Busted Bucket

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Hi Guys:I'm a nooby to the forum trying to scratch up enuff learning to fix a backhoe bucket.I haven't been able to find a thread that talks about this so I thought I'd ask direct.I've got a Case bucket with a 'chip' missing about 6" x 8" along the tooth edge. My first question is how I go about patching in a new piece.Would any kind of high carbon steel do? T-1? What prepping should I do? Bevel the new piece? Bevel the new and the edge of the existing steel?I'm using a Lincoln tombstone AC.Should I use 6011 for a root and 7018 for the cap? Should there be a gap all around the patch and the bucket before I tack? Should...hell,can some of you old hands just tell someone who doesn't know what they're doing the best way of tackling this job.If I fix it right,it'll make explaining to my wife why I just had to buy an arc welder a lot easier.Thanks to anyone who helps out.would any kind
Reply:A514 steel also known as T1 is the material I beleive yoiu need to use.  I believe an E-11018 would be rod of choice.  I would probably stick to a 3/32" rod if I were you.  First thing ID do,  is to purchase a little of this material if possible.  The T1.  This is a strapping material. Obviousy there were stresses on this bucket.  Second,  Id weld the crack up with 11018.  Id runa root pass with 6011 on one side.  Clean it up good.  Then Id V the back out real good and start with the 11018.  After doing several fills,  Id take a break to grind out the 6011 weld, and you can fill in with 11018 on that side as well.  Then Id weld the whole thing up with 11018 and grind the side down I would be the back strap on.  I guess Its up to you which side, I would think the inside would work.  Dont see why not.  You want the strap to cover the entire weld and the HAZ.  Then ID put the T1 on and weld it up as well.  I would maintain a minimum preheat of 70degrees.  Its winter and all so you really ought to keep the temps up on this job.  Its gonna make thngs a lot easier anyway.  I think you should be safe witout the strap, but I think adding the strapping would add a lot of strength to what was apparently overstressed.  You can also contact case  and they may give you a better approach.  Is this for your own personal use?   If so,  its your call how to do this.  However, you will, IMHO need 11018.  I woudlnt do this job witout it.  Only get as much as youll need for the job...dont get a big box.   Dont open it till youre ready to start welding,  its a low hydrogen rod and is suseptable to moisture which would rasise the hydrogen level, basically bad deal.  Good luck            Ive not much experience in this, but Ive been around it in the past.  Ive done this before on bucket and dint use a strap.  It worked.  However, others Ive talked to neede or did use the strap.  I really dont know what sle to say.  More I think, you prolly should contact Case for the preheats.   Im thinking the bucket thickness might need like 250 degress or somethning.  I really dont remember.  You will want ot have that right or the assembly could crack.  You can ask them regarding the strapping to.   Ive been told they are real good abotu giving information regarding repairs.  Best of luck to you CHRISIF it Catches...Let it Burn
Reply:I've repaired , or replaced bucket lips many times, using the methods that Tx described. I'd use a little more preheat...300-400 dg., and some post heat. slow cooling will help avoid cracks.  T-1 is not the best for a lip though... not enough abrasion resistance. Great for repairs though, and welds good, with few cracking probs. use 11018 rod, and well..... tx said it pertty good.Last edited by BBchevy396; 01-10-2006 at 04:27 PM.We need to protect Freedom of Speech, otherwise, how would we know who the A-holes (like me) are.
Reply:oops, I forgot to ask.... is the actual bucket lip broken, or is it the bolt on hardend steel cutting edge? if it is the cutting edge... forget it. buy a new one, I've never had successful welds on those. never heard of anyone else either.. anyone?We need to protect Freedom of Speech, otherwise, how would we know who the A-holes (like me) are.
Reply:Thanks T.Red,especially for the rod recommendation.I'm trying to get this 580K in shape for a spring sale...for some reason people don't want a machine with only half a bucket!Go figure.I wasn't clear about one thing.The 6' x 8" piece is missing,gone,kerflooey so I'd be looking at patching in a whole new piece.Also.I don't think a strap would impress a buyer.I'd like to put it back together so it looks like someone knew what they were doing.Shouldn't a new piece properly welded put the bucket back to its original psi strength?Does it matter how many passes I make to fill the gap?Low carbon rod gives me an edge as far as porosity but I don't want to heat the area so it loses temper.How many lbs. of the 11018 would the repair take?Can you,or anyone,walk me through the joint design?What nimbus ever said welding was easy?
