This was trickey because there is little room to work with..View from the top..That's how I did it..Just turn the gas up to 30 or so to do this..Next!...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Exhaust flange top..Exhaust flange side..There..Almost done..Front..Note from my boss..There you have it..I'll do the other one tomorrow A.M.I get all the fun jobs.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:looks good ZAP,,is that a granite table ???
Reply:Originally Posted by complooks good ZAP,,is that a granite table ???
Reply:Originally Posted by Roy HodgesSuh !  duh you mean to stan' theh, an tell me  we done lost the wah-wuh ?  "HUH"?
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterYeah..Kinda looks like one now don't it..But I guess it's steel..It does conduct electricity.....zap!
Reply:I really think that Zap and us, could be being fed disinformation.I don't believe that Whino builds gasoline marine engines, and I'm not so sure that the owner is converting liquid cooled exhaust, to air cooled.Big gas engines, at heavy loads, make lots of exhaust heat.  It was common for gas engines in heavy trucks to glow the exhaust manifolds and head pipes cherry red when pulling hard. Most marine engines are rated higher, and work even harder, than their highway counterparts; they could probably melt a mild steel manifold. I think it would be recipe for a Viking burial, to eliminate liquid exhaust cooling without other modifications. I believe that the boat owner knows that too.Zap's work on the project certainly looks excellent.Last edited by denrep; 05-02-2008 at 07:29 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by Yamahammermark8310, I was gonna stay out of this, finding all the critics quite amusing.But.... your comments about Coast Guard Inspectors was way wrong. Obviously you haven't dealt with them yourself. The USCG has some very thorough marine inspectors. Every spring we have to go through many inspections before we sail for the season, and anytime there is a marine casulty, they will be right on the spot, any time, day or night.The best way to deal with them is to be very open and honest. If they catch you covering up, your vessel will sit in port until the problem is fixed.The above IS NOT an opinion. It is fact. I am a professional licensed marine engineer and deal with the USCG on a near daily basis.
Reply:Why so much undercut?DewayneDixieland WeldingMM350PLincoln 100Some torchesOther misc. tools
Reply:Originally Posted by littlefuzzWhy so much undercut?
Reply:One other thing, Yamma, while I'm not a "marine engineer", and have no fancy titles, I have built some significant parts of various boats over the years ....  and have consulted with the coast guard for clarification of various rules and regulations while doing so  (remember ....  research, research, what I do I'm responsible for!!!).   At no time, when doing the final certification or inspection or whatever it is they do before allowing you to put the boat on the water, has any USCG inspector ever contacted me, inquiring about my qualifications or certifications for welding whatever parts or structures involved ......   I get more hassles from the Department of Defense, for welding 3/8 nuts onto armorplate, than from the USCG for welding pontoons, motor mounts, hulls, decks, etc., or installing control cables, fuel lines, building and installing fuel tanks, whatever .....Last edited by mark8310; 05-02-2008 at 07:48 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by littlefuzzWhy so much undercut?
Reply:Originally Posted by David RPost 13, pic one, left side?  Optical dillusion?Nice work. There is a flex pipe some where ?David
Reply:Nice work, I have a question though, why does the manifold go down through what I guess is a sump instead of straight out? So it can capture unburnt fuel if the cylinder doesnt fire? Just trying to understand the design.Also "neccessity is the mother of invention!!"Originally Posted by MrRodeoCCNice work, I have a question though, why does the manifold go down through what I guess is a sump instead of straight out? So it can capture unburnt fuel if the cylinder doesnt fire? Just trying to understand the design.Also "neccessity is the mother of invention!!"
Reply:Mark, I suppose the Coast Guard is lax in your area, and dilligent on the Great Lakes. I do find that some Coast Guard officers are better than others.I have no fancy title myself, I'm just a marine engineer in charge of operation and maintenance of the engine department on iron ore freighters. We don't deal with MSHA, but have to conform to USCG, OSHA, ABS (Amer. Bureau of Shipping), EPA and union rules.Richard TerryMarine engineer.............  C'mon retirement!
