Wire or Stick for off road kart

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I got plans for a mini sand rail/off road go kart from www.desertkarts.com. It will be powered by an old snowmobile engine and I'll be using 1 1/4" or 1 1/2'' round tubing for the frame and suspension.I have a Miller Bobcat 250 and been welding for hobby and work off and on for 20+ yrs. so I have the skill to build this go kart. I'm just wondering about the tools, if I should go get me a wire welder or if my Bobcat would work welding this together? I know stick gets hotter than a wire feed does and wanted to know, will the extra heat from the stick welder effect the strength of the metal in the frame?I also need to get a tube bender and have seen and read that many people build their own tube benders, I think that's a route I would like to take as well any ideas on plans for a bender would be appreciated as well.It'll be a month or so before I get started but will take some pics as I go and post them.Last edited by BigD; 03-08-2006 at 08:28 PM.
Reply:I wire-feed welder with gas would probably make the process of tacking and welding go more quickly, however if you've never MIG welded you'll have to learn how to do it properly before you begin welding your kart.  It's easy to create a pretty MIG weld that has poor penetration.  Fortunately, it's not too difficult to create a pretty MIG weld with good penetration.However, if you're a competent stick welder and capable of welding on thinner materials, then you could just as well use that process.  If the joint is properly done, there should be no difference in strength between either process.-Heath
Reply:Originally Posted by halbritt  If the joint is properly done, there should be no difference in strength between either process.
Reply:However, if you're a competent stick welder and capable of welding on thinner materials, then you could just as well use that process. If the joint is properly done, there should be no difference in strength between either process.
Reply:BigDI do however want a wire welder badly and I'll get one some day soon but probable not before I'm ready to start on the kart. I know it would much nicer looking and way easier to clean but when you are hauling *** and having a blast riding who cares what the welds look like as long as they don't break
Reply:Originally Posted by BigDGreat! That's what I needed to know.I do however want a wire welder badly and I'll get one some day soon but probable not before I'm ready to start on the kart. .
Reply:It's not that I think the weld it self would be weak, I know I can weld it fine. It's the change in the metalergy that I dont know much about when it comes to the stregth of a vehicle frame like a go kart.I did start looking last night at wire welders and since I will probable be useing it for hobby projects like this and my Bobcat for work or larger projects, what about a cheap Hobart like the one here. http://store.cyberweld.com/hoha125.htmlWhat is the difference in a 125 and say a 140 or 180 except for $287 and slightly larger weld? Would the extra $300 be worth getting the bigger welder for hobby work?http://store.cyberweld.com/hobmigwel.html
Reply:the biggest difference that i see at first glance between the 125/140 and the 180 is that the 180 is 230v. and the 125/140 are 115v. if you dont have access to 220v in your shop you should look into getting the largest 110v you can, or as some will say wire your shop for 220. another thing i noticed is that the machines all seem to be tapped (4 settings, not continuous) which may work fine for what your looking to do with it, but i payed the extra for a Lincoln with continuous settings. and its an option that i think is well worth it.as for the machines themselves i have no experience, and im sure others will chime in with their (more) experience
Reply:Originally Posted by standlesHonestly I don't see how your going to weld a cart frame properly with the bobcat.  You concerns of weakening the frame are reason enough to get wire.
Reply:Sorry guys I thought I was being obvious with the jester symbol.I was not implying that bobcat welds (metalury or not) would be weaker than wire.   I was only providing an excuse for him to get the wire feeder.I will try to be more obvious in the future with my tounge-in-cheek comments.StevenPS.For what its worth I went with the lincoln SP135.  It was a 110volt and I bought it for portability and not having to run a new outlet.  I have wished a good many times I would have run the outlet and got a higher amp 220volt machine.
Reply:Originally Posted by BigDIt's not that I think the weld it self would be weak, I know I can weld it fine. It's the change in the metalergy that I dont know much about when it comes to the stregth of a vehicle frame like a go kart.
Reply:Sorry about missing the joke.  I tend to have a pretty dry wit myself, so I don't know what's wrong.  I'll thwack my sarcasm meter a couple times and see if that helps.One could use a wire feeder on the Bobcat, but it's a CC machine, which isn't necessarilly the best for GMAW. I believe smithboy has a voltage-sensing feeder, so he might be able to offer some insight.  The small 120/240 units from Lincoln, Miller, and Hobart seem to be pretty comparable.  Each has strengths and weaknesses, but based on what I've read, they're all pretty similar in performance.  In my mind, a 120V unit is handy, but limited, and a 240V unit is actually genuinely useful.  Personally, I'm spoiled by the arc on an inverter and really want a Passport.  It's unfortunate that they aren't cheap or even reasonable enough for an impulse purchase.  If I had one, I'd probably take it with me everywhere I went.  If someone made a small CV inverter supply, I'd just use that and my spoolgun as a portable welder.-Heath
Reply:Would the extra $300 be worth getting the bigger welder for hobby work?