Reply:Originally Posted by BBchevy396oops, I forgot to ask.... is the actual bucket lip broken, or is it the bolt on hardend steel cutting edge? if it is the cutting edge... forget it. buy a new one, I've never had successful welds on those. never heard of anyone else either.. anyone?
Reply:Hey hotsacks, welcome Personally,I liked all the stuff in your first post. I don't think anyone mentioned it yet but you need to square off the broken part of the mold board with a torch first. The piece of t-1 that your putting in doesnt need a killer bevel on it either. It's what, maybe 5/8"-3/4"? Your bevel , after fit up, should only be about half inch or so. The 1/8" root opening sounds good but there too, no need to be perfect. Thats what the root pass will take care of. I think youd be ok with 1/8 lo-hy with a bit of pre-heat. Just make sure the part is true to the rest of the bucket/board. Don't want any problem bolting the cutting edge up. You can get bolt on or weld on edges from the Case dealer in your area( did that sound like a commercial slogan? ) Have fun!
Reply:6'x8" or 6"x8" "chip"?
Reply:Originally Posted by tapwelder6'x8" or 6"x8" "chip"?
Reply:I can't offer any advice other than the fact that I've seen a lot more posts about welding heavy equipment over on the millermotorsports.com ask andy forums.-Heath
Reply:Can you post a photo? It says a thousand words...The best way maybe to replace the whole cutting edge, sometimes this is a lot quicker and easier than shaping a piece into it.As for preheating, I would go somewhere around 120-150 degrees C and make sure you heat a good sized area.Stephen
Reply:Use your propane weed burner if you dont have a big rosebud. Saw that on another site.
Reply:ive been fabbing snowplow equipment forever, so yeah ive redone a few buckets in my day. The only advice,other than the fine advice already given, i can really give here is to look for a new/lightly used cutting edge. Save your self the grinding time and the headaches of welding that small section it. I dont know your abilitys but i know mine and even though I know i could rebuild the mole i know that buying and bolting is aways easier. Just my 2 cents...
Reply:Hello hotstacks Imo i would still preheat between 400 and 500 degrees it could save you the head aches of cracks and having to grind the entire crack out I would preheat then weld an inch or so then check heat with temp stick heat back up then weld a little more (ect...) make sure you get all the flux out. t-1 is a tool steel and most tool steels air harden I'm not sure about t-1 dont have the info in front of me but taking your time and doing a good pre heat and also a post heat and let it cool sloooowly along with the other info on this thread you should have good results. (this is just my opinion hope it helps)
Reply:On that q of how many lbs of 11018....Id go wiht the smallest box you can fetch.  I would say you wont need more than 5 lbs but you might need more than  lb, im trying to visualize in my head what a lb would be liuke verus 5 hmmm.....I guess look at the prices as sometimes youll find that they price it where to go with any more than two-one lb boxes youre better off getting a 5lb'r and just wasting some.  Of course its not a total waste.  Ive used mine many times on nonstructural jobs after they were no longer dry.  Just dont let em get all wet or nohting.  Maybe get a dry box....for stick rods..them blue tubes.  Then put a lil packet of that stuff they package things in that suppose to eat up the moisture.  IF it Catches...Let it Burn
Reply:The welding thing,it's addictive,right T.Red.?I've been in a welding supply maybe twice in my life.I've spent the last few days doing nothing but looking at all the toys on welding sites.One item I saw was a plastic rod container for about 12 bucks.Would that be good to keep 7018 dry?
Reply:is it sealable?   pm me a link ill tell you if its what im talking of...but more than likely yes it is what im talking about   tehre not real cheap but they help a lotIF it Catches...Let it Burn
Reply:and yes weldin gis addictive  its part of the tool addiction   only worseIF it Catches...Let it Burn