Reply:Zap's pictures are of the elbow upside down from it's mounting position.Zap I have no problem with the way you welded the elbow.  I do have a problem with your "the owner is always right" mentality.This whole project doesn't make sense from the beginning.  First it was diesel, then it was gas.  I personally can't find any gas engine Hino has ever built.  Then it was the jackets will be water cooled, then they're not, they're going to get a Hott Shot treatment.  Oh yea, by the way, wrapping them voids the Hott Shot warranty. The engines are mounted four feet above the waterline (never happened on a Bayliner).  The list goes on and on.You need to get a qualified inspector to do your own inspection.  The liability is too great not to.  Do not count on the owner to be honest with you.  If he's trying to put a bandaid on the problem and unload the boat, you can still be held responsible.Are you saying that the rubber exhaust hose is to attach directly to your round outlet?  If that is in fact the case, that hose will last about 10 min. at operating RPM without water to cool it.I have delt with buyers and sellers of yachts for the last 20+ years.  Never underestimate the extremes either will go to fit their needs.Did anyone ever question the owner why he elected not to use stainless steel rather than cold steel.  Don't you think that would have been a better, longer term solution.This whole project has a fishy smell to it.  If you truly do like the company you work for and are looking out for their best interests, you need to ask a lot more questions of those "in the know" and I'm not talking about the owner.  You're getting some BS from that source.With regard to the Coast Guard, I have never known the Coast Guard to send out an inspector to do a "courtesy" inspection on an uninspected vessel, which most pleasure boats are.Get on the internet and look for NAMS (National Association of Marine Surveyors).  There are about 10 listed who work in your area.  Call a few of them and get their comments/recommendations.  Personally, I would ask them who does HINO Engine surveys in your area.  That individual would be better qualified than a regular "hull and valuation" surveyor.You do what you want, but I'm telling you again, YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND THE LIABILITY.  I suspect this owner is playing you like a fiddle.One more thing before I go.  I'm not an exhaust expert so hopefully one of them will chime in, but don't you think all those 90 degree bends will create excess turbulance in the system?  Back in my racing days we spent untold hours polishing the exhaust ports on outboard engines to reduce turbulance.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:I apreciate the info..We all do..But I think if the Coast Guard says OK then what the hay..I won't leave this "hanging" if I can help it..I'm curious for the finish also..And yes the orig's came with hose..And it is in fact a diesel..I wish someone would get the facts straight also..I'm no fiddler..Drummer....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Zap. Nice work as always. Just remember... if you don't pet the stray dog it will go away. "Every choice you make will effect at least one other person"
Reply:has the peice been fitted to the motor yet?  just wondering how the fitment turned outlooks awesome!!   nice trick on the narrow valley weld..  ill have to remember that.
Reply:Originally Posted by shott8283has the peice been fitted to the motor yet?  just wondering how the fitment turned outlooks awesome!!   nice trick on the narrow valley weld..  ill have to remember that.
Reply:Nice work as Zap. I am going to ask a "boat" related question From the last post I gather that it's an exhaust part? Why all the sections if it exhausts underwater?It serves what purpose?Me!
Reply:never mind did not see page 2... (the one with all the answers!) Me!
Reply:Very nice Zap! Gorgeous welds as usual, and a nice complex part as the finish! I'm thinking based upon the random comments that are unecessary, that possibly if the moderators think it is a good idea that a worklog only sub-forum (pictures of projects and information from the poster only) would be a good idea.  That way we don't have all the random silly distractions from peoples sometimes wacky and/or annoying opinions. --Wintermute"No man's knowledge here can go beyond his experience." - John Lockewww.improvised-engineering.comManufacturer Agnostic:Blood----------Sweat---------Tears----|------------------|----------------|----Lincoln Red, Miller Blue, Esab Yellow
Reply:good job as always ZAP ChuckASME Pressure Vessel welder
Reply:There...Twins!...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Did the customer need two or you just built another in case you get another demand for one?John -  fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!-  bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:Originally Posted by MicroZoneDid the customer need two or you just built another in case you get another demand for one?
Reply:Probably twin engines. The "split manifold" theory sounds like more propaganda! For what it's worth, I never saw an easier starting diesel engine than a Whino.Just barely grunt one over with a low battery, and it's running.
