What is an econotig capable of?

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Dear Welding Forum,I have noticed that people often ask what an Econotig is capable of - whether or not it will fit their needs.I thought this links shows that an econotig is quite capable of doing some great work:www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1394232Some of the welds in there show 1/8" aluminum joined to 1/2" aluminum plate...With an econotig.
Reply:you can tell whoever welded that was having some major amperage issues, granted some of the welds in the thinner sections of metal look ok at best, but the welds on the thicker section are less than desirable ( to put it nicely) the econotig  puts out like 150/160 amps, you are going to need a little more than that to weld 1/2", maybe some  pre heat with a oxy/ace torch would of helped with that thick sectionLast edited by elderthewelder; 11-09-2005 at 08:25 PM.
Reply:The low end is normallythe issue with the econotig
Reply:Ihave &stillown a econc tig since 1980(pre foot pedal)it will do light gage ss,steel,alum,just wont do thicker stuff very well (it will weld it)but with highee amps the part will crack due to no heat  control(remote foot pedal)the newer ones (with foot control)can do a better job BUT remember light material!These are good machines to learn how to tig weld onwithout having to spend alot of money.It will weld ss3/16 max 1/4steelmax&alumin,any thicker&the part /weld crack,this is on the older type machine,see it,use ti,buy it,&get to" weldin "    C  YA,Rick Beaver
Reply:Bottom line, I would be fired if I ran those welds!!!
Reply:elder,Maybe the welds aren't the best, but you don't need x-ray quality on an airbox for a car like this, but that's really beside the point of the post.  Someone did this with an econotig.  It is really hard to tell if the weld quality is from machine or operator issues or some combination.  My guess is that the machine's limits were being pushed and maybe the operator's also (judging from the beads on some of the thinner material), but if it works, hey, it's an example of what can be done with the econotig, maybe not the best example, granted, but AN example.  Most pro tiggers wouldn't think of using an econotig regularly, so the weldor is probably a weekender.  If that's the case, skill levels and access to equipment varies, so, keep that in mind.  It's pretty obvious that a lot of care was taken to build this the best that it could be, given all that was available at the time.  You give very good advise about preheat and stuff, that kind of information is always appreciated.Smithboy...if it ain't broke, you ain't tryin'.
Reply:Smithboypoint will taken, you are correct this is a good example of what the econotig can and can not do. I think it is a very good quality machine for welding up to it's rated output of 160 amps. To be perfectly honest I am surprised he even got the weld to adhere to those thick sections on the ends they, look like 1"+, so I give him credit for that. It looks like the guy spent alot of time fabbing that thing up and did a awesome job. but the weld job on it wasted all that guys hard work IMHO, but hey all his buddy's like it and think it looks great so I guess that's all that matters. and that is what I based my comments on, people saying those are "great welds".   my apologies if I offended anyoneLast edited by elderthewelder; 11-11-2005 at 11:41 AM.
Reply:I don't think anyone was offended.  I was just trying to add a different perspective.  I think context is important to keep in mind.  For instance, if this guy had welded up something of similar thickness but in a more critical environment, like some high performance aluminum A-arm on that very car, with that machine or these welds, he would be in serious trouble and might (or would) be risking his life and other lives also.    As it stands, these welds are pretty much cosmetic, and if they fail (and they might), his car will run rough or at worst sputter to the side of the road and leave him stranded (if he doesnt have any duct tape, that is).  But, I think your basic critique is very accurate.  Too thick for that machine.  I have access to 250 amps, and an inch thick without a lot of prep, preheat, and passes is pushing things in terms of quality....and, I probably wouldn't even do it if it were in a critical area.Smithboy...if it ain't broke, you ain't tryin'.
Reply:not to jump in and step on nobodys toes, but as a professional welder myself, which this honda man apparently isnt, I had to agree with elder and say although I do understand smith's approach, and on certain jobs, it dont matter how good it looks, or bad, as long as it does the job and customer is happy.  Still, I think that the limits of both man and machine were exceeded for producing the proper welds for that.  I think its another fine example of how our trade has fallen victim to overexdence of non-qualified individuals doing work that they have no business.  Ok, im off my box now and i feel better
Reply:Wow, and everyone over there has nothing but praise. hehe.Owner of Welding Wiki,The free wiki based resource for weldor's around the world.http://www.weldingwiki.comWe have cookies!