Reply:Type the word ***ted, as in ***ted line and it gets filtered.That is D  O  T  T  E  D......
Reply:Ok, so I was playing baseball and I got ***ted in the head.
Reply:I wrote the word a-n-e-c-d-o-t-a-l the other day and it came up as asterisks.  Odd.-Heath
Reply:Originally Posted by SandyIf you think you'd like to eventually go towards body panel/sheet metal work in a big way and use your stick for all the heavier stuff (1/8th and up), I'd go with one of the 140 amp 120 volt outfits with gas. If you'd like to leave your bobcat set idle just a little more and move towards the convenience of of mig then I'd get something in the range to the 175 to 180 amp 230 volt rigs.
Reply:This looks like a good machine from Miller it ia a Dual Voltage Input that easily plugs into either 115 or 230 Volt power.http://store.cyberweld.com/millermatic300.htmlLike to here what ya'll think.
Reply:That is interesting! Are you saying if I go with the smaller welder I would be able to weld body panels and do sheet metal work? And that the larger wire welders wouldn't do that?
Reply:I've looked into the DVI and frankly am not impressed.    It does not appear to be a inverter based machine like the Passport and frankly doesn't have the duty cycle of the 210.    It doesn't even seem to compete well with the Passport.     Apparently Millers only goal with the DVI was to produce a roll around with 115/220 VAC input.  This is, in my opinion, a tradgey; Miller has some of the best inverter technology going, they really need to get that technology into a MillerMatic.    In any event if somebody is thinking about the DVI I would want to hear a little bit about why.   Many would be better off simply getting a MM210 or a passport if needing more capacity.    If the need to run on 115 volts is needed might as wel get a MM135 and save a bundle.Maybe I'm off base here but with todays inveter technology Miller could have produced a much nice multi voltage input MillerMatic.    Yeah a bit more expensive but what are they going to do wait for Lincoln to produce the machine they should have produced!Dave Originally Posted by BigDThis looks like a good machine from Miller it ia a Dual Voltage Input that easily plugs into either 115 or 230 Volt power.http://store.cyberweld.com/millermatic300.htmlLike to here what ya'll think.
Reply:Originally Posted by SandyWell there isn't really a clear dividing line between what they will and won't do, but each leap in class has it's sweet zone. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>.snippedTough call. Lot of thinking and no clear answers..  >>>>>>>>>>>>snippedRight now I've got a MM175 and am really really thinking bigger.
Reply:Hey bro,...Just my .02....make sure you can weld in all positions with stick cause, you´ll probably need that skill for making the sand rail, unless you got some fellas helping you out, and it is small so you can turn it upside down etc...Migging it´s a lot easier for welding in all positions, and can give you an advantage...in time and in effortelse, if you can stick in all positions,you got my respect and my opinion is that you stick it and use the money for something else.
Reply:Originally Posted by elvergonHey bro,...Just my .02....make sure you can weld in all positions with stick cause, you´ll probably need that skill for making the sand rail.......................if you can stick in all positions,you got my respect and my opinion is that you stick it and use the money for something else.
Reply:to get back to the orig question...whatever you feel most comfortable with will be your best bet...a stick welder is just as good as a mig..as long as its not a fluxcore wire machine for what you want to do.... you will need clean welds for a strong chassis..have fun...zap!
Reply:Inverters are an electronigs solution to producing low volatage at high amperages as opposed to the older technology that makes use of transformers and a limited amount of electronics.  The advantage with inverters is that you can put a lot of welding power into a small light weight package.   This technology can also provide better arc control.   Another advantage is wider voltage input and at the same time lower current draw for a given weld current.   Thus the units are more energy efficient.Now don't take this to mean that transformer base MIG welders are useles technology.    That is not the case, they are in many ways as reliable as a brick and have the same effect as that of a brick when dropped on the foot .    The problem is that lack of portabilty that the larger mig welders have.Take the common "180" amp class mig welder, in the portable cases that they come in, and imagine an inverter built into the case.    One can either reuduce the weight of the unit for the same output or increase the ouput and keep the same weight.In any event I see inverter technology as being usefull for this type of machine, that is portable mig welders, as providing more performance for a given physical size machine.   There are other improvements that electronic control over the power supply can provide to the weld arc also, the usefulness of which would vary depending on application.    I still haven't decided if the passport is the welder for me to buy, I'm stil thinking used, but I can't help but to be impressed with the technology and capability of that little package.ThanksDave Originally Posted by BigDI can stick it in all positions and then some.  Not sure what "inverter technology" is but that PASSPORT is very tempting no doubt, I almost got one right after I got my Bobcat. So what are the differences in the MM210 & PASSPORT other than size and portability.I have the passport amnd am very impressed with it.I need the portability and also the ability to do 5/16 and it has both.Awsome machine is all I can say.Nobody moves nobody gets hurt(safety first)millematic passportmiller 375 plasmacutter