Reply:According to their site, Hino NOT WHINO (denrep), makes only diesel engines. If it is gas, then it has to be another manufacturer. :shrug:John -  fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!-  bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:Originally Posted by wintermuteVery nice Zap! Gorgeous welds as usual, and a nice complex part as the finish! I'm thinking based upon the random comments that are unecessary, that possibly if the moderators think it is a good idea that a worklog only sub-forum (pictures of projects and information from the poster only) would be a good idea.  That way we don't have all the random silly distractions from peoples sometimes wacky and/or annoying opinions. --Wintermute
Reply:I know nothing of Hino engines, but I do have a small boat witrh a Mercruiser I/O and know something about pleasure craft systems.The finished parts as pictured are 180 degrees upsidedown.  When installed they make an upsidedown "U" shape and may feed an "at or below waterline" exhaust port.  The upsidedown U is to channel the flow of seawater used for cooling into the outflow exhaust stream prevening the discharged seawater from back-washing into the exhaust manifold and the into the engine via the exhaust valves at low RPM or time of shutdown.If the exhaust ports are "at or below waterline" there may also be a flapper valve in-line downstream of this inverted U.  The flapper prevents wave action from backwashing seawater into the exhaust system when the engines are not running.Though I am not familiar with Hino engines, there are certain principals shared by most all inboard marine engines used on pleasure boats.  Judging from the pictures of the original parts there should be a water jacket around that U assembly that accepts seawater used for cooling, either directly from the engine water jacket (open system) or from the intercooler (closed system), and directs it into the exhaust stream on the downstream side of the U.  If no such jacket was fabricated into the replacement assembly then the system is not going to function properly and there are rocks ahead for anyone operating that boat.-MondoLast edited by Mondo; 05-03-2008 at 12:25 PM.Reason: correct a typoMember, AWSLincoln ProMIG 140Lincoln AC TombstoneCraftsman Lathe 12 x 24 c1935Atlas MFC Horizontal MillCraftsman Commercial Lathe 12 x 36 c1970- - - I'll just keep on keepin' on.
Reply:I was waiting to see the finished results and wasn't disappointed. You are a fine craftsman. Keep on posting pictures of your work and just ignore the ones who get on your case.
Reply:Originally Posted by MicroZone...Hino NOT WHINO (denrep)...
Reply:ZAP,Get your head out of the sand and stop listening to all the "ata boys" coming from your legion of followers who don't have a clue what they're talking about.Stop listening to the owner, the guy's an idiot (and maybe crooked to boot).Get on the phone and talk to some people that build marine exhaust systems "for a living".The design is faulty (excess backpressure) and totally unsafe as described.I have no axe to grind here and could care less about the legal ramifications.  What we're talking about is a "moral obligation".  Just trying to prevent an innocent bystander from getting hurt/killed.TO ALL THE POSTERS WHO DON'T HAVE A CLUE WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE:You need to STFU.  I have been around boats/yachts for 60 years and this is a dangerous build we're talking about.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:maybe something like this should've been built/ bought?
Reply:#1..They are not done yet...I apreciate what you have brought to the table..I learned alot here..So has everyone else..But at this point its "outta my hands"..I have told the owner and the bosses of your concern..We will wait and see what the Guard says..The owner has a heavy equipment co. in the area..We do mucho repair work for him and he has known the owners since dad opened the place..They are not worried and niether am I..Besides there are too many in front of me to start pointing fingers at..I'm just the welder..Thanks again this will be brought up Monday..Next time I do something questionable I'll call them Birdcages or something.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:I know you were just trying to put a spin on it but wanted to clarify, within the post, so most readers understand exactly what manufacturer we are talking about. Resume the witty comments, most are enjoyable.  ...as you were.  Originally Posted by denrepThanks, Micro.No wonder I have so much trouble.For a long time I even thought Chevy was Cheby and Caterpillar was Clatterpillar!I'll try to sharpen up!
Reply:Originally Posted by zapster#1..They are not done yet...I apreciate what you have brought to the table..I learned alot here..So has everyone else..But at this point its "outta my hands"..I have told the owner and the bosses of your concern..We will wait and see what the Guard says..The owner has a heavy equipment co. in the area..We do mucho repair work for him and he has known the owners since dad opened the place..They are not worried and niether am I..Besides there are too many in front of me to start pointing fingers at..I'm just the welder..Thanks again this will be brought up Monday..Next time I do something questionable I'll call them Birdcages or something.....zap!