Reply:Ctardi,  yes everyone over there has nothing but praise but I get that a lot with farmers when they bring me out to a bush hog with a broken bracket, or wheel or cracked deck or something else on the farm.  I dont clean nothing, not even teh caca de torro,  and a 6011 will make it happen with all the hay and the dust and the manure, paint and grease.  But it sure dont look pretty.  No grinding whatso ever.   Yet they are always soo pleased.  They cant tell me how great it looks lol.   Folks who are welders are more critical to the details of the piece.  Non welders generally have no idea, as long as it resembles what they are looking for wow thats awesome cause I cant do it themselves.  It all depends on which side of the fence youre on dont ya thinkCHRIS
Reply:Imho, I would only use the ecnotig as a boat anchor.... I have used it before and its not a very good machine ( the r&d guys at miller wont ever lay claim to it)as far as the welds go......they arnt the best by any means BUT.....I give the dude credit for doing it.....Bonez
Reply:Originally Posted by bonezImho, I would only use the ecnotig as a boat anchor.... I have used it before and its not a very good machine ( the r&d guys at miller wont ever lay claim to it)as far as the welds go......they arnt the best by any means BUT.....I give the dude credit for doing it.....Bonez
Reply:You are using a Lawn Mower engine powered unit when you should use a v-8 Engine.You need a Dynasty Tigrunner package  or Syncrowave 351 and training by a seasoned TIG WELDER
Reply:Originally Posted by MetalSculptorYou are using a Lawn Mower engine powered unit when you should use a v-8 Engine.You need a Dynasty Tigrunner package  or Syncrowave 351 and training by a seasoned TIG WELDER
Reply:TX RedNeck (Gretchen Wilson Rules !!!!)I am a hold an accredited college degree in the Science of Welding, Certified and Proficient in the TIG, MIG, Stick, High Pressure Pipe Welding Certs, Structural Steel Certs, GAS welding/cutting, Electron Beam, Plasma cutting, Plasma Welding during the period of time starting from 1975.  I am a Sales Engineer/Class room/Hands on Instructor for the Welding Industry and train students how to weld and sell these supplies and I have a Metal Sculpture/Metal Fabication shop.My shop consists of Two Hypertherm MAX 900 Plasma Cutters.  One is for Hand Held operation, the other is on a KN Aronson IK600 Plasma/Oxy Fuel Cutting table fully computerized W/Burney 2.5 computer and PC interfaced for Autocad drawing capabilities,  MillerMatic 200 with dual headfeeder and Prince spoolgun interface for aluminum.silicon bronze, stailess, mild steel welding, Miller Dynasty300 Tigrunner, Syncrowave 351 with all the goodies on it, Trailblazer 302 Gas Drive welder LN25 voltage sensing feeder, Maxstar 200, Sp135 and 175, Jetline ZB200 Turntable, Scotchman Ironworker, Magdrill, Metal Lathe, Mill, KN Aronson Handy Auto cutting torch, Cold wire feeder, Break, roller, huge one inch thick 8' x 4' work/layout/jig table. The Major Welding equipement manufacturers have me test future products that you may buy. Oh.  I had the factory reps show me how to use the tools I have bought with CASH from Artwork Jobs to make sure I got trained on each item properly, then I read the Owners Manual.I don't owe any money on my tools, they were paid for from the welding jobs I've done.  Throw in a 2001 Chevy Z71 extended long bed pick with lumber rack and tool box.  That's paid for too with my seasoned welding experience.And My Seasoned Welding Experience has paid for the House in Sunny San Diego, California.Want Training ?Last edited by MetalSculptor; 12-08-2005 at 01:00 AM.
Reply:MetalSculptor, I know this is a wide open question but; I do want to learn tig. What can you recommend? I have keys to the shop and its only 10min away. I can practice anytime(except 8-430  M-F) I've been welding since early 70's but never had the chance to learn. Can you help me out? thanks........tim
Reply:Metal,  thank you.  now with with all this experience please give advice and pointers to those who are asking.  It would do much better than to be told to seek advice elsewhere.  ThnksCHRISIF it Catches...Let it Burn
Reply:I am sure the answer for many here is:Welding, sure.  Marketing, no way.Smithboy...if it ain't broke, you ain't tryin'.
Reply:Smith,  experience and knowledge is only as good if its shared.  In the end one day you will be gone and it dont matter where youre goin, you cant take that info with you.CHRISIF it Catches...Let it Burn
Reply:As for the goods and services you (metalsculptor) offer...represent...whatever...You could just say it once, that you offer these services and folks will know.  If someone asks later, you could inform or remind them of it, without using up all the hard drive space on the server with your ads.  Chris also sells his services.  Others do to, and occasionally get work from contacts here.  The trade forum is for stuff like that.  I think I can speak for most folks here when I say, feel free to use it.  But, the rest of the forum is for discussion, not for pushy used car salesman replies to every possible subject.  Calm down, slow down, let us enjoy your art and let's talk about welding.Smithboy...if it ain't broke, you ain't tryin'.
Reply:When many suspect they have found a pile of dung, it is the wise man who sees compost.
Reply:Chris,I agree completely.  Knowledge that is kept secret is eventually lost.  I am glad to see that MetalSculptor has finally made a move to provide some substance to the forum.  We now know a bit about him.  He is weldor, an artist and a teacher.  MetalSculptor, Just out of curiosity, were do you teach (what school)? or, are is it mostly freelance?  Do you have any of your stuff pictured on a website?  I honestly am interested.  I live in a small city in GA and we have a fairly well known artist (Gordon Chandler) that does metal sculptures out of mostly found objects (nothing specific).  His art has a definate industrial and sometimes Oriental tinge to it, but his stuff is very attractive, and LARGE and HEAVY.  You can google him and view some of his work.  It's really interesting to see how he takes objects that are very dissimilar and sees a form in it.  He might make a gigantic bust of a man out of old thread mill spindle holders or an enoumous jackstone from old oxygen bottles.  His stuff is always fun and eyecatching.  What kinds of stuff do you like to do?Smithboy...if it ain't broke, you ain't tryin'.
Reply:Econotig??? .....OK I admit to being forced to use one. They do fine for materials 18 to 12 gauge. Weld quality decreases the further outside this range you get. Yes, it will weld outside this range. I have welded down to 22 gauge and up to 5/16 with one, but it is difficult to get quality results.This was and econotig discussion right?Last edited by WTFnOOb; 12-13-2005 at 06:17 